He wants EVERYONE saved?

[SeventhValley]

How? That description is 100% pure Calvinism and a denial of Arminianism.

Regeneration is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit, to which the sinner responds in repentance and faith.

That's Calvinism, not Arminianism. Arminianism says that faith leads to/results in regeneration. This statement is saying that regeneration leads to/results in faith.

BF&M"sinner responds in repentance "

Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. Man then is given by God the ability to accept or reject him. Faith comes from God but God also gives us the ability to reject him.

In calvinism the sinner cannot respond to regeneration it is predestined on him like a robot is programmed.

Not sure how you get Calvinism out of the BF&M.

 

[Hentenza]

Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. Man then is given by God the ability to accept or reject him. Faith comes from God but God also gives us the ability to reject him.

So either God has two realities (remember that we agree that He knows all there is to know) or He is contingent on man. Which one is it?

 

[SeventhValley]

So either God has two realities (remember that we agree that He knows all there is to know) or He is contingent on man. Which one is it?

God gives man the ability so it is still God's will. God dose not want a robot but a being that can glorify him by choice.

God also foreknows what those free choices will be as he is not bound by time. It is plain in the Bible.

If you are predestined before forknowlege as Calvinist say then all actions are God's will and sin as well as good cannot exist.

 

[98cwitr]

BF&M"sinner responds in repentance "

Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. Man then is given by God the ability to accept or reject him. Faith comes from God but God also gives us the ability to reject him.

In calvinism the sinner cannot respond to regeneration it is predestined on him like a robot is programmed.

Not sure how you get Calvinism out of the BF&M.

So if God grants faith, then it is God that enables a man to repent (or not), not the man. Not granting faith will 100% result in man rejecting God...and there lies the entire premise of what we're saying...it's not something man chooses, God does the choosing. To suggest otherwise is completely false logic and reasoning.

 

[98cwitr]

God gives man the ability so it is still God's will. God dose not want a robot but a being that can glorify him by choice. There is no ability to deviate from that which is foreknown...therefore there is no "choice" on our end.

God also foreknows what those free choices will be as he is not bound by time. It is plain in the Bible. <--contradiction. Choices cannot be free if they are foreknown.

If you are predestined before forknowlege as Calvinist say then all actions are God's will and sin as well as good cannot exist. <--Contradiction, sin can exist, for God created Satan for a reason.

Comments inline.

 

[SeventhValley]

So if God grants faith, then it is God that enables a man to repent (or not), not the man. Not granting faith will 100% result in man rejecting God...and there lies the entire premise of what we're saying...it's not something man chooses, God does the choosing. To suggest otherwise is completely false logic and reasoning.

You are almost thier God calls all not just the elect the elect are the ones who continue on to finish the race and do not shipwreck thier faith. God of course forknows the actions of those who will continue on in sanctification. This is the Bible.

God calls all to himself and wants none to perish but man. So God spreads the Gospel to the whole world and calls men through thier hearts. Then God allows man to choose to follow him or not to. If you drop out of sanctification according to the Bible you loose your salvation.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

3 For this is God&#8217;s will, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 so that each of you knows how to control his own body[b] in sanctification and honor, 5 not with lustful desires, like the Gentiles who don&#8217;t know God. 6 This means one must not transgress against and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger of all these offenses,[c] as we also previously told and warned you. 7 For God has not called us to impurity but to sanctification. 8 Therefore, the person who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who also gives you His Holy Spirit.
John 12:48-49


48 The one who rejects Me and doesn&#8217;t accept My sayings has this as his judge:[a] The word I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a command as to what I should say and what I should speak.

 

[SeventhValley]

Comments inline.

Forknowledge dose not make a choice restricted that is what Open theist think.

Forknowledge is just future knowledge of free actions. It has no effect on the actions themselves.

 

[Hentenza]

God gives man the ability so it is still God's will.

So if it is God's will that someone accepts Him and if it is God's will that someone does not accept Him, then how is that different from the biblical teaching of predestination?

God dose not want a robot but a being that can glorify him by choice.

This contradicts your previous sentence.

God also foreknows what those free choices will be as he is not bound by time. It is plain in the Bible.

God is not bound by time but He works IN time. God knows all there is to know including all free choices, otherwise, God would not be all knowing.

If you are predestined before forknowlege as Calvinist say then all actions are God's will and sin as well as good cannot exist.

Correction. The bible specifically teaches predestination. This is not a Calvinist concoction.

 

[Hentenza]

Forknowledge dose not make a choice restricted that is what Open theist think.

What you promoting here is that God is contingent on man since He either knows all or He does not. If God is contingent on man then God cannot be the first cause and He is no longer a necessary being since now He can choose to cease to exist.

Forknowledge is just future knowledge of free actions. It has no effect on the actions themselves.

So if God knows that you are going to choose something then can you choose against what God already knows you will choose?

 

[RisingSpirit]

That is only the Particular Baptist confession.

You still have the Six principle Baptists,General Baptists,Free Will Baptists,Missionary Baptists and other Baptist churhes throughout history that never held to that.

You can only say she is not a good "Particular Baptist"(Calvinist Baptist) and I doubt she would want to be one

So the Particular Baptist are Calvinist
and
General Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Missionary Baptists and other Baptist churhes are armininan,
------------------right?

 

[Skala]

BF&M"sinner responds in repentance "

Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. Man then is given by God the ability to accept or reject him. Faith comes from God but God also gives us the ability to reject him.

In calvinism the sinner cannot respond to regeneration it is predestined on him like a robot is programmed.

Not sure how you get Calvinism out of the BF&M.

I don't think you understand what regeneration, nor Calvinism.

Regeneration is synonymous with being born again. It's a work of the Holy Spirit who resurrects us from spiritual deadness to life.

The BFoM clearly says that we are regenerated, and as a result, we have faith in Christ.

That's 100% cure Calvinism. Arminianism states the opposite: that we have faith in Christ, and are then born again.

Also, your remarks about robots show that you are running out of steam. Calvinism says that humans are real people who make real decisions based on what they desire. If a person rejects Christ it is because he desires to do so. If he accepts Christ it is because he desires to do so.

The Bible plainly teaches that nobody would desire Christ unless God had intervened by grace to change us and take off our blindfolds and loosen the shackles of sin that we are enslaved to.

Yet you ditch this biblical language with pejorative nonsense like "programmed like a robot". Maybe the reason you have such knee-jerk reactions to a proper understanding of regeneration is because your own theology doesn't know what regeneration is.

 

[RisingSpirit]

....Baptists are historically Calvinistic.

Can you tell us a little about that part of the history and how the General Baptist changed their minds on interpretations to suit man?

 

[RisingSpirit]

... It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. ...

Is repentance the same as easy decisionism?

 

[RisingSpirit]

... Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. ....

Calvinism says God extends Grace to all regenerated man enough to be able to choose to repent.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The way I see it, if you're an Arminian/Wesleyan Baptist, you're really just a Methodist. Baptists are historically Calvinistic.

That may be your view, however, there were the General Baptists who are Arminian since about 1608:

A Primer on Baptist History

The earliest General Baptist Church was thought to be founded about 1608 or 1609. Its chief founder was John Smyth (1570-1612) and it was located in Holland.

Arminian Baptists have just as long a history as Reformed Baptists.

Let's not get into who is the true Baptist here (Calvinists or Arminians), okay?

 

[RisingSpirit]

....Arminian Baptists have just as long a history as Reformed Baptists....

Whats the meaning of Baptist anyway? Why the naming after John the Baptist?

 

[98cwitr]

Forknowledge dose not make a choice restricted that is what Open theist think.

Forknowledge is just future knowledge of free actions. It has no effect on the actions themselves.

Doesn't add up, sorry. You're failing to acknowledge that God as the Creator also. If God didn't want a person to do something (ie: that would lead them into damnation), then He simply could have chosen to not create them.

 

[Skala]

BF&M"sinner responds in repentance "

Arminianism says God extends Grace to all regenerating man enough to be able to choose to repent. Man then is given by God the ability to accept or reject him. Faith comes from God but God also gives us the ability to reject him.

In calvinism the sinner cannot respond to regeneration it is predestined on him like a robot is programmed.

Not sure how you get Calvinism out of the BF&M.

You're confusing regeneration with prevenient grace.

 

[SeventhValley]

You're confusing regeneration with prevenient grace.

No it is part of it.

Do you believe that all man was tainted by the actions of one man?

 

[Skala]

No it is part of it.

Do you believe that all man was tainted by the actions of one man?

Regeneration is when we are born again.

Prevenient grace is the Arminian doctrine that God enables all people to choose Jesus.

Go back and read your post, you confused regeneration with prevenient grace.