Hell.

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

Agreed.

But what does life mean?

(I agree that the punishment is eternal, not that the punishing is eternal)

definition of "life"

1.
a. The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
b. The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.
2. Living organisms considered as a group: plant life; marine life.
3. A living being, especially a person: an earthquake that claimed hundreds of lives.
4. The physical, mental, and spiritual experiences that constitute existence: the artistic life of a writer.
5.
a. The interval of time between birth and death: She led a good, long life.
b. The interval of time between one's birth and the present: has had hay fever all his life.
c. A particular segment of one's life: my adolescent life.
d. The period from an occurrence until death: elected for life; paralyzed for life.
e. Slang A sentence of imprisonment lasting till death.
6. The time for which something exists or functions: the useful life of a car.
7. A spiritual state regarded as a transcending of corporeal death.
8. An account of a person's life; a biography.
9. Human existence, relationships, or activity in general: real life; everyday life.
10.
a. A manner of living: led a hard life.
b. A specific, characteristic manner of existence. Used of inanimate objects: "Great institutions seem to have a life of their own, independent of those who run them" (New Republic).
c. The activities and interests of a particular area or realm: musical life in New York.
11.
a. A source of vitality; an animating force: She's the life of the show.
b. Liveliness or vitality; animation: a face that is full of life.
12.
a. Something that actually exists regarded as a subject for an artist: painted from life.
b. Actual environment or reality; nature.

 

[Timothew]

We have been over and over this. You cannot refute eternal torment.

The wages of sin is death. There, the bible refutes you.

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

BTW, the bible never states "eternal death", but "eternal destruction".

destruction:

1.
a. The act of destroying.
b. The condition of having been destroyed.
2. The cause or means of destroying

Destruction is the concept of damage to an object, system, or being. It may apply either as a measurable degree of damage up to and including a state beyond use or repair, or it may indicate a state wherein such damage is occurring and continuing. Something 'being destroyed' is in a 'state of destruction.'


Galatians 6:8
Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

 

[dollarsbill]

The wages of sin is death. There, the bible refutes you.

Will Satan be tormented forever?

 

[Timothew]

So you disagree with the bible and say that the wages of sin are not death?
Isn't the bible the Word of God? Are you comfortable disagreeing with God?

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

So you disagree with the bible and say that the wages of sin are not death?
Isn't the bible the Word of God? Are you comfortable disagreeing with God?

You chastise dollarsbill for not answering your question. Now you don't answer his.......?

 

[Timothew]

You chastise dollarsbill for not answering your question. Now you don't answer his.......?

You chastise me for not answering his question when he never answers mine?

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

You chastise me for not answering his question when he never answers mine?

Matthew 7:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 7:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

OK, I will answer his question, and I won't expect him to answer my question, (what is life?) since answering it would destroy his doctrine.

According to the bible, Satan will be destroyed. Satan will not be tormented forever. DB has seen the scripture proving this.

 

[dollarsbill]

According to the bible, Satan will be destroyed. Satan will not be tormented forever. DB has seen the scripture proving this.

A BIG HUH?

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Timothew]

A BIG HUH?

Why are you like this? Why can't you discuss this without these kinds of digs?

In Ezekiel 28 there is a prophecy that refers to Satan.

"17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

I know you have seen this before, Jon pointed it out to you, so "A BIG HUH?" is very disingenuous, unless you really don't remember this.

 

[dollarsbill]

In Ezekiel 28 there is a prophecy that refers to Satan.

It also refers to the ruler of Tyre.

Ezekiel 28:2 (NASB)
2 "Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because your heart is lifted up And you have said, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods In the heart of the seas'; Yet you are a man and not God, Although you make your heart like the heart of God—

I reduced you to ashes on the ground

NASB says "on the Earth". In no way does it say what you are implying.

 

[Lysimachus]

God will burn humans for "a long period of time" but not forever? Hmmm.

If eternal doesn't mean forever then does that mean 'eternal life' doesn't mean forever?

Correct, the term "for ever and ever" is more especially pointed toward the Satan, Beast, False Prophet, and Harlot Woman.

Everyone will burn up, however, according to their works. Different lengths of time, depending on knowledge rejected. Depending on how much they knew, and how much light they spurned.

Some will burn up instantly, but some, like Hitler, will burn for a much longer period of time.

One passage to support this concept is found in Luke 12:46-49:

"(46)The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (47) And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. (48) But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (49) I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? (Luke 12:46-49)
​

In other words, those who fail t prepare themselves based on what they knew, they will receive stripes accordingly. But, those who did NOT KNOW, yet still did things worthy of stripes, will beaten with FEW stripes.

Doesn't this sound fair?

Imagine a brutal tyrant murderer, lining up people and shooting them in cold blood, or torturing them. They despised God and everything, and committed many crimes. But now compare this person with a little boy who did no harm to anyone, yet did not give his heart to God. Yet he was kind to everyone, but did not want to accept Jesus.

Does it makes sense that BOTH the brutal murderer and this 14 year old boy who, although did not hurt anyone and was kind to everyone yet did not get saved, will burn just as long?

Does it make sense?

Absolutely not. God is a fair God. People who committed known and atrocious sins will suffer accordingly. Those who did not know, yet still did not accept God's pleadings, cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but it would be wrong of God to punish them on the same level.

Everyone will burn in the Lake of Fire in length according to his works, according to his deeds.

 

[Lysimachus]

It also refers to the ruler of Tyre.

Ezekiel 28:2 (NASB)
2 "Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because your heart is lifted up And you have said, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods In the heart of the seas'; Yet you are a man and not God, Although you make your heart like the heart of God—
NASB says "on the Earth". In no way does it say what you are implying.

Satan is the King of Babylon, and he is also a symbol of the King of Tyre.

The Biblical authors used literal kings as "symbols" of Satan, but Satan was the primary subject being alluded to.

Everyone knows that the King of Tyre was not the "anointed cherub that covereth". The central focus is on Satan, who is the ultimate king of Paganism. Pagan kings were used constantly as symbols of the ultimate Pagan ruler, who is Satan, the author of all Babylonian empires.

One must understand their poetic imagery to drive a point home.

Without question, Satan will eventually be consumed to ashes. But he will burn longer than anyone, as he is the instigator and author of all sin, iniquity, evil and suffering.

 

[Lysimachus]

If eternal doesn't mean forever then does that mean 'eternal life' doesn't mean forever?

Eternal is as long as the confines of what you are in. Since God's "forever" lasts as long as God shall last, then this "eternal" never ends. He alone is "immortal". Since "forever" or "eternal" on earth is within the confines of mankind, who are mortal, then "eternal" and "forever" lastas as long as the duration is capable of reaching. Another way to look at it is, that "eternal fire" means, a fire that comes from an "eternal God". It is a heavenly fire. This same "eternal fire" came down and burned UP Sodom and Gomorrah. You can go visit their ashen remains today. The land is full of Sulfur.


The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, can mean simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. (To check in a concordance, look up the word "ever.") It is like the word "tall," which means something different in describing men, trees, or mountains. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." Jonah was in the belly of the whale "forever". In other words, 3 days and 3 nights felt like "forever" to Jonah. (See also Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, "forever" means "10 generations." In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalms 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out. The teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism and insanity than any other invention of the devil. It is slander upon the loving character of a tender, gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause.

 

[dollarsbill]

The teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism and insanity than any other invention of the devil.

Actually that's why I got saved, to escape Hell.

It is slander upon the loving character of a tender, gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause.

The same God who drowned everyone on Earth making them an example, also warned us of the eternal, unquenchable, everlasting and forever fire. Sorry, your argument doesn't float. Eternal is eternal. You can't use it one way and then another. It means forever just like it says.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[rturner76]

Revelation was a vision like a dream though. It's not meant to be taken literally but with a grain of salt. It almost didn't make it in the cannon. It moves around, skips ahead jumps back. Past present and future stuff is all distorted. John had been in that cave for a long time.

 

[dollarsbill]

Revelation was a vision like a dream though. It's not meant to be taken literally but with a grain of salt.

Do you take this literally?

Revelation 21:4 (NASB)
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.

 

[rturner76]

I think it is very poetic would be the best way to describe it. THere's no instructions or accounts of the lives of the Apostles so I'm not sure what to do with it. My Pastor said it's more for advanced studies.

EDIT: And that there's "Certain things in it But don't worry about it"

 

[Ronald]

About Hell

"Eternal" is an english word which comes from aeon or aeonios. It has variable meanings and is used to both describe temporal things that will pass away, God and his domain. Everlasting then really means age-lasting or age-during. So temporal things are described as lasting an age, a lifetime, generations, a epoch of time but with a finite existence. When aeon it is applied to God, his domain or our salvation then it means either without beginning or end or in our case, forward in time infinitely.
Hades and the Pit are part of the earth and the Lake of Fire will also be most likely on earth when God destroys earth in a fervent heat (2 Pet. 3:10) If you saw earth on fire from space it would look like the Gehenna of the OT.
Hell is not Hades, nor is it the Abyss or the Bottomless Pit, it is the Lake of Fire. Gehenna gives us an idea of what it will be like ... in the end times. Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire along with Satan, his demons and all other non-believers to be destroyed. But all former things will pass away including those which are a part of the earth. The new heaven and earth will have no darkness, evil, tears, pain and suffering.
Destroy and perish are two terms that are misunderstood as well. Can something be destroyed over and over again? No. Destroy or perish means what we understand it to mean, to put an end to, exterminate, once. It may last a period of time, but let's not change the meaning and assign an endless dimension to it. It's like creating an indestructible destruction, which is a contradictory concept. Burn a piece of paper once and that's it, likewise; the second death will be of both the soul and body -- destroyed, over and done with, no need to sustain it and for what, God's glory, vengence, or our joy. This is not the justice of God to sustain torment for an infinite amount of time. How could we live in joy and love knowing that our family members are suffering? My Dad may not make it, he's 80 and an aethiest, my brother believes in himself as the director of his own destiny and my Mom, the universal energy force. There's still hope, but my memory of them would have to be erased perminently along with every other sinner -- what purpose would that serve if we forgot where we came from and why Jesus died?

"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna."Matt. 10:28