Has Jesus Already Returned?

[anetazo]

False teachings are rampant in these end times. Some people lack faith. Others have a subverted mind. Its written in Peter, judgement starts with house of God. The false brethren are on Jesus hit list. Get the picture. Micah 3:5. Thus says the Lord concerning the prophets that make My people err, that bite with their teeth and cry, Peace; and he that puts not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. Delusional preachers who distort God's word to their ego or money crusade. Jesus is very angry with these lying preachers. At the 7th trump, the fake shepherds go with satan into the pit during the millennium. False preachers are spirtual murderers. God hates lying. 3:7. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded; yea, they shall all cover their lips; for their is no answer from God. These fake preachers don't have holy spirit. Jesus isn't going to listen to them. Out of thier delusions they think Jesus approves of them. They have subverted minds. Look at tv preachers, their gimmicks to get money from people. These fake preachers prey on ignorance. Jesus will hold them accountable near future. No one gets away with anything. 3:11. The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money; yet will they lean upon the Lord, and say, is not the Lord among us? None evil can come upon us. Corrupt politicians who accept bribes from lobbyists. Some judge's accept bribes. Corruption. Some churches pass around the tithes plate 3 or 5 times during service. But the flocks are left spirtualty wanting for nourishment of God's word. The pastor or reverend deprives the congregation of the meat of God's word. After 30 years, theirs still no spirtual growth. Get the picture. Thier spirtualty dead. What progress have some denominations made in last 50 years. Is it money or is Gods word being taught ??. Who's benefiting ??. Many watchman are in dereliction of duty. Failed to teach God's word to their flocks. Warn them antichrist comes 6th trump. At the 7th trump, Jesus is going to take care of the false brethren. Those who love and serve God, and teach sound doctrine, have nothing to worry about. It's the fake shepherds who need to worry. I documented this.

 

[3 Resurrections]

If He comes again it is only for those who are saved as Paul says for those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time not for sin but for salvation so it could be in heaven or millennium on earth then one is saved that He will make sure they believe to prove in that they will not even be able to reject Him they already received Him so is not wrong to we are commanded not to believe others who come in His name.

Matthew 24:26-28
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

This Matthew 24:26-28 verse was already showing signs of fulfillment back in the book of Acts. Jesus had warned His disciples not to go out after those "false christs" which some "false prophets" of His day would be promoting. These "false prophets" would be urging others to go out into the desert after these "false christs". In Acts 21:38, an Egyptian had already led out a group of four thousand men out into the wilderness of Judea, attempting to start a rebellion against Rome with the Egyptian as their military "messiah" leader. This Egyptian leader's rebellion had happened before AD 60, because AD 60 was the year Paul was imprisoned and put on trial in Acts 21-23.

Christ also predicted that the "false prophets" would also be claiming that the "messiah" leader would be showing up in the "secret chambers". This is important to dating when these "false christ" claims would be made. You see, the "secret chambers" referred to two special rooms in Jerusalem's Second Temple, called "the chamber of secrets". Anonymous donations for the poor (and also for the temple's upkeep) were stored in these "secret chambers". Out of these anonymous donations, distributions were made to the poor at intervals, also anonymously. That means Christ's prediction for these "false prophets" would have to be fulfilled when there was actually still a Second Temple in existence with its "secret chambers" being used. That means Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:26-28 could NOT apply to ANY TIME WHATEVER after that Second Temple with its "secret chambers" was destroyed totally down to the foundations.

 

[mikeforjesus]

It seems often as revelations also does the warning and circumstances are found in every generation something similar but it will be at end too as people are to expect to wait to the second coming of Christ which did not happen in that generation.

 

[parousia70]

It seems often as revelations also does the warning and circumstances are found in every generation something similar but it will be at end too as people are to expect to wait to the second coming of Christ which did not happen in that generation.

So Jesus was mistaken when He said: "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."?

Or worse yet, He was Lying?

 

[pasifika]

I came across a Bible study group on Facebook that is trying to say that Jesus has already returned in the flesh, in secret, and the Second Coming in the clouds will be when Christ returns in the Spirit. I have never heard of this. I always understood that Jesus will return in the clouds of Heaven, and then all the righteous people will be caught up with the Lord. I left the Bible study group last night in disgust. I don't think this is a true teaching.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning
that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24: 26, 27

I honestly don't understand why they believe this, and this group is constantly pushing this idea that Jesus has already come back in the flesh, in secret, and then will return again in the Spirit. I am thinking of blocking these people on Facebook today because they are very pushy.

I was on that bible study group, for a couple of weeks, but then I realised the Jesus they are talking about that has already returned is now appears in the form of a woman and she lives in China. I think this religion is called the "Eastern lightning".

Don't be deceive, read your bible and pray everyday.

 

[Bob corrigan]

I came across a Bible study group on Facebook that is trying to say that Jesus has already returned in the flesh, in secret, and the Second Coming in the clouds will be when Christ returns in the Spirit. I have never heard of this. I always understood that Jesus will return in the clouds of Heaven, and then all the righteous people will be caught up with the Lord. I left the Bible study group last night in disgust. I don't think this is a true teaching.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning
that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24: 26, 27

I honestly don't understand why they believe this, and this group is constantly pushing this idea that Jesus has already come back in the flesh, in secret, and then will return again, and false prophets in the Spirit. I am thinking of blocking these people on Facebook today because they are very pushy.

it doesn't matter why people believe what they do. People can believe what they want. Don't try to figure it out. As Jesus said, Mt 15:14 Let them alone. They are the blind leaders of the blind. If the blind lead the blind, they shall all fall in the ditch.

 

[mikeforjesus]

So Jesus was mistaken when He said: "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."?

Or worse yet, He was Lying?

Even John Chrysostom refers to meaning of that to be there will remain Christian’s to the end his faith will not cease till to see all these things.

“After this, that they might not straightway return to it again, and say, When? he brings to their remembrance the things that had been said, saying, Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled! All these things. What things? I pray you. Those about Jerusalem, those about the wars, about the famines, about the pestilences, about the earthquakes, about the false Christs, about the false prophets, about the sowing of the gospel everywhere, the seditions, the tumults, all the other things, which we said were to occur until His coming. How then, one may ask, did He say, This generation? Speaking not of the generation then living, but of that of the believers. For He is wont to distinguish a generation not by times only, but also by the mode of religious service, and practice; as when He says, This is the generation of them that seek the Lord.”

Writings of Saint John Chrysostom. The Gospel of St. Matthew.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Even John Chrysostom refers to meaning of that to be there will remain Christian’s to the end his faith will not cease till to see all these things.

“After this, that they might not straightway return to it again, and say, When? he brings to their remembrance the things that had been said, saying, Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled! All these things. What things? I pray you. Those about Jerusalem, those about the wars, about the famines, about the pestilences, about the earthquakes, about the false Christs, about the false prophets, about the sowing of the gospel everywhere, the seditions, the tumults, all the other things, which we said were to occur until His coming. How then, one may ask, did He say, This generation? Speaking not of the generation then living, but of that of the believers. For He is wont to distinguish a generation not by times only, but also by the mode of religious service, and practice; as when He says, This is the generation of them that seek the Lord.”

Writings of Saint John Chrysostom. The Gospel of St. Matthew.

Looks as if John Chrysostom was yet another who didn't get the point either.

 

[parousia70]

Even John Chrysostom refers to meaning of that to be there will remain Christian’s to the end his faith will not cease till to see all these things.

“After this, that they might not straightway return to it again, and say, When? he brings to their remembrance the things that had been said, saying, Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled! All these things. What things? I pray you. Those about Jerusalem, those about the wars, about the famines, about the pestilences, about the earthquakes, about the false Christs, about the false prophets, about the sowing of the gospel everywhere, the seditions, the tumults, all the other things, which we said were to occur until His coming. How then, one may ask, did He say, This generation? Speaking not of the generation then living, but of that of the believers. For He is wont to distinguish a generation not by times only, but also by the mode of religious service, and practice; as when He says, This is the generation of them that seek the Lord.”

Writings of Saint John Chrysostom. The Gospel of St. Matthew.

So when you said:
"the second coming of Christ which did not happen in that generation" , you were "Speaking not of the generation then living, but of that of the believers."?

How are we supposed to discern you mean "the generation then living" when you assert we must understand the term to mean something comletely different than that?

 

[Bob corrigan]

That is the common misunderstanding about who composed the group of "alive" ones Paul was talking about. Pay careful attention to the word "remain" in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17. This is "perileipomenoi" in the Greek, which indicates a reserved status for these individuals. These had been set apart for a particular purpose. These "alive" and "remaining" ones were those in Paul's days who had been MADE ALIVE by the resurrection process (such as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints, Lazarus, Dorcas, Jairus' daughter, etc.). None of these died again a second time, which would have been contrary to Hebrews 9:27-28 and the one-time-only appointment with death for all mankind.

These "alive" and "remaining" resurrected ones would not ascend to heaven before those other dead saints who were still in the ground in those days. This was the comfort which Paul was giving to the grieving saints who thought their dead loved ones had missed the resurrection process entirely. Those "alive" and "remaining" resurrected ones were waiting on earth in their glorified bodies in Paul's days until the next resurrection event occurred, in which they would then be able to join those who came out of the ground at that time, meeting the Lord together in the air.

Nobody escapes this "As in Adam ALL DIE" inclusion. That applies to ANYBODY left on earth - saved or unsaved - for the resurrection in our future. Even if it lasts for only a minute, ALL humanity MUST pass through the death process before the righteous DEAD are changed. There is absolutely no promise in scripture that all the saints alive at Christ's return can ascend to heaven without dying FIRST. No transfiguration promise is ever given to us that will enable us to avoid the death process.

The "we shall not all sleep" promise Paul was giving the saints meant "we shall ALL not sleep, but we shall ALL be changed". NONE of the saints who die in Christ will remain asleep in the ground, but they will ALL be changed from a DEAD physical body in the grave into an incorruptible body fit for heaven.

The rapture text has been misunderstood for quite a while.

Your post has left me shaking my head. Specifically, your use of the word perilepomenoi, which from what I can determine, isn't a Greek word at all, in that it doesn't exist. You see, I do study and one of the most important parts when studying Scripture is to find the original Greek or Hebrew word and, very importantly, to define the original word. Because of this, I have a number of word study tools for both Hebrew and Greek. And the net is a great place to do research.
I didn't find this word in my Greek dictionaries, lexicons, or Theological word study books. I typed it into my browser and it never appeared as a word. When I looked at my interlinear, I did find that the Greek word translated as "remain" is the Greek word perileipo which means, according to;
NAS Exhaustive Concordance: Word origin; from peri and leipo, to be left remaining.

Bill Mounce: To leave remaining, to remain, survive, 1Thes 4:15.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon: to leave over, to remain, to survive.

Strongs New Testament Lexical Dictionary: to leave over, to remain, to survive.

Interestingly, all 4 of these different sources agree on the meaning, so the translators were correct in using the English word "remain." Not one of them mentions anything about "status" or "reserved status." According to how you spelled your word, there should be a Greek suffix that would have been added to "perileipo," that being "menoi." I discovered that there is no Greek suffix "menoi." In fact, there is no Greek suffix that indicates "status."
As one who actually studies Scripture, I always enjoy reading something from another who does actual study. But when someone has to resort to using a made-up word makes me shake my head and ask the question, Why would someone use a made-up word? I wasn't even looking at this topic, but when I turned on my machine, your post was right there on the screen. So, seeing an unfamiliar Greek word and your explanation caused me to research this. Perhaps you should recheck your sources on this matter.

 

[Der Alte]

Your post has left me shaking my head. Specifically, your use of the word perilepomenoi, which from what I can determine, isn't a Greek word at all, in that it doesn't exist. You see, I do study and one of the most important parts when studying Scripture is to find the original Greek or Hebrew word and, very importantly, to define the original word. Because of this, I have a number of word study tools for both Hebrew and Greek. And the net is a great place to do research.
I didn't find this word in my Greek dictionaries, lexicons, or Theological word study books. I typed it into my browser and it never appeared as a word. When I looked at my interlinear, I did find that the Greek word translated as "remain" is the Greek word perileipo which means, according to;
NAS Exhaustive Concordance: Word origin; from peri and leipo, to be left remaining.
Bill Mounce: To leave remaining, to remain, survive, 1Thes 4:15.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: to leave over, to remain, to survive.
Strongs New Testament Lexical Dictionary: to leave over, to remain, to survive.
Interestingly, all 4 of these different sources agree on the meaning, so the translators were correct in using the English word "remain." Not one of them mentions anything about "status" or "reserved status." According to how you spelled your word, there should be a Greek suffix that would have been added to "perileipo," that being "menoi." I discovered that there is no Greek suffix "menoi." In fact, there is no Greek suffix that indicates "status."
As one who actually studies Scripture, I always enjoy reading something from another who does actual study. But when someone has to resort to using a made-up word makes me shake my head and ask the question, Why would someone use a made-up word? I wasn't even looking at this topic, but when I turned on my machine, your post was right there on the screen. So, seeing an unfamiliar Greek word and your explanation caused me to research this. Perhaps you should recheck your sources on this matter.

PMFBI I have Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Danker in my personal library. Here is a similar word.

περιλείπομαι [perileipomai] occurs only in pass. (Hom. [in tmesis] et al.; Eur.; Pla.; IG XII/3, 326, 24; SIG 852, 46; BGU 1132, 12 [13 B.C.]; PSI 409, 12; 571, 14; LXX; Just.) aor. pass. ptc. περιλειφθείς (LXX, Just.); pf. ptc. neut. pl. περιλελειμμένα 2 Macc 8:14 remain, be left behind of pers. (Eur., Hel. 426; Plut., Ages. 608 [22, 8]; Herodian 2, 1, 7; PGiss 82, 23 ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἔτι περιλειπομένους; 4 Macc 12:6; 13:18; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 35) 1 Th 4:15, 17. See AvVeldhuizen, ThStud 29, 1911, 101–6; Unknown Sayings, 64–67.—DELG s.v. λείπω. M-M. TW. Spicq.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 802.​

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I came across a Bible study group on Facebook that is trying to say that Jesus has already returned in the flesh, in secret, and the Second Coming in the clouds will be when Christ returns in the Spirit. I have never heard of this. I always understood that Jesus will return in the clouds of Heaven, and then all the righteous people will be caught up with the Lord. I left the Bible study group last night in disgust. I don't think this is a true teaching.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning
that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24: 26, 27

I honestly don't understand why they believe this, and this group is constantly pushing this idea that Jesus has already come back in the flesh, in secret, and then will return again in the Spirit. I am thinking of blocking these people on Facebook today because they are very pushy.

They have been deceived as the passage you quoted from Jesus tells us.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Your post has left me shaking my head. Specifically, your use of the word perilepomenoi, which from what I can determine, isn't a Greek word at all, in that it doesn't exist.

You have misspelled this word in your comment, which is perhaps why you think I made this word up. I spelled it "perileipomenoi" in my comment, not "perilepomenoi". This word is found in the Interlinear literal version for 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17.

Paul used this word "remain" intentionally. It indicated more than just a group of saints who hadn't died yet who were left remaining on the planet for a micro-second's-worth of time before they, too, were to be caught up with the newly-resurrected saints to meet the Lord together with them in the air. The Greek word "perileipomenoi", as you have noted above, indicates to be "left over", or to "survive". This involves more of a lengthy duration of time for these "remaining" saints to be left on the planet than just an eye-blink's amount of time. That is why I interpreted this term for "remain" as these saints being reserved or set apart for a certain length of time on the planet.

If Paul had meant to say that the living who had not died yet would be caught up in the clouds, then he would not have even bothered to use this word "remain" in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17. He would have simply said "Then we which are alive...shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air". But Paul didn't write that, because the living who had not died yet would not be included in those who were caught up. It was only going to be those who had already been made alive by a resurrection at one point or another who would be caught up in the clouds. No translation change of the living is mentioned in this passage (or any other one), because no such promise was ever made to the saints. No child of God can be taken to heaven without first passing through physical death, and then a bodily resurrection process. The one-time-only appointment with death in Hebrews 9:27-28 is decreed for all men.

 

[Omniskeptical]

He has already come as a thief in the night. He will not come again. God promises to scorch planet instantly in case of nuclear genocide.

 

[Der Alte]

He has already come as a thief in the night. He will not come again. God promises to scorch planet instantly in case of nuclear genocide.

Scripture please? I will understand you not being able to provide any.

 

[Omniskeptical]

Scripture please? I will understand you not being able to provide any.

(Rev 3:11 KJV) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
(Rev 22:7, 12KJV) Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

All 3 use the active voice 1st Person middle voice ἔρχομαι, and he was being sent.

(Rev 3:3 KJV) Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

(Rev 16:15) Ἰδού, ἔρχομαι ὡς κλέπτης ... [Same as the first the 3.]

(2Pe 3:10 KJV) But [actually then] the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
3:10 Ἥξει δὲ ᾗ ἡμέρα κυρίου ὡς κλέπτης ἐν νυκτὶ ἐν ἡ οἱ οὐρανοὶ ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσονται, καὶ γῆ καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ ἔργα κατακαήσεται

(Rev 20:8-9 KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
The last days of planet earth if you can decipher it.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I came across a Bible study group on Facebook that is trying to say that Jesus has already returned in the flesh, in secret, and the Second Coming in the clouds will be when Christ returns in the Spirit. I have never heard of this. I always understood that Jesus will return in the clouds of Heaven, and then all the righteous people will be caught up with the Lord. I left the Bible study group last night in disgust. I don't think this is a true teaching.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning
that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24: 26, 27

I honestly don't understand why they believe this, and this group is constantly pushing this idea that Jesus has already come back in the flesh, in secret, and then will return again in the Spirit. I am thinking of blocking these people on Facebook today because they are very pushy.

ya it doesn't make sense. Jesus returning will be like a nuclear bomb going off, there won't be the ability to even question if the bomb went off, everyone will know.

 

[Frank Sophia]

Yes.

 

[Omniskeptical]

@SeventhFisherofMen I come like a nuclear bomb in the night?

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

@SeventhFisherofMen I come like a nuclear bomb in the night?

Matthew 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.