Hell.

[Soulgazer]

*blank*

 

[Timothew]

I don't get this. You're citing translations of a version of the bible you don't know whether to accept or not.

And then you're something like your own pope and will declare infallibly which texts to accept???

I cited Exodus. I cited Matthew. What's the problem?
I'm something like my own pope? No, you are my pope. The "pope" idea is not biblical. I follow the teaching of Jesus Christ and the Apostles. You brought up the book of Exodus as if the burning bush proved something about eternal torture. I looked at the language of the book of Exodus to help define a word, katakausei. That doesn't make me "my own pope", it makes me my own reader.

What is the point of calling my "my own pope" anyway? Namecalling?
Is this your pope?

 

[Soulgazer]

The Bible also says: there is no meaning to life.

God tests humans to show them they are like the animals.

Animals and humans all wind up in the same place.

 

[x141]

Yes to a certain extent. Whenever you go beyond the bible to things that are not really associated with it or have a negative inference in it and accept them as "good" you can be headed down the path of gnosticism. As for the mysticism etc., I have come across many what I call "spiritual" Christians that instead of standing on the bible first and foremost they end up standing on what they "feel" in the spirit and at times forget to test those spirits with sound biblical understanding. If you query them about their knowledge of biblical doctrines they will be already wrong on many fronts or may just be outright ignorant of what the bible truly teaches. The fact she believes in oneness is a sign that her theology has issues already. The oneness crowd I have come across tends to desire a higher emphasis on spiritual gifts than biblical knowledge IMO.

The Bible does teach this one Father, faith, baptism etc. where God is all in all. Issue's of blood are because we do not believe that the Father who was in Christ and now is in us through Christ do not understand the name of the Father rather attach to it a perception of our own making. I'm not saying I see, in fact the more I see the less I become.

Jesus did not come in his own name but in his Father's. This is a servant, the soul that is the servant takes no thought, literially. This mind is in obedience to one/Father. The greatest is the servant to all because he does not come in his own name. This is to me, to do Love. For God so loved the world, God was in Christ reconciling the world, therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life. No greater love. The life laid down is a soul under the altar.

 

[x141]

Jesus statement that all those that had come before Him were as thieves and robbers. We reject the idea of accurate prophesying after the Baptist, for "the head of prophesy was cut off with John"."

To me Jesus became this lie on the cross, became sin, embodied in the statement, Father why have you forsaken me.

 

[Soulgazer]

The Bible does teach this one Father, faith, baptism etc. where God is all in all. Issue's of blood are because we do not believe that the Father who was in Christ and now is in us through Christ do not understand the name of the Father rather attach to it a perception of our own making. I'm not saying I see, in fact the more I see the less I become.

Jesus did not come in his own name but in his Father's. This is a servant, the soul that is the servant takes no thought, literially. This mind is in obedience to one/Father. The greatest is the servant to all because he does not come in his own name. This is to me, to do Love. For God so loved the world, God was in Christ reconciling the world, therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life. No greater love. The life laid down is a soul under the altar.

I have no problem with people stating what they believe and why; It's when they start implying that other denominations are "evil" that I find offensive.

 

[Soulgazer]

To me Jesus became this lie on the cross, became sin, embodied in the statement, Father why have you forsaken me.

To us, His Divine self that was represented by the dove at his baptism ascended, leaving His human self to die alone, as Divinity can not be killed.

Paul said that those who claimed that Jesus was anathema were anti-Christ; This does not deny the sacrifice, but anathema in this usage means to be unavailable, or sacrificed to a god. So we accept Jesus as the passover lamb for the Jews, as faith in the passover was intrinsic to Judaism, but believe that Jesus was the very nature of God, and never demanded blood, as per Jeremiah. So "Christ" did not die,(though the flesh named "Jesus" did) but was the sacrifice at the foundation of the world, when it was decided that He would enter this illusion and show us the way out.


I never tire of hearing others beliefs and why they believe them; I am just sharing. In no way am I saying your belief system is "wrong" and ours is "right".

Christian Gnostics are very dualistic, maintaining a separation between flesh and spirit. However, we do acknowledge that Jesus was called a "Samaritan", which faith has a foundation of "oneness".


As to the idea of Hell, in our Pistis Sophia, it is a place of punishment until a soul can be purified and returned to (usually a lower place) in heaven.

 

[he-man]

I cited Exodus. I cited Matthew. What's the problem?
You brought up the book of Exodus as if the burning bush proved something about eternal torture. I looked at the language of the book of Exodus to help define a word, katakausei.

Indeed,
Mt 3:12, Lk 3:17 he/she/it-will-BURN-COMPLETELY, you(sg)-will-be-BURN-ed-COMPLETELY (classical)
G2618 κατακαύσει he will burn up; burn completely
LXX katakaiw 2618 To incinerate, burn up, consume, scorch, cremate.Ex 3:2,3
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

12:10
29:14,34
32:20
34:13
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Psa 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
Psa 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
Psa 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

 

[Timothew]

Thanks He-man. You know why we go to the greek. We are trying to understand what the text of the bible says.

 

[x141]

To us, His Divine self that was represented by the dove at his baptism ascended, leaving His human self to die alone, as Divinity can not be killed.

Paul said that those who claimed that Jesus was anathema were anti-Christ; This does not deny the sacrifice, but anathema in this usage means to be unavailable, or sacrificed to a god. So we accept Jesus as the passover lamb for the Jews, as faith in the passover was intrinsic to Judaism, but believe that Jesus was the very nature of God, and never demanded blood, as per Jeremiah. So "Christ" did not die,(though the flesh named "Jesus" did) but was the sacrifice at the foundation of the world, when it was decided that He would enter this illusion and show us the way out.

I never tire of hearing others beliefs and why they believe them; I am just sharing. In no way am I saying your belief system is "wrong" and ours is "right".

Christian Gnostics are very dualistic, maintaining a separation between flesh and spirit. However, we do acknowledge that Jesus was called a "Samaritan", which faith has a foundation of "oneness".


As to the idea of Hell, in our Pistis Sophia, it is a place of punishment until a soul can be purified and returned to (usually a lower place) in heaven.

I agree, God does not die neither is he born, virgin's don't give birth they are delivered, this is the Truth as it is in Christ, I change not, no shadow of turning.

If we judge we are condemed, judgment becomes a snare to us. This snare binds us to the earth therefore our heavens are bound. This is the judgment that is not true, a lie. Not saying what they did was right or wrong, this reality is happening in everyone. Our blindness keeps us from seeing this One Truth that will be/is/was before, all in all.

To me everything that is without is a lie and my woman the habitation of everything that is foul, every unclean bird..

 

[Timothew]

I agree, God does not die neither is he born, virgin's don't give birth they are delivered, this is the Truth as it is in Christ, I change not, no shadow of turning.

If we judge we are condemed, judgment becomes a snare to us. This snare binds us to the earth therefore our heavens are bound. This is the judgment that is not true, a lie. Not saying what they did was right or wrong, this reality is happening in everyone. Our blindness keeps us from seeing this One Truth that will be/is/was before, all in all.

To me everything that is without is a lie and my woman the habitation of everything that is foul, every unclean bird..

I don't know what you two are talking about. It must be true because I don't understand a word of it! I'm a barbarian or something. I believe that I live while I'm alive and when I die, I'll be dead. If I want eternal life after I die, I will have to be raised to life to get it. There is no eternal "life" for the dead, only for those who are alive.

 

[Soulgazer]

I don't know what you two are talking about. .

Ah, read Ecclesiastes.

" 7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

 

[Timothew]

Ah, read Ecclesiastes.

" 7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

That is true, but it isn't the end of the story. I'll go and die one day, and I won't know anything - but Jesus will raise me back to life on the last day.

 

[Soulgazer]

That is true, but it isn't the end of the story. I'll go and die one day, and I won't know anything - but Jesus will raise me back to life on the last day.

Me too----or not.

 

[x141]

That is true, but it isn't the end of the story. I'll go and die one day, and I won't know anything - but Jesus will raise me back to life on the last day.

That's exactly what Martha said to Jesus, just like the spirit that cried out, have you come to torment me before the time. It's a lie and not the Truth, this Truth as it is in Christ. The answer to the first question, is this One who asked the question. Where art thou? As long as we say I see our sin remains. I'm looking for that which my soul must become desolate to find, the treasure in the field.

 

[Evergreen48]

That is true, but it isn't the end of the story. I'll go and die one day, and I won't know anything - but Jesus will raise me back to life on the last day.

Hey Tim.

You know Jesus taught that whoever is living and believes on him would never die. Why would you think you are going to die one of these days, since obviously you do believe on Jesus. And why would you need to be raised back to life if you never died to start with?


John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

John 11:25. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Timothew]

That's exactly what Martha said to Jesus, just like the spirit that cried out, have you come to torment me before the time. It's a lie and not the Truth, this Truth as it is in Christ. The answer to the first question, is this One who asked the question. Where art thou? As long as we say I see our sin remains. I'm looking for that which my soul must become desolate to find, the treasure in the field.

The treasure is Jesus, He was right in front of Martha. Her faith was in the resurrection on the last day, and Jesus corrected her. He said (in effect) "I'll be doing the resurrecting." But now, since Jesus ascended and sits at the right hand of God the Father and won't return to do any more resurrecting until the last day, it is proper to wait until the last day and trust in Jesus to resurrect us. When he says "Tim, come out!" I will, just like Lazarus did.

 

[Timothew]

Hey Tim.

You know Jesus taught that whoever is living and believes on him would never die. Why would you think you are going to die one of these days, since obviously you do believe on Jesus. And why would you need to be raised back to life if you never died to start with?


John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

John 11:25. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Because these are promises that will be fulfilled when Jesus Christ returns.
I'm sure that you know a lot of believers. I'm sure that some of these have died, so you can't really say that believers never die. Once they are resurrected they will never die, just as Jesus said.

 

[x141]

I don't know what you two are talking about. It must be true because I don't understand a word of it! I'm a barbarian or something. I believe that I live while I'm alive and when I die, I'll be dead. If I want eternal life after I die, I will have to be raised to life to get it. There is no eternal "life" for the dead, only for those who are alive.

All Life comes from this Father. The name that is more precious than gold is the name Jesus came in. This name is this Life/Father/Truth.

Jerusalem will not allow us to be gathered into one, therefore her house is left desolate. Jerusalem, this great city, spiritually called Sodom and Eygpt, where the Lord was crucified.

 

[x141]

The treasure is Jesus, He was right in front of Martha. Her faith was in the resurrection on the last day, and Jesus corrected her. He said (in effect) "I'll be doing the resurrecting." But now, since Jesus ascended and sits at the right hand of God the Father and won't return to do any more resurrecting until the last day, it is proper to wait until the last day and trust in Jesus to resurrect us. When he says "Tim, come out!" I will, just like Lazarus did.

Not an, I'll be doing it, but I am it.