"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[aiki]

No one on this board denies that God saves us. God graciously saves those who believe, and those who refuse to believe remain condemned (John 3:14-18). That is God's will and plan. Call it a condition if you like.

Yes, belief is a condition. I don't have any problem saying so.

Who are we to say God's free gift of salvation is no longer the free gift of salvation simply because God chooses to save those who believe (a continuous believing - not a past experience)?

My objection to your perspective has to do, not with salvation being obtained through belief, but with the idea that salvation itself is achieved in part through human endurance.

Imagine a man who has fallen ill with cancer of the colon. His oncologist informs the man that, if he doesn't have surgery to remove the cancer, he will die. The sick man must believe he is sick, as the cancer specialist has said he is, and he must consent to the removal of the tumorous cancer in his colon. But neither of these things in-and-of themselves do anything to save the man. Only when the man submits himself to the surgeon for surgery can he be saved from his cancer. And only by the work of surgeon - to which the sick man, being unconscious during surgery, can make no contribution whatever - will the cancer be removed. The surgery happens and the man is made well. His cancer is gone. He's been saved by the surgeon.

Now imagine that the surgeon comes to the man and says, "Only so long as you believe I've removed your tumor will you be free of it. If you cease to live like a person freed from cancer, my surgery will be undone and your tumor will reappear." Upon whom, now, does the man's freedom from cancer depend? Who saves the once-cancerous man from his tumor? The surgeon? No. His work is only so good, so effective, as the belief and conduct of the man from whom he's removed the tumor. If the man stops believing he's been saved from cancer, stops trusting that the surgeon has really saved him, and neglects to live like a man saved from cancer, his tumor will come right back. So, now, the man's cancer-free condition depends entirely upon him, upon his belief and behaviour, not upon the saving work of the surgeon. And so it is that the man is his own saviour, saving himself by his belief and action.

This isn't what happens in reality, though, is it? When the man is freed from his cancer tumor by the surgeon, he doesn't have to live like its gone in order for it to be gone. That would be a very bizarre circumstance! No, the healed man, the man saved by the work of the surgeon, doesn't have to pretend he's been healed of cancer; the stomach pain the cancer tumor caused, the blockage in his colon, the weight loss, nausea and general malaise the tumor produced are all gone since the tumor has been removed. The man lives like a man healed of cancer because he is a man healed by cancer, not in order to be a man healed of cancer.

So, too, with the healing from sin-sickness that the Great Physician works upon the person He saves. it is a weak, ineffectual work that he does if its success rests upon the response of the person to his work. If the "saved" person must "endure to the end" in order to be saved, then they are, by that endurance, become their own saviour. The Great Physician has only accomplished a partial healing from sin, a partial salvation, if the believer must contribute to their salvation by "enduring in the faith" in order to be saved.

I realize that your enormous investment in your perspective makes it impossible for you to properly consider what I'm pointing out to you. But the deep contradiction in your view is unmistakable to me and it astonishes me that you are so easy with the cognitive dissonance of it. It looks to me like you've so magnified one idea that you think you understand in Scripture that it has contorted and now stands in contradiction to the rest. As a result, you are espousing a two-Saviours soteriology, works-salvation, but appear unable to see that this is so, though it is glaringly apparent to others.

"Faith" and enduring in that faith (continuous faith), is something you may never grasp, even after you almost understood after I quoted the verses on the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20) and those on repentance.

The inability to properly grasp Scripture isn't on my end, but on yours. You have the lens of your "endure to the end" presupposition so firmly and constantly in place that you cannot consider any verse except through that lens. Even if the verse contradicts directly your works-salvation view (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-8; 2 Timothy 1:9), your "endure to the end" lens prevents you from accepting that this is so. There is no man so blind as he who will not see.

Read and understand the faith of the Gospel - a sanctified life onto God:

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Yet, you say sanctification is optional to be saved. No, rather, sanctification unto God is the only faith by which God chooses to save us.

??? Nowhere have I ever written, "Sanctification is optional." Nowhere.

The believer's sanctification is the consequence of their justification, both being fully accomplished by Christ in whom the believer stands.

1 Corinthians 1:2
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(See: Titus 3:5)

Hebrews 10:10
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

No man can be accepted by God except he is perfectly righteous (justified) and perfectly set apart (sanctified) unto God. But no man can, by himself, ever be either thing. He must obtain both his justification and his sanctification from Christ in whom he is accepted by God. (Ephesians 1:6) It is not, then, that a man saves himself by living out his sanctified spiritual position in Christ, but that he is already perfectly sanctified BY CHRIST, and thus is accepted by God and saved. Do you see how your works-salvation doctrine has twisted your understanding of the Christian life? I do.

Paul wrote in Galatians 5:24 that they "have crucified the flesh." He explained to the Roman Christians how in chapter 6 of his letter to them. United with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, the Christian person is made BY CHRIST "dead unto sin but alive unto God." They were crucified with Christ that the "body of sin might be destroyed, that, henceforth, they should not serve sin." (Romans 6:6) And so it is that Paul wrote to the Galatians, "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh." The Galatians in Christ, in their spiritual position in him, were already fully sanctified unto God and had only, by faith, to live in the truth of this fact.

And so, living sanctified lives didn't obtain for the Galatians their salvation, but was simply the manifestation of what they had already received from Christ in the Person of the Holy Spirit and who they had become as "new creatures in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

 

[aiki]

Notice in the following Scripture that Paul is instructing and admonishing, not God, but the believer on how to live in the faith - a sanctified life - so they may receive free gift of eternal life.

Romans 6:15-23 (NIV)
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.
20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is a perfect example of how the lens through which you've read this passage has contorted what is written. In this passage, Paul wrote about the Roman believer's identity in Christ, in particular their co-crucifixion with him and the resulting freedom from the power of the "old man" and sin that was theirs in him. Only when he has carefully laid out the truth of the Roman believers's identity in Christ does he then exhort them to reflect that identity, to live it out, all the time.

And so, Paul writes in verse 22 that the Roman Christians "have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God." They were not becoming set free from sin; they were not becoming slaves of God; they already were and so all that remained was to reflect this accomplished reality in how they lived. The result of their position in Christ, who was himself their salvation - as he is ours - was increasing holiness in their practical living and eternal life in heaven with God.

Paul, then, does not write to the Galatians of a salvation they had to earn by their endurance in the faith, but of the living out of an already accomplished spiritual reality. They were already born-again, eternally-secure children of God and so they were to live this fact out all the time.

By a repentant faith, God indwells us by His Spirit, through whom we are set free from sin, but only as we faithfully live, walk, and sow to the Spirit who indwells us (Romans 8:12-13; Galatians 6:7-9; Romans 8:3-4), because many will grieve, quench, and insult the Spirit (Ephesians 4:30-32; 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22; Hebrews 10:24-31). Therefore, by God's choice, His saving work, grace and power of salvation are all accessed and kept by faith in His Son.

And more of the same twisting of God's word. We are already set free from sin in Christ and this is why we may live free of sin. We don't earn such freedom by dint of our living faithfully, walking and sowing to the Spirit. We live this way because of, as a result of, our being "new creatures in Christ," fully redeemed, justified and sanctified in Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Ephesians 4:30-32
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Where is the threat of lost salvation in this passage? Nowhere. It doesn't exist.

Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Why does Paul here write in a generic way of "a man" rather than specifically of believers? Because he is speaking of two different sort of people: the unsaved man who sows to his flesh, as he has, apart from God, no choice but to do, and the one who is saved and so sows to the Spirit, reaping from the Spirit the eternal life found in Christ. Paul has simply described the two states in which a person may live: the unsaved, fleshly state of all unbelievers and the saved, spiritual state of all born-again believers. He is NOT indicating, however, that one may move back-and-forth between these states according to one's success in being a godly person. There is, then, no saved-and-lost doctrine taught in this passage, whatever your works-salvation lens indicates to you. Paul confirms this only a few verses later:

Galatians 6:11-15
11 See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.
12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Paul marks out and condemns those who were trying to tell the Galatians they had to "make a good showing in the flesh" by doing certain things. Rather, it seems to me, like you have been doing, setst777. Paul points out again to the Galatians that it was through the cross of Christ that his crucifixion and resulting freedom from the world was obtained, not by fleshly attempts at obedience to God's commands. Such obedience, Paul explained, is nothing; what really matters, what is the real core of the Christian life, is the believer being a "new creation" in Jesus. Out of this fully-accomplished spiritual reality the believer's obedience arises, not out of the thinking that by raw obedience one can achieve the life God desires His children to live.

Hebrews 10:24-31
24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I read this passage and don't see a works-salvation, saved-and-lost teaching in it but a warning about what happens when a lost person hears the Gospel, obtains a "knowledge of the truth," and continues on in a sinful life, spurning the Good News of salvation. Such a person does as verse 29 describes and so comes under the punishment of God.

The writer of Hebrews, I believe, is writing of the "false brethren," the "tares," within the Church, and so uses "we" in his remarks. There are many within the community of believers, sharing in the work and life of the Church, who have heard the Gospel but have not truly embraced it, but, instead, persist willfully in the rebellion and sin of a spiritually-unregenerate life. Of these, the writer of Hebrews here remarks, warning of the vengeance of God that will fall on such doubly-rebellious people.

And so, you see how the verse and passages you think teach a saved-and-lost, works-salvation doctrine don't appear to me to teach any such thing. Throwing out reams of Scripture, then, doesn't help your case. I don't have on your works-salvation lens and so don't see God's word through it, finding works-salvation everywhere I look in Scripture as a result. The Scripture you assume helps your view actually, from my perspective, does exactly the opposite.

I did quote for you many of the Scriptures that teach and admonish and warn us that we are to endure to the end to be saved, with examples of those who fell away. That does not mean we save ourselves, as you so seriously misunderstand, but that God requires us to endure in our faith to receive His free gift of salvation that He paid for.

See, it is this sort of thinking that baffles me. It is so glaringly apparent that you ARE espousing a "save yourself" doctrine that, when you deny this is so and then immediately affirm exactly what you've just denied, I find myself actually quite creeped out.

"...we are to endure to the end to be saved..."

"That doesn't mean we save ourselves..."

"...God requires us to endure in our faith to receive His free gift of salvation..."

Yikes. Do you honestly not see the glaring contradiction in these statements? I do.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sanctification really is not a 2nd work. Rather, when we repent and believe, we have now sanctified ourselves to God.

This sanctification of ourselves to God is the only faith by which the Spirit of God will indwell us, leading our faith commitment to victory, but only as we continue in the faith - living, walking, and sowing to the Spirit who indwells us.

So, as we sanctify ourselves to God by faith, God's Spirit is working His sanctifying work in our lives.

This is all one process.

Consider these Passage again.

Galatians 5:24-25
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Blessings

Actually, when I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by being saved by God's grace and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.) (Note: The best way to describe the Provisional Atonement is like a man who paid the price to pay off your debts by his handing you a check to be debt free; But it is up to you to receive the check, deposit it into your checking account, and pay off those you are in debt to; It's a gift, but like all good gifts in life, you have to receive the gift and use it properly to be of any benefit). Jesus provided an atonement, but it is up to us to receive it to personally apply to our lives by having a proper faith. Men will remain as sinners if they reject the Provisional Atonement of Jesus Christ.

#2. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by being saved by God's grace and by properly applying the Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly God's grace through faith in Christ, and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

God's grace, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are saved by His grace, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, actually your pride is preventing you from seeing the Gospel which calls all people everywhere to repent and believe in Lord Jesus to be saved.

Was the Apostle Paul preaching the correct Gospel in the following - Yes or No?

Romans 1:16-17 (NIV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

Acts 20:20-21 (WEB) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

What about Lord Jesus?

Luke 9:23-24 (WEB) 23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Once you make salvation conditioned on man, his believing, repentance, baptism, decision, anything, you promote salvation by works, totally contrary to scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@setst777

Being saved by God's grace through faith:
(the 1st work of God):

Believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried, and had risen again three days later on your behalf, and accepting Jesus as your Savior, and seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer. This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace.

Scripture verses that support this:

1. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. “ (Ephesians 2:8-9).
   
   
2. “What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.” (Romans 4:1-6).
   
   
3. “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:4-7).
   
   
4. “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
   
   
5. “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
   
   
6. “And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14).
   
   
7. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1-2).
   
   
8. “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:26-28).
   
   
9. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners” (Galatians 2:17).
   
   
10. “...and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Galatians 2:20-21).
    
    
11. “...not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9).
    
    
12. Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: (Colossians 1:12-14).
    
    
13. “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:4-7).
    
    
14. “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (Ephesians 2:13-17).
    
    
15. ”Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” (Romans 3:20-30).

Side Note:

It also includes one in being born again spiritually, as well (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures)).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@setst777

Sanctification of the Spirit to live holy by faith:
(After we are saved by God's grace):
(the 2nd Work of God):

Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work (because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer.

Scripture verses that support this:


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Once you make salvation conditioned on man, his believing, repentance, baptism, decision, anything, you promote salvation by works, totally contrary to scripture.

Salvation is neither by a belief alone in Jesus, and neither is it by works alone (without God's grace). We first need to be saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the Law, and then afterwards, we need to enter the Sanctification Process or cleansing of the Holy Spirit; Works of faith is a part of our Sanctification, and it is a necessary component of salvation (after we are saved by God's grace).

How so?

Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

Also, it is written:

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Once you make salvation conditioned on man, his believing, repentance, baptism, decision, anything, you promote salvation by works, totally contrary to scripture.

For what is the opposite of obeying God (works)?
It's disobedience to God and being lazy and in sin.
It is to justify sin and evil in God's name. That is what one must do if they believe it is all grace. So while you may mud sling in a believer in doing good as a part of God's instructions in His Word, you must face the reality that the opposite side of doing good is simply doing evil.

So do you believe a Christian is justified by grace + doing evil works?
For do you believe a Christian must sin again?
If so, you believe a Christian is saved by God's grace + the believer sinning.
If so, how can God agree with that kind of plan of salvation?
God cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous, and good.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No you make it conditioned on faith, and thats prideful, it rejects Grace !

Without faith it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (See: Hebrews 11:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Very appropriate quotes!

Blessings

Thank you.

May God bless you, as well.

 

[Brightfame52]

Salvation is neither by a belief alone in Jesus, and neither is it by works alone (without God's grace). We first need to be saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the Law, and then afterwards, we need to enter the Sanctification Process or cleansing of the Holy Spirit; Works of faith is a part of our Sanctification, and it is a necessary component of salvation (after we are saved by God's grace).

How so?

Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

Also, it is written:

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

Sounds like more works Salvation to me, conditionalism.

 

[Brightfame52]

For what is the opposite of obeying God (works)?
It's disobedience to God and being lazy and in sin.
It is to justify sin and evil in God's name. That is what one must do if they believe it is all grace. So while you may mud sling in a believer in doing good as a part of God's instructions in His Word, you must face the reality that the opposite side of doing good is simply doing evil.

So do you believe a Christian is justified by grace + doing evil works?
For do you believe a Christian must sin again?
If so, you believe a Christian is saved by God's grace + the believer sinning.
If so, how can God agree with that kind of plan of salvation?
God cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous, and good.

More conditionalism. Friend Salvation is by Grace. 100% of God

 

[Brightfame52]

Without faith it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (See: Hebrews 11:6).

Okay, I have no problem with that verse. But if you are meaning that a person is saved because they please God, thats salvation by works, condition.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sounds like more works Salvation to me, conditionalism.

And unconditional Salvation sounds like a justification of doing sin and evil to me. For if doing good is not required, then one will simply sin and do evil in God's name. George Sodini thought this way. George Sodini killed a bunch of people and took his own life and he wrote in his own suicide letter that he would be saved by a belief alone in Jesus and that salvation did not depend on works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay, I have no problem with that verse. But if you are meaning that a person is saved because they please God, thats salvation by works, condition.

Yes, you do have a problem with Hebrews 11:6.

You said, I quote:
“No you make it conditioned on faith, and thats prideful, it rejects Grace!”
Quote by Brightfame52.​

Yet, Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by God's grace THROUGH FAITH.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

More conditionalism. Friend Salvation is by Grace. 100% of God

You are not reading what I wrote. Please go back and look at what I said.
I asked you questions in regards to your belief.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sounds like more works Salvation to me, conditionalism.

Oh, so then you are condemning Paul for writing Titus 1:16?
If not, then how do you understand what he wrote in Titus 1:16?
If you refuse to explain it, then I am just going to assume you are ignoring parts of the Bible that you don't like in favor of a foreign belief (outside of the Bible).

 

[timothyu]

God says man's will bad, God's will good. We repent or stay loyal to ourselves, having faith in the will of God or faith in our own self serving ways. One path leads to the Kingdom, the other gives us all the rewards we can gather in this life and no more. Simple as that.

 

[Brightfame52]

And unconditional Salvation sounds like a justification of doing sin and evil to me. For if doing good is not required, then one will simply sin and do evil in God's name. George Sodini thought this way. George Sodini killed a bunch of people and took his own life and he wrote in his own suicide letter that he would be saved by a belief alone in Jesus and that salvation did not depend on works.

Conditional salvation is sin, it is the sin of pride and denys the Glory of God in Jesus Christ, by which Salvation is by Grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, you do have a problem with Hebrews 11:6.

You said, I quote:
“No you make it conditioned on faith, and thats prideful, it rejects Grace!”
Quote by Brightfame52.​

Yet, Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by God's grace THROUGH FAITH.

No I dont have a problem with it. The issue is you condition salvation on your faith, thats works.