Hell.

[Tzaousios]

"ABANDON ALL HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE" was supposedly
written on the gates there by Jesus...

I have no idea if that is true or not, however.
Come to think of it, I can't even recall where I first heard that.

Dante had that as the inscription above the gates of Hell in his Inferno portion of the Divine Comedy. That is where the phrase comes from.

 

[Ajax 777]

Dante had that as the inscription above the gates of Hell in his Inferno portion of the Divine Comedy. That is where the phrase comes from.

Right. Well, I knew it was either that or "MAD Magazine".

 

[Hupomone10]

Discuss.

Hell... I hope to avoid it as much as possible

 

[Noxot]

Right. Well, I knew it was either that or "MAD Magazine".

A+

 

[Ceridwen]

Given their state, non-believers wouldn't find heaven to be a desirable place for them in the next life. They would experience heaven as "hell." Likewise, when they will go to hell, they will feel like its home for them.

If you would enjoy being in a worship service, then you will enjoy being with Yahweh rather than Satan. If you would enjoy being in a sexual free-for-all, then you would enjoy being with Satan rather than Yahweh.

Everyone is going to go to a place that they will feel is heaven. God will allow you to choose the place you prefer, allowing you to exercise your freedom.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Given their state, non-believers wouldn't find heaven to be a desirable place for them in the next life. They would experience heaven as "hell." Likewise, when they will go to hell, they will feel like its home for them.

I can't speak for our Orthodox brothers and sisters here but I believe that's the orthodox perspective on hell. Essentially being in the presence of unending love and forgiveness, even though you don't want it and hate the source it's coming from. That's hell.

Thus it is the Church's spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God's splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light. ... those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (St. Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises) The Orthodox Church of America website

OCA - The Orthodox Faith - Volume IV - SpiritualityThe Kingdom of Heaven - Heaven and Hell

 

[ViaCrucis]

Scripture teaches that, in death, the state and/or condition of the wicked is one that is unpleasant. As such Scripture uses accepted imagery taken from the Jewish view: Namely that of Ge-Hinnom, literally the Valley of Hinnom that lay outside of Jerusalem which in ages past had been the site of the Molech cult. It had since become a perpetually burning refuse dump where the bodies of the diseased and of criminals were dumped.

Such imagery provided a stark contrast to that of Gan-Eden ("Garden of Eden") or Paradise (meaning "garden"), which comes from the lush and verdant imagery of Eden's garden as a place of life and refreshment.

The righteous in the grave of death (She'ol/Hades) dwelt in the joy and pleasures of the garden; whereas the wicked in the grave of death (She'ol/Hades) dwelt in the agony of on-going fire.

As such, what's being discussed isn't some literal location under the earth, but of the common state of the dead and the condition or state of the righteous death vs that of the wicked dead; between the two sides of She'ol/Hades.

Scripture also speaks of a more future reality in the resurrection. The righteous raised to blessed life in the Olam Ha'ba (Age or World to Come) and the wicked raised to the anguish of destructive end.

When St. John offers his vision of the Judgment, he speaks of the latter as a lake of fire and brimstone, a second death. What this is we do not know.

Brimstone has, because of St. John's vision, become associated with hellishness; but in John's time brimstone was a purification agent. So associated with the sacred and the divine that the word translated as "brimstone" is the Greek word for "divinity", θεῖον.

Does St. John intend for us to understand that there is, somewhere in existence, a lake composed of fire and sulfur? Unlikely in my opinion.

As we move into St. John's vision of God's restoration and renewal of creation (the new heavens and the new earth) we behold a Jerusalem descending upon the earth, where we read two interesting things:

"Outside [of the city] are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." - Revelation 22:15

Where and how are they present and to what meaning do we ascribe this?

And perhaps more fascinating:

"Then the angels showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." - Revelation 22:1-2

So, exactly, what is the ultimate everything is yet to be seen, in my opinion. And we shouldn't have a too dogmatic view. There's a certain optimistic open-endedness that seems to be present in the biblical portrait of the Ever-After. And what that is or how it is is simply not ours to declare or proclaim.

Hell, as "ultimate or penultimate state of the wicked", therefore is perhaps simply not something we can say much about except that it describes a reality that we simply have no knowledge about outside of the images scattered few and far between in the pages of Holy Writ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lion King]

I can't speak for our Orthodox brothers and sisters here but I believe that's the orthodox perspective on hell. Essentially being in the presence of unending love and forgiveness, even though you don't want it and hate the source it's coming from. That's hell.

"Thus it is the Church's spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God's splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light. ... those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (St. Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises) The Orthodox Church of America website"

OCA - The Orthodox Faith - Volume IV - SpiritualityThe Kingdom of Heaven - Heaven and Hell

I am perplexed that some people out there actually believe in this stuff. Hell is anything, but God's love as some erroneously claim. Now, although your position maybe orthodox, it is certainly not the word of God, but simply a man-made doctrine created to appease the carnal mind.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. Genesis 19:24-25

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah serves as a perfect example of what will happen to the wicked. I know this teaching is not what the world wants to hear, but we can never substitute the truth for a lie...

 

[Gnarwhal]

I am perplexed that some people out there actually believe in this stuff. Hell is anything, but God's love as some erroneously claim. Now, although your position maybe orthodox, it is certainly not the word of God, but simply a man-made doctrine created to appease the carnal mind.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. Genesis 19:24-25

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah serves as a perfect example of what will happen to the wicked. I know this teaching is not what the world wants to hear, but we can never substitute the truth for a lie...

Sure man.

According to the saints, the "fire" that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same "fire" that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the "fire" of God's love; the "fire" of God Himself who is Love. "For our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29) who "dwells in unapproachable light." (I Timothy 6:16) For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the "consuming fire" of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same 66consuming fire" will be the cause of their "weeping" and their "gnashing of teeth."

As far as Sodom and Gomorrah go:

"'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. (Ezekiel 16:49, 50 NIV)

 

[Timothew]

Discuss.

OK.

The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

This can't be eternal torture in hell.
Death is death and not eternal life in hell.

The gift of God is eternal life in Shrist Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
Do unrepentant sinners also receive the "gift" of eternal life, so that God can torture them forever in hell? Not according to the Bible, which states specifically that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell. In fact, Jesus Himself said "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish." Jesus didn't say 'unless you repent you will spend eternity in hell being tortured by me and/or my demons.'

 

[Timothew]

If you would enjoy being in a worship service, then you will enjoy being with Yahweh rather than Satan. If you would enjoy being in a sexual free-for-all, then you would enjoy being with Satan rather than Yahweh.

You actually believe that heaven is a boring church service for eternity and hell is free sex forever? And you chose heaven? Actually I need to see the chapter and verses supporting your doctrine before I can accept it.

 

[dollarsbill]

It is not a simple topic.
It is not a good, lasting motivation for doing good works or trying to be a good Christian.
Service & accomodations vary from bad to worse.
Try Googling "Hell - reviews".

Actually one of the main reasons I got saved was to avoid Hell.

 

[dollarsbill]

In Greek, the term "forever and ever" actualy can be translated "for ages and ages", meaning for a long period of time, but does not mean endless.

God will burn humans for "a long period of time" but not forever? Hmmm.

And of course, it is worthy of mention that the words “everlasting” and “eternal” in the New Testament are both translated from the same Greek word, “aionos”.

If eternal doesn't mean forever then does that mean 'eternal life' doesn't mean forever?

 

[Timothew]

If eternal doesn't mean forever then does that mean 'eternal life' doesn't mean forever?

What does "life" mean to you? What is the definition of "life"?

 

[dollarsbill]

What does "life" mean to you? What is the definition of "life"?

We are talking about ETERNAL life and ETERNAL punishment. Both mean NEVER ending.

 

[Timothew]

We are talking about ETERNAL life and ETERNAL punishment. Both mean NEVER ending.

Agreed.

But what does life mean?

(I agree that the punishment is eternal, not that the punishing is eternal)

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

"ABANDON ALL HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE" was supposedly
written on the gates there by Jesus...

I have no idea if that is true or not, however.
Come to think of it, I can't even recall where I first heard that.

That is a quote from the book "Dante's Inferno".

 

[dollarsbill]

Agreed.

But what does life mean?

(I agree that the punishment is eternal, not that the punishing is eternal)

We have been over and over this. You cannot refute eternal torment.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

We have been over and over this. You cannot refute eternal torment.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Amen..

(this debate.... again.... )

 

[Timothew]

OK DB, don't answer the question. Apparently you don't know what life is.
Why am I even asking you anything?