He wants EVERYONE saved?

[98cwitr]

Do you believe that all man was tainted by the actions of one man?

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Now...did I choose to be a son of adam or was I just born that way? The same way, do I choose to be a Son of God of am I reborn that way?

 

[Skala]

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Now...did I choose to be a son of adam or was I just born that way? The same way, do I choose to be a Son of God of am I reborn that way?

Exactly. Seems obvious.

The Bible uses three analogies to describe our conversion:

1) birth
2) creation
3) resurrection

You can't do anything to affect your own birth (you aren't alive yet!)
You can't do anything to create yourself (you don't exist!)
You can't do anything to resurrect yourself (you're dead!)

There's a reason the Bible uses these analogies. It puts all the work on God's side.

 

[SeventhValley]

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Now...did I choose to be a son of adam or was I just born that way? The same way, do I choose to be a Son of God of am I reborn that way?

Now do you believe Jesus was less effective than Adam? Or do you believe sin is more powerful than God?

Romans 5:12-18
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Death through Adam and Life through
Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world
through one man, and death through sin, in
this way death spread to all men, because all
sinned. [ a] 13 In fact, sin was in the world
before the law, but sin is not charged to a
person’s account when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to
Moses, even over those who did not sin in the
likeness of Adam’s transgression. He is a
prototype [b ] of the Coming One.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if
by the one man’s trespass the many died, how
much more have the grace of God and the gift
overflowed to the many by the grace of the
one man, Jesus Christ. 16 And the gift is not
like the one man’s sin, because from one sin
came the judgment, resulting in condemnation,
but from many trespasses came the gift,
resulting in justification. [ c] 17 Since by the
one man’s trespass, death reigned through that
one man, how much more will those who
receive the overflow of grace and the gift of
righteousness reign in life through the one
man, Jesus Christ.
18 So then, as through one trespass there is
condemnation for everyone, so also through
one righteous act there is life-giving
justification [d ] for everyone.

 

[98cwitr]

Now do you believe Jesus was less effective than Adam? Or do you believe sin is more powerful than God?

Romans 5:12-18
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Death through Adam and Life through
Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world
through one man, and death through sin, in
this way death spread to all men, because all
sinned. [ a] 13 In fact, sin was in the world
before the law, but sin is not charged to a
person’s account when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to
Moses, even over those who did not sin in the
likeness of Adam’s transgression. He is a
prototype [b ] of the Coming One.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if
by the one man’s trespass the many died, how
much more have the grace of God and the gift
overflowed to the many by the grace of the
one man, Jesus Christ. 16 And the gift is not
like the one man’s sin, because from one sin
came the judgment, resulting in condemnation,
but from many trespasses came the gift,
resulting in justification. [ c] 17 Since by the
one man’s trespass, death reigned through that
one man, how much more will those who
receive the overflow of grace and the gift of
righteousness reign in life through the one
man, Jesus Christ.
18 So then, as through one trespass there is
condemnation for everyone, so also through
one righteous act there is life-giving
justification [d ] for everyone.

So what's you're point? Nothing I said would suggest anything of the sort. Careful with verse 18 there sir! Don't want to promote universalism! As you can see "everyone" isn't literal there, same as "world" in John 3:16, and "all men" in 2 Peter 3.

Christ is more effective than any son of Man...and God reigns over sin! For Christ will come and destroy Satan and Death, and they will not be able to reign over us any more!

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They replied, "Nothing." "If He has chosen you, then God will regenerate you to new life."

Don't even demons believe?

You must be reborn...we've been over this. We have already acknowledged that faith comes from God, not ourselves. We must believe, but we must also have a heart capable of believing in order to do so...obviously!

@forsake comment: http://www.christianforums.com/t7616332/

 

[SeventhValley]

God made everyone able to know him. None have a excuse. If God did not allow all to accept or reject him they would have one.

Romans 1:18-20
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
The Guilt of the Gentile World
18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven
against all godlessness and unrighteousness of
people who by their unrighteousness suppress
the truth, 19 since what can be known [a ]
about God is evident among them, because
God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible
attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine
nature, have been clearly seen since the
creation of the world, being understood
through what He has made. As a result, people
are without excuse.


But people who are able and have no excuse reject God knowingly even though the cross he gives the whole world a chance to be saved.

Romans 1:25 HCSB

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.

 

[Legionwrex]

The Bible already answered this question. Just stop the debate already. No matter what, we (I assume) can all agree that it is possible for God to desire something but not necessarily have it happen for whatever reason (not that God is not all-powerful to make it happen, but rather he has some reason to not to interject).

With that in mind, I think I can safely say that we can all agree that in some way or extent, God does desire everyone come to repentance. However the exact nature of this desire and it's extent is a continued debate that will most likely continue until Christ returns, and then we'll know.

 

[98cwitr]

God made everyone able to know him. None have a excuse. If God did not allow all to accept or reject him they would have one.

Romans 1:18-20
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
The Guilt of the Gentile World
18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven
against all godlessness and unrighteousness of
people who by their unrighteousness suppress
the truth, 19 since what can be known [a ]
about God is evident among them, because
God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible
attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine
nature, have been clearly seen since the
creation of the world, being understood
through what He has made. As a result, people
are without excuse.


But people who are able and have no excuse reject God knowingly even though the cross he gives the whole world a chance to be saved.

Romans 1:25 HCSB

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.

I agree...this is why we are held accountable (the answer to the question in Romans 9:19).

 

[FreeinChrist]

Whats the meaning of Baptist anyway? Why the naming after John the Baptist?

Baptists are not named after John the Baptist. The name came about because they baptized converts via full immersion and did not baptize infants. Like the Anabaptists, they believed in 'believers baptism'.

 

[FredVB]

It is people's own fault if they reject redemption for reconciliation with Yahweh God, and so it is not God's fault. Otherwise it would be God's fault, but those who reject this salvation are accountable, they have no excuse, if God was not having it possible for them to accept him and his way, then they would have that one excuse. But they don't.

 

[98cwitr]

It is people's own fault if they reject redemption for reconciliation with Yahweh God, and so it is not God's fault. Otherwise it would be God's fault, but those who reject this salvation are accountable, they have no excuse, if God was not having it possible for them to accept him and his way, then they would have that one excuse. But they don't.

Romans 11:8New International Version (NIV)

8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[a]

 

[Bluelion]

Please help me reconcile the following two verses

2 Peter 3:9
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
New International Version (NIV)
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

How can you reconcile "everyone" in the 2 Peter 3 verse with God assurance of condemnation in the 2 Thess. 2 verse?

Greek word used for everyone in 2 Peter is:

πᾶς,a \{pas}
1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

The 2a definition seems to allow us to reconcile both verses. Just a thought.

We also see "anyone," which is

τίς,ri \{tis}
1) a certain, a certain one 2) some, some time, a while

So could this be properly translated as:

Instead he is patient with you, not wanting any [of you] to perish, but [all of you] to come to repentance.

Then the question is, who is the audience?!

Peter is a testimony against those at the end. The lawless one is sent because the world would not repent but loved illusions more than God, so God gave them a powerful one. Like when pharaoh hardened His heart against God willing, so God harden it further as punishment against Him, as Judgement.

God is still calling people to repent at the end and some are saved this way at the end. The end comes not because God ran out of patience but because the Blood of God's children demanded justice.

Just my two cents take it or leave it.

 

[morse86]

Jesus came to do the will of god and this is the will of god:
John 6:39: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

God wants everyone to be saved. The bible states Jesus died for ALL men (it didn't say "except these men").

 

[Bluelion]

Jesus came to do the will of god and this is the will of god:
John 6:39: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

God wants everyone to be saved. The bible states Jesus died for ALL men (it didn't say "except these men").

what you quote says all He gave me. He is speaking of His children He will not lose.

 

[Jonathan95]

Please help me reconcile the following two verses

2 Peter 3:9
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
New International Version (NIV)
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

How can you reconcile "everyone" in the 2 Peter 3 verse with God assurance of condemnation in the 2 Thess. 2 verse?

Greek word used for everyone in 2 Peter is:

πᾶς,a \{pas}
1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

The 2a definition seems to allow us to reconcile both verses. Just a thought.

We also see "anyone," which is

τίς,ri \{tis}
1) a certain, a certain one 2) some, some time, a while

So could this be properly translated as:

Instead he is patient with you, not wanting any [of you] to perish, but [all of you] to come to repentance.

Then the question is, who is the audience?!

Verse 12 says those who were condemned had not believed in the truth. So that implies that free will has a part in this. They chose to delight in wickedness.

 

[morse86]

what you quote says all He gave me. He is speaking of His children He will not lose.

No it doesn't. Jesus says through him, the believers will have EVERLASTING life. What does everlasting mean? It means forever.

So if they have everlasting life, why would jesus say the will of god is so that jesus may not loose any?!?!?!?

What do the other verses say? It all says that Jesus died for all of mens sin...should ANY believe...they are saved. The will of god is that through jesus, all shall be saved.

 

[Bluelion]

No it doesn't. Jesus says through him, the believers will have EVERLASTING life. What does everlasting mean? It means forever.

So if they have everlasting life, why would jesus say the will of god is so that jesus may not loose any?!?!?!?

What do the other verses say? It all says that Jesus died for all of mens sin...should ANY believe...they are saved. The will of god is that through jesus, all shall be saved.

John 6:39: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Its right there in bold.

 

[morse86]

What did God give Jesus? You need to re-read the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[Bluelion]

What did God give Jesus? You need to re-read the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Well if you don't understand what He was saying ok, have fun .

 

[98cwitr]

Verse 12 says those who were condemned had not believed in the truth. So that implies that free will has a part in this. They chose to delight in wickedness.

Only if you make the assumption that belief is self-manifested. I don't believe that it is! See Romans 11:8

 

[Jonathan95]

Only if you make the assumption that belief is self-manifested. I don't believe that it is! See Romans 11:8

Many jews had seen Jesus on earth and saw him doing miracles and heard him preach, yet didn't believe.

That's different than most people today.

That verse doesn't mean God gives people eyes that don't see etc without wanting them to be saved or without them having had a chance to get saved first, because the same term is used in some/all of the Gospels about people who wouldn't believe.