Merzbow said:
[SIZE=-1]Let's consider the evidence, shall we[/SIZE]?
From my post.
Clement of Alexandria VI.-From the Book on the Soul.
All souls are immortal, even those of the wicked, for whom it were better that they were not deathless. For, punished with the endless vengeance of quenchless fire, and not dying, it is impossible for them to have a, period put to their misery.
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-79.htm#P10261_2871673
Which you blew off with a meaningless knee jerk response,
[SIZE=-1]Nothing more than a FRAGMENT.[/SIZE]
No it was two sentences and a link to the primary source. Which shows that Clement taught that all souls were immortal and after departing this world that the wicked were punished with the
endless vengeance of quenchless fire, and since they were immortal, they did not die, so it is
impossible for them to have, an end, or period, put to their misery.
You do understand the words "
endless" and "
quenchless" don't you? You can't jerk these words around like you try to with "
aion"
Second quote from Clement,
Clement of Alexandria Exhortation to the Heathen
For the author of evil, torment has been prepared; and so the prophet Zecharias threatens him: He that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee; lo, is not this a brand plucked from the fire? What an infatuated desire, then, for voluntary death is this, rooted in mens minds! Why do they flee to this fatal brand, with which they shall be burned, when it is within their power to live nobly according to God, and not according to custom? For God bestows life freely; but
evil custom, after our departure from this world, brings on the sinner unavailing remorse with punishment.
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-50.htm#P2691_785581
Second meaningless knee jerk comment,
[SIZE=-1]Punishment. Not everlasting punishment - there isn't even an aionios here.[/SIZE]
I know lets pretend Clement did not ever write anything else, like the quote immediately above, and we can almost make this say anything we want it to. Clement said those who were evil, a sinner, in this life would have "
unavailing remorse, with their torment/punishment. See definition of "
unavailing" since you apparently do not understand what it means.
Main Entry: un·avail·ing
Pronunciation: -'vA-li[ng]
Function: adjective
: not availing : FUTILE, USELESS
- un·avail·ing·ly /-li[ng]-lE/ adverb
- un·avail·ing·ness noun
In their post mortal punishment the wicked are sorry for their sins but their remorse is futile, useless, because Clement understood that sinners faced the endless vengeance of quenchless fire, and not dying, it is impossible for them to have, an end, a period, put to their misery.
Third quote,
Clement of Alexandria Who is the Rich Man that Shall Be Saved?
For though sparing, and aiming at testing, who will receive meritoriously or not,
it is possible for you to neglect some that are loved by God; the penalty for which is the punishment of eternal fire.
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-86.htm#P10493_2903393
And your third meaningless knee jerk response
[SIZE=-1]Lemme guess - 'aionios' fire? We covered that. Either 'age-lasting', or eternal in the sense of timeless or the nature of the divine (as Plato used it, derived from Aristotle's use and definition of aion). NOT everlasting. And I'm betting he used the Greek word that means corrective punishment (as the NT does).[/SIZE]
Meaningless bloviation because you cannot provide a reasoned response.
No we did not cover anything about "
aionios fire." You made some irrelevant unsupported assertions without the slightest bit of evidence somewhere back there. Your assumptions and presuppositions are not evidence for anything.
As I recall I have asked you this twice. Show me something beside another blind cut/paste from hellmakers that supports, "
Either 'age-lasting', or eternal in the sense of timeless or the nature of the divine." etc. A third or fourth hand copy of more worthless drivel from hellmakers, allegedly showing how Plato, etc, supposedly used "
aionios" is less than meaningless.
Quoting a universalist website instead of credible, verifiable, primary sources is about like a Muslim suicide bomber quoting Osama Bin Laden, or vice versa.
Surprise, surprise, hellmakers and tentbusters posts only stuff that supports universalism.
"
I'm betting he used the Greek word that means corrective punishment." You haven't provided any independent evidence that any word means "
corrective punishment," in the above quote, the N.T., Clement, or anywhere else. I will accept quotes from, and links to, any primary sources. I will not hold my breath.
Once again pretending Clement did not write anything else on the topic. A favorite tactic of false proof text religions.. What did Clement mean by, "
the punishment of eternal fire"? Compare this writing with Clements other works. "
punished with the endless vengeance of quenchless fire, and not dying, it is impossible for them to have a, period put to their misery" and "
unavailing remorse, with their punishment" In his own words, that is what Clement meant by "
aionios fire."
That is known as reading "
in context," apparently you are not familiar with this indisepnsable requirement in all fields of study.
[SIZE=-1]Now let's look at Clement's soteriological writings in his major works. Do they support the view that he believed one could not escape from this punishment? Assuredly not:[/SIZE]
Who decided it was a "
major work," or "
soterological"? Once again pretending that Clement only wrote what you choose to quote. The only thing you have established is, like Gregory, Clement A, was not a consistent or exclusive universalist. Therefore citing Clement proves absolutely nothing about the validity of universalism.
Show me a church father in the first 300 years of the church who was a consistent, exclusive, universalist.