"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[Brightfame52]

Oh, so then you are condemning Paul for writing Titus 1:16?
If not, then how do you understand what he wrote in Titus 1:16?
If you refuse to explain it, then I am just going to assume you are ignoring parts of the Bible that you don't like in favor of a foreign belief (outside of the Bible).

I havent seen Paul posting here today ! Im condemning Salvation by conditionalism, Paul never said that. Show me if he did.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No I dont have a problem with it. The issue is you condition salvation on your faith, thats works.

This sounds like High Calvinism. For you appear to believe that faith is not a necessary requirement for being saved by God's grace. I shown you Ephesians 2:8 and it clearly says we are saved by God's grace THROUGH FAITH. If you don't believe Ephesians 2:8 in what it plainly says, that is on you. For even other Calvinists believe that you need faith in order to be saved by God's grace. You don't seem to offer any opinion on what certain verses say. You just keep making bold assertions without providing any actual Bible verses to back up your claims. There is no point in having a conversation if you cannot explain verses that I put forth to you. This is how a normal discussion with God's Word should normally go. You share information and provide Bible verses. Then I share what the Bible says about that and you in return will explain what certain verses mean to you. If you are not willing to participate in sharing what you believe God's Word says, then we are done talking.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I havent seen Paul posting here today ! Im condemning Salvation by conditionalism, Paul never said that. Show me if he did.

The apostle Paul is not a user on this forum. The apostle Paul is one of the writers in the New Testament. The apostle Paul wrote Titus 1:16. You say that the apostle Paul never wrote Titus 1:16?

Please get your Bible out and turn to Titus 1:16 and read it in your Bible. I quoted from the King James Bible. Surely you can look up the King James Bible and read Titus 1:16 online and check what was written as saying the same thing I posted.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Conditional salvation is sin, it is the sin of pride and denys the Glory of God in Jesus Christ, by which Salvation is by Grace.

Surely if what you say is true, then you would have no problem explaining the verses I provided to you before that has the IF words included in them that relates to our salvation. But I am not expecting you to do that based on our previous discussions.

So until you start explaining what the Bible says in verses I put forth to you, I am moving on from having a discussion with you. For I am here to talk about what the Bible actually says, and I am not interested in a person making bold assertions without backing up their claims using Scripture.

 

[setst777]

Once you make salvation conditioned on man, his believing, repentance, baptism, decision, anything, you promote salvation by works, totally contrary to scripture.

Do not call the Gospel that God has purposed by His Sovereign will contrary to Scripture. That is calling God a liar, as if what you say is superior to God. That is pride - the same pride that caused Satan's fall.

1 Corinthians 1:21
21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 Even if our Good News is veiled, it is veiled in those who are dying, 4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.

Your pride is preventing you from seeing the Gospel which calls all people everywhere to repent and believe in Lord Jesus to be saved.

Was the Apostle Paul preaching the correct Gospel in the following - Yes or No?

Romans 1:16-17 (NIV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

Acts 20:20-21 (WEB) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

What about Lord Jesus - was He teaching a false Gospel?

Luke 9:23-24 (WEB) 23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

 

[setst777]

@setst777

Being saved by God's grace through faith:
(the 1st work of God):

Believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried, and had risen again three days later on your behalf, and accepting Jesus as your Savior, and seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer. This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace.

Scripture verses that support this:

1. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. “ (Ephesians 2:8-9).
   
   
2. “What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.” (Romans 4:1-6).
   
   
3. “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:4-7).
   
   
4. “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
   
   
5. “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
   
   
6. “And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14).
   
   
7. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1-2).
   
   
8. “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:26-28).
   
   
9. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners” (Galatians 2:17).
   
   
10. “...and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Galatians 2:20-21).
    
    
11. “...not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9).
    
    
12. Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: (Colossians 1:12-14).
    
    
13. “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:4-7).
    
    
14. “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (Ephesians 2:13-17).
    
    
15. ”Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” (Romans 3:20-30).

Side Note:

It also includes one in being born again spiritually, as well (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures)).

Good Scriptures. I agree, faith is not works.

 

[setst777]

Yes, belief is a condition. I don't have any problem saying so.

My objection to your perspective has to do, not with salvation being obtained through belief, but with the idea that salvation itself is achieved in part through human endurance.

Firstly, no one disagrees with the Scriptures you quoted. Salvation is by God's grace through faith. You do not know what faith is, that is the issue.

You believe faith is a condition to be saved, yet refuse to believe that you are to endure in that faith by which you were saved. That is strange.

You are saying then that faith is a past experience to be saved, and now have your salvation guaranteed whether you continue to believe or not. Not in Scripture, rather, YOU are commanded to continue in the faith to be saved.

For example - some Scriptures out so many throughout the New Testament:

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB) Speaking to His followers
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 (WEB)
1 Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 However with most of them, God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Don’t be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” [Exodus 32:6]
8 Let us not commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell.
9 Let us not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.
10 Do not grumble, as some of them also grumbled, and perished by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he doesn’t fall.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 12 Beware, brothers and sisters, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest anyone of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
“Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB)
20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB)
7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption.
But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Ephesians 5:3-9 (WEB)
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9 for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (WEB)18 I commit this instruction to you, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies which were given to you before, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some having thrust away made a shipwreck concerning the faith

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (WEB) 4 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron

1 Timothy 4:14-16 (WEB) 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the elders. 15 Be diligent in these things. Give yourself wholly to them, that your progress may be revealed to all. 16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

1 Timothy 6:18-21 (WEB)
18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of eternal life.
20 Timothy, guard that which is committed to you, turning away from the empty chatter and oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some profess, and thus have wandered from the faith.

setst777 said: ↑
Read and understand the faith of the Gospel - a sanctified life onto God:

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Yet, you say sanctification is optional to be saved. No, rather, sanctification unto God is the only faith by which God chooses to save us.

??? Nowhere have I ever written, "Sanctification is optional." Nowhere.

You agreed that, by repentance and faith we are saved, which is sanctification.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit

Therefore, faith is sanctification onto God – which is, being disciples of Lord Jesus, the denying of the old life, and now living to obey all that the Lord Jesus commanded of us – a holy life as slaves to righteousness.

That is the Great Commission for the Gospel preaching.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB)
19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Yet you say obedience to Lord Jesus is optional. If that be the case, how can you live a sanctified life onto God when obedience to God is optional?

If the churches were not obeying God - as the Spirit indicated was the case through John - and were not rejected by God, then it follows that obedience was optional - temporarily, at least. If obedience were not optional, there would have been no room for disobedience at all.

How can you say sanctification is necessary, yet, you think obedience is optional?

Revelation 14:12-13 (WEB)
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” 13 I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.”

While a believer may sin, that does not mean disobedience to God is optional – ever.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Disobedience to God is never optional

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
1 “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Brightfame52]

This sounds like High Calvinism. For you appear to believe that faith is not a necessary requirement for being saved by God's grace. I shown you Ephesians 2:8 and it clearly says we are saved by God's grace THROUGH FAITH. If you don't believe Ephesians 2:8 in what it plainly says, that is on you. For even other Calvinists believe that you need faith in order to be saved by God's grace. You don't seem to offer any opinion on what certain verses say. You just keep making bold assertions without providing any actual Bible verses to back up your claims. There is no point in having a conversation if you cannot explain verses that I put forth to you. This is how a normal discussion with God's Word should normally go. You share information and provide Bible verses. Then I share what the Bible says about that and you in return will explain what certain verses mean to you. If you are not willing to participate in sharing what you believe God's Word says, then we are done talking.

Friend, conditional salvation is wrong, its against scripture, Salvation is by Grace !

 

[setst777]

Friend, conditional salvation is wrong, its against scripture, Salvation is by Grace !

Grace through Faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

The apostle Paul is not a user on this forum. The apostle Paul is one of the writers in the New Testament. The apostle Paul wrote Titus 1:16. You say that the apostle Paul never wrote Titus 1:16?

Please get your Bible out and turn to Titus 1:16 and read it in your Bible. I quoted from the King James Bible. Surely you can look up the King James Bible and read Titus 1:16 online and check what was written as saying the same thing I posted.

Paul isnt here teaching conditional work salvation, you are, and its anti biblical. Salvation is 100% by Grace apart from works Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Even Faith is of Grace, we believe by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed[Faith] through grace:

Faith to believe doesnt come from man, but because of Grace !

 

[Brightfame52]

Do not call the Gospel that God has purposed by His Sovereign will contrary to Scripture. That is calling God a liar, as if what you say is superior to God. That is pride - the same pride that caused Satan's fall.

1 Corinthians 1:21
21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 Even if our Good News is veiled, it is veiled in those who are dying, 4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.

Your pride is preventing you from seeing the Gospel which calls all people everywhere to repent and believe in Lord Jesus to be saved.

Was the Apostle Paul preaching the correct Gospel in the following - Yes or No?

Romans 1:16-17 (NIV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

Acts 20:20-21 (WEB) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

What about Lord Jesus - was He teaching a false Gospel?

Luke 9:23-24 (WEB) 23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

You the one teaching conditional salvation, conditioned on man, thats pride and is an attemtp to detract the Glory of God in Salvation by Grace !

 

[Brightfame52]

Grace through Faith.

Faith is from Grace, which is not of ourselves ! Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

See you want to take credit for Faith in salvation instead of giving the credit to Gods Sovereign Grace, thats pride friend !

 

[timothyu]

pride is preventing you from seeing the Gospel which calls all people everywhere to repent and believe in Lord Jesus to be saved.

Actually He said repent for the Kingdom of God was at hand,, His Kingdom will come and His will will be done in earth. Believe it (in what Jesus said He came to tell us) and choose which side you are on, rebellious man's or God's.

 

[setst777]

Faith is from Grace, which is not of ourselves ! Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

In Acts 18:27, it says we believed through grace, not that grace caused their faith.

The Gospel of God's grace is God's invitation to all people, but we still are required to accept the invitation.

Matthew 22:8-9 (WEB) 8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited weren’t worthy. 9 Go therefore to the intersections of the highways, and as many as you may find, invite to the wedding feast.’

That Gospel of God's grace is what calls us to faith.

Many will refuse God's grace and remain condemned.
Those who believe receive the grace that is offered through the Gospel.

John 3:18 (WEB)
18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Roman 10:17 (WEB) 17 So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Notice you must have faith first so that it may be by grace. You access God's grace by faith.

If you have the same faith Abraham had, then you receive the grace that is offered. That is all that this is saying.

See you want to take credit for Faith in salvation instead of giving the credit to Gods Sovereign Grace, thats pride friend !

God is the one who accredits righteousness to those who believe. That is God who does this.

Romans 4:3 (WEB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” [Genesis 15:6]

Notice, Abraham was not being prideful by believing in God, rather, God accredited righteousness to Abraham because Abraham believed God.

 

[setst777]

Actually He said repent for the Kingdom of God was at hand,, His Kingdom will come and His will will be done in earth. Believe it (in what Jesus said He came to tell us) and choose which side you are on, rebellious man's or God's.

I agree. Repent, and Believe in Lord Jesus so we may enter the Kingdom of God.

John 3:16-18 (WEB)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

 

[setst777]

Faith starts off as a belief and trust in God.
This is how we are first saved by God's grace (without the deeds of the Law).
But faith does not stop or end there. The journey of faith continues and does not remain as a belief alone. Faith can also include righteous actions. We see this in Hebrews 11. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). So we can see that righteous actions is tied to the faith, as well. The work of faith is a part of the faith. But you want me to believe that faith and the work of faith are two different things. The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” and yet we know that the “work” is tied to “the Lord.” They cannot be separated. That is why it is called the “work of faith” and not just “works.”

Sorry for the late reply, I overlooked this message, and only discovered it today.

By faith in Lord Jesus, we have committed to deny the old life of serving sinful passions to instead listening to and following Lord Jesus into the holy life of righteousness and love that Lord Jesus commanded and instructed us. Therefore, if your faith in Jesus is genuine, then you will obey him. That is not two different things, rather, obedience to Lord Jesus into a holy life is the Gospel Faith. They go together - the are one and the same.

Also, what is one of the fruits of the Spirit? Faith. To trust God is a fruit of the Spirit. Fruit is a work, and yet one of the fruits is also said to be faith. Hence, faith can refer to work (i.e. the work of faith).

The fruits of the Spirit affect our character - how we conduct our lives as followers of Jesus.

Love, patience, long-suffering, etc re character traits - the fruits of our faith in Jesus.

One of the fruits of the Spirit is faith (faithfulness). We live out the fruits of the Spirit by faithfully living, walking, and sowing to the Spirit (following Lord Jesus).

Faith (faithfulness) is one of the fruits of our faith in Jesus. What this means is, "faithfulness" is a character trait of the believer - how we conduct our lives as believers in Lord Jesus, being trustworthy in character.

Granted, God does not force us to be a certain way. We have to choose to have faith to begin with. God is not going to believe for us. God is not going to do the good works for us. We must remain faithful unto death so as to receive the crown of life. The word faithful implies doing righteous things. For if I said that a man was faithful to his wife, this would not be a mental acknowledgment only. This would mean he was physically being faithful to her. This would involve some form of righteous actions. The word FAITHFUL. It is derived from the word FAITH. FAITHFUL is just another way of saying the “work of faith.”

True

Do we have to cooperate with God in doing good works?
Yes, or no?

Yes

Does doing these good works involve salvation?

A true Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus is how God saves us, but the demonstration of our Gospel Faith is good deeds - the good fruit we bear by abiding in Christ Jesus. Therefore, in the context of that faith, God judges us by our works.

1 Peter 1:13-19 (WEB)
13 Therefore prepare your minds for action. Be sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ— 14 as children of obedience, not conforming yourselves according to your former lusts as in your ignorance, 15 but just as he who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all of your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy; for I am holy.” [Leviticus 11:44-45]
17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear, 18 knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish or spot, the blood of Christ

So by faith, we are redeemed by Christ Jesus. We were redeemed by Christ to live holy lives onto God demonstrated in obedience to His commands.

I would say that this would be a... “yes” because Matthew 25 says that those believers who did not help the poor were told to go away into a punishment that has everlasting consequences.

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Jesus defined loving your neighbor as helping the poor beat up man on the side of the road (Luke 10:29-37).

I agree.

1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
I see the light as God (See: 1 John 1:5).
I see walking in the light as loving your brother by the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.
This is backed up by 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.
So we must love our brother (in our actions and words alone) as a part of the blood of Jesus cleansing us from all sin (Which involves salvation). So faith does not remain as a belief alone in Jesus. Faith continues and it manifests itself in a different way.

A true Gospel faith was never defined by God as "believe alone." That is not the definition of the Gospel Faith. Rather, a Gospel Faith is sanctification of our lives onto God - a commitment to deny, put off, renounce, die to, put to death, crucify the old fleshly master, and instead, by faith, commit to Jesus as our Sovereign and Lord whom we now listen to and follow.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Even so, we prove the authenticity of our faith, and our faith is refined, by remaining faithful against all the powers of darkness, and our own flesh, that attempt to destroy us.

Anyways, being faithful is in reference to doing something. For we know according to 1 John 1:9, that God is faithful in his actions towards us if we confess of our sins. We know that the Lord is faithful, who will strengthen you and will keep you from evil (2 Thessalonians 3:3). This again implies that God is doing something to help us in being kept away from evil. So faithful includes doing something righteous or good (i.e. good works).

Then you may like this thread I created a while back.

The Living Word & the Communicated Word.

For the thread shows a connection between the Living Word (Jesus) and the communicated Word (the Bible). I discovered 41 connections in Scripture.

Thank you.

Anyways, if you believe Romans 10:17 is referring to the Bible, then faith would be the Bible. Everything. All of it. The whole Bible is a part of our faith. The Bible is chocked full of righteous instructions. That too is a part of the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (the Bible). So whatever I obey (hear) in the Bible (even doing righteous things), it is a part of the faith.

Hope this helps;
And may God bless you greatly today.

The Scriptures are instructions for our faith. The New Testament, in particular, is the Christian manual as to how we are to conduct our lives as aliens in this world of sin as disciples of Lord Jesus.

Blessings in you.

 

[Brightfame52]

In Acts 18:27, it says we believed through grace, not that grace caused their faith.

The Gospel of God's grace is God's invitation to all people, but we still are required to accept the invitation.

Matthew 22:8-9 (WEB) 8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited weren’t worthy. 9 Go therefore to the intersections of the highways, and as many as you may find, invite to the wedding feast.’

That Gospel of God's grace is what calls us to faith.

Many will refuse God's grace and remain condemned.
Those who believe receive the grace that is offered through the Gospel.

John 3:18 (WEB)
18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Roman 10:17 (WEB) 17 So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.



Notice you must have faith first so that it may be by grace. You access God's grace by faith.

If you have the same faith Abraham had, then you receive the grace that is offered. That is all that this is saying.



God is the one who accredits righteousness to those who believe. That is God who does this.

Romans 4:3 (WEB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” [Genesis 15:6]

Notice, Abraham was not being prideful by believing in God, rather, God accredited righteousness to Abraham because Abraham believed God.

They believed because of Grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul isnt here teaching conditional work salvation, you are, and its anti biblical. Salvation is 100% by Grace apart from works Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Even Faith is of Grace, we believe by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed[Faith] through grace:

Faith to believe doesnt come from man, but because of Grace !

You have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word.

We are told to repent and be converted (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Without faith, it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (Hebrews 11:6). This implies that God requires us to have faith so as to please Him because why would God not want to be pleased? Why would God tell us that without faith it is impossible to please Him if it is something only God can give to a person?
Jesus was amazed at the greatness of the Centurion's faith. If faith was a gift from God, then why would Jesus be amazed at what God does if He is one with the Father? It makes no sense.
Jesus blamed Peter for doubting and having little faith for not continuing to walk on the water.
Jesus did not blame God the Father for a lack of Peter's faith.

So we have to reconcile ALL of the Scriptures so that they make sense.
So if these other verses are to make any kind of sense, Acts of the Apostles 18:27 cannot be teaching that faith is something God forces upon a person because of His grace.
The word “through” can also mean “because of.” See the related words section for the word “through” at this 1913 Online Webster's Dictionary here:

Through | Definition of Through by Webster's Online Dictionary

This is indeed what we discover in other translations, as well.

The ERV (Easy to Read Version) says,

“he was a great help to those who had believed
in Jesus because of God’s grace.” (Acts of the Apostles 18:27) (ERV).

Meaning, a person can be moved by God's grace to believe in the Lord. For if we know the love of God and what He had done for us by His sending His only begotten Son to die in our place and the pain and suffering the Son went through for us to save us, then we can be emotionally moved by such kindness by God (grace) so as to believe in Jesus as our Savior.

The WE (Worldwide English Translation) says this in a more clear way. It says:

“They believed because God was kind to them.” (Acts of the Apostles 18:27) (WE).

In my opinion, it seems like those who don't want to do anything for God (or do very little for the Lord), or those who do not want to take responsibility for anything tend to read the Bible from a Calvinistic bias. But if God is responsible for who is saved and who is not saved, then this life is pretty meaningless. No matter what you did or did not do, God will save and not save whom He will. This to me does not sound like the God of the Bible because 2 Peter 3:9 says God is not willing that ANY should perish but that all should come to repentance. God tells us to love our enemies. The Bible says God is love. The Calvinistic version of God does not sound like a God of love to me. But you are free (not forced by God) to believe as you wish (of course).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry for the late reply, I overlooked this message, and only discovered it today.

By faith in Lord Jesus, we have committed to deny the old life of serving sinful passions to instead listening to and following Lord Jesus into the holy life of righteousness and love that Lord Jesus commanded and instructed us. Therefore, if your faith in Jesus is genuine, then you will obey him. That is not two different things, rather, obedience to Lord Jesus into a holy life is the Gospel Faith. They go together - the are one and the same.

Well, I first wanted to say thank you for being kind with me. Also, thank you for taking a stand in how we need to obey the Lord as a part of being in God's kingdom.

Anyways, to get down to business: I believe that faith can refer to a belief alone that then manifests itself as the work of faith. I say this because James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and because James says “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24). When James refers to “works” here, he is talking about the “work of faith” in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. When James refers to faith in context to works, he is referring to the 1st aspect of our salvation that we need to have in Jesus. A belief or trust in the Lord as our Savior and a belief in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. So naturally faith starts off as a belief and or trust in Jesus in being saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law. We throw ourselves down before the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ and call out to Him for salvation (Romans 10:13). We believe in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. That to me is the gospel. But the gospel does call us. It calls us in.... God having chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). Surely the gospel call is not the same thing as the gospel. A call of the gospel and the gospel are two different things.

The fruits of the Spirit affect our character - how we conduct our lives as followers of Jesus.

Love, patience, long-suffering, etc re character traits - the fruits of our faith in Jesus.

One of the fruits of the Spirit is faith (faithfulness). We live out the fruits of the Spirit by faithfully living, walking, and sowing to the Spirit (following Lord Jesus).

Faith (faithfulness) is one of the fruits of our faith in Jesus. What this means is, "faithfulness" is a character trait of the believer - how we conduct our lives as believers in Lord Jesus, being trustworthy in character.

I agree. Faithfulness would be the best way to understand the fruit of the Spirit called “faith.”
I believe the same can be said for Hebrews 11. It would be both a belief or trust in God plus faith in action (faithfulness).

A true Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus is how God saves us, but the demonstration of our Gospel Faith is good deeds - the good fruit we bear by abiding in Christ Jesus. Therefore, in the context of that faith, God judges us by our works.

I again believe the full version of the gospel to be what Paul told us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

1 Peter 1:13-19 (WEB)
13 Therefore prepare your minds for action. Be sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ— 14 as children of obedience, not conforming yourselves according to your former lusts as in your ignorance, 15 but just as he who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all of your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy; for I am holy.” [Leviticus 11:44-45]
17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear, 18 knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish or spot, the blood of Christ

So by faith, we are redeemed by Christ Jesus. We were redeemed by Christ to live holy lives onto God demonstrated in obedience to His commands.

I agree that faith (belief or trust in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and in God's grace and mercy) manifests itself as the work of faith (or faithfulness), which is a part of the faith. I believe this kind of faith is what also saves, as well. 1 John 1:7 is a big one for me that proves this truth clearly.
If we walk in the light (a work of faith) (i.e. loving our brother as we abide in God), the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (i.e. salvation).

I believe we cannot put the cart (work of faith) before the horse (Being saved by God's grace and mercy and by believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). For this type of faith is the kind that is without the deeds of the Law. It is the first aspect of salvation that is focused on the grace of God. For this is what the Pharisee failed to see in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. He wanted to make it all about works, when he himself needed to be like the Tax Collector and cry out to the Lord in seeking forgiveness over his sins. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

The Scriptures are instructions for our faith. The New Testament, in particular, is the Christian manual as to how we are to conduct our lives as aliens in this world of sin as disciples of Lord Jesus.

Blessings in you.

I agree whole heartedly with this statement.

May the Lord's good ways always be upon you.

 

[Brightfame52]

You have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word.

We are told to repent and be converted (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Without faith, it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (Hebrews 11:6). This implies that God requires us to have faith so as to please Him because why would God not want to be pleased? Why would God tell us that without faith it is impossible to please Him if it is something only God can give to a person?
Jesus was amazed at the greatness of the Centurion's faith. If faith was a gift from God, then why would Jesus be amazed at what God does if He is one with the Father? It makes no sense.
Jesus blamed Peter for doubting and having little faith for not continuing to walk on the water.
Jesus did not blame God the Father for a lack of Peter's faith.

So we have to reconcile ALL of the Scriptures so that they make sense.
So if these other verses are to make any kind of sense, Acts of the Apostles 18:27 cannot be teaching that faith is something God forces upon a person because of His grace.
The word “through” can also mean “because of.” See the related words section for the word “through” at this 1913 Online Webster's Dictionary here:

Through | Definition of Through by Webster's Online Dictionary

This is indeed what we discover in other translations, as well.

The ERV (Easy to Read Version) says,

“he was a great help to those who had believed
in Jesus because of God’s grace.” (Acts of the Apostles 18:27) (ERV).

Meaning, a person can be moved by God's grace to believe in the Lord. For if we know the love of God and what He had done for us by His sending His only begotten Son to die in our place and the pain and suffering the Son went through for us to save us, then we can be emotionally moved by such kindness by God (grace) so as to believe in Jesus as our Savior.

The WE (Worldwide English Translation) says this in a more clear way. It says:

“They believed because God was kind to them.” (Acts of the Apostles 18:27) (WE).

In my opinion, it seems like those who don't want to do anything for God (or do very little for the Lord), or those who do not want to take responsibility for anything tend to read the Bible from a Calvinistic bias. But if God is responsible for who is saved and who is not saved, then this life is pretty meaningless. No matter what you did or did not do, God will save and not save whom He will. This to me does not sound like the God of the Bible because 2 Peter 3:9 says God is not willing that ANY should perish but that all should come to repentance. God tells us to love our enemies. The Bible says God is love. The Calvinistic version of God does not sound like a God of love to me. But you are free (not forced by God) to believe as you wish (of course).

You don't get it do you? Salvation is of Grace and not of works!