Has God Called Every Person?

jimmyjimmy said:

Really? A man small in a Chinese mountain village in 200 AD heard the gospel?

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Yes.
Not for this site though - too much disagreement with truth.

jimmyjimmy said:

Unless God enables him, no one Can come to Christ. . .

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so you just hang around until God enables you?

victorinus said:

so you just hang around until God enables you?

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King Saul neglected to hang around until it was the right time -
he jumped the gun, (got impatient or doubted?)
and offered a sacrifice himself
instead of
God's Way
(the same thing so many people do today, instead of God's Way),

and his kingship was taken away from him because of his disobedience.

jimmyjimmy said:

Really? A man small in a Chinese mountain village in 550 AD heard the gospel?

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He did not hear the gospel in the sense that you mean. But God still calls this man to repentance and faith. He is still self-condemned because he has violated his own conscience and he will be held accountable for failure to repent.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

King Saul neglected to hang around

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are you just hanging around?

jimmyjimmy said:

We know that God calls men, but has He called every man, without exception?

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YES!

jimmyjimmy said:

The end of the road is glorification. Where I come from, we call that: saved.

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Yes , the end of the road is glorification for those who have repented and placed their faith in Christ as the Bible calls all men everywhere to do. Those in Christ are elect because Jesus is Elect and God had determined a plan and purpose for those in Christ... For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. They are called to serve God, they are justified by God and finally glorified... these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

"In the overall scheme of redemption, God alone is the one who foreknows what He will do, takes steps to make sure it happens, calls believers to a greater purpose in service to Him, justifies those who believe, and glorifies for eternity all whom He justified.

In Romans 8:28-30, Paul is not talking about an eternal decree from eternity past about to whom He would give eternal life, but rather, God’s plan from eternity past to bring those who believe in Jesus into conformity to the image of Jesus Christ, which does not fully occur until glorification (cf. Eph 1:4; 4:1; 5:27; Col 1:22-23).

This fits with everything we have seen about election so far. In Romans 8:28-30, Paul is saying nothing about God’s predestination of some to eternal life.

Instead, Paul is saying that God decided in eternity past to make sure that everyone and anyone who joins His family by faith will finally and ultimately be brought into conformity to Jesus Christ at their glorification."
Romans 8:28-30 and the "Golden Chain of Salvation"

jimmyjimmy said:

I know that he is condemned, and being called to repentance isn't exactly the gospel. Further, I can't even see how he is called to repentance.

And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

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Joshua, Naomi, Ruth, Isaac, Rahab and many others didn't exactly hear the gospel either.

jimmyjimmy said:

We know that God calls men, but has He called every man, without exception?

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1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified (to everyone), to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

This scripture teaches without dispute that there is a general call to all who are preached to, but there is a effectual call to those who believe.

"everyone called"..well what do you mean by called? As in preacher teacher prophet? Then no.. not everyone. For me when I read Matt-John.. its a gift.. ever lasting life. I am 56 and not once have I ever felt like I HAD to so something for Him. A calling? Yeah was there.. something that burns in you.. cant shake it blah blah blah Yet I believe to some degree ALL are called. This is GOD were talking about.. willing to do ANYTHING .. surrender all..give up all for Him.. see what happens. He WILL use you. The thing is...MOST do not will not. We LOVE our life.. in this world. We SAY things.. but when push comes to shove.. that trail comes.. we fold. Many are called few are chosen.

As for those that never heard about the gospel can they be saved? Duh YES! So if Jesus had not come... what would have happen to them? This is what JESUS said about that "if I had not come and spoken they would have no sin". Jesus also said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". This JUDGE this GOD is not man. So what you think or I think.. HE DOES NOT. He sees the heart what we can not. So you expect this GOD to judge people on something they NEVER heard? This GOD would have spared cities for just 10 righteous. Yet.. thats only because Abraham stopped. Fact is God could do nothing while ONE righteous was in that city.

I praise GOD I and no man/woman gets a say in that. So what you personally believe or I about that.. changes nothing. Just EFFECTS those YOU and I talk to about this. We give life or condemn judge.. things like that..

I'm_Sorry said:

Hello from Melbourne!

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I'm sorry,

I'm sure glad to be in Brisbane in the winter than in Melbourne, although here in northern Brisbane it's predicted to go to 10C tonight.

I've had my share of visits to Melbourne, especially when I was a TV newsreader in Shepparton in 1969-70 - and co-hosting GMV Juniors with Joey the clown.

Those were the days!

Oz

PhantomGaze said:

Doesn't that violate the tenet Irresistible Grace?

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Phantom,

Of course it does. That's one reason why I consider irresistible grace to be an unbiblical doctrine.

That influenced my writing this article: Salvation by grace but not by force: A person chooses to believe.

Oz

victorinus said:

judge not

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I'm not judging, but I consider that any theological position should be supported with Scripture. Otherwise it's your or my opinion and our opinions could be no better or worse than others.

The latter is, in my view, an inappropriate way to make informed theological and ethical decisions.

Oz

Wordkeeper said:

Then there's the problem of not all the called being chosen:

Matthew 22:14"For many are called, but few are chosen."

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What's your solution to that dilemma?

'Who has God called and chosen?' has one perspective on this.

Oz

yeshuaslavejeff said:

King Saul neglected to hang around until it was the right time -
he jumped the gun, (got impatient or doubted?)
and offered a sacrifice himself
instead of
God's Way
(the same thing so many people do today, instead of God's Way),

and his kingship was taken away from him because of his disobedience.

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We are discussing salvation and not what King Saul did. The two topics are different - as I understand them.

OzSpen said:

What's your solution to that dilemma?

'Who has God called and chosen?' has one perspective on this.

Oz

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There are two different scenarios where the term, “called”, is used:

1 Corinthians 1:1 and parallels, where someone is called to be an instrument in Gods hands, teaching, dealing with, vocation:

1 Corinthians 1:1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 Peter 1:10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

John 6:70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” 71Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.


Matthew 22:2 and parallels where someone is called to participate in receiving spiritual nourishment, teaching, dealing with, revelation:
"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.

1 Corinthians 10:1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Acts 8:13Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.


Does the passage used by Calvinists to justify "predestination" fit into the above two, or is it a different teaching of its own?

Romans 8:29 and parallels where someone is called because, as Calvinism claims, God “elected” him:

29And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to Hispurpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

First impressions tell us that “calling” in the passage has the meaning of revelation, because of several synecdochal elements. Synecdoches are umbrella terms: if I said 9/11, you’d understand I meant the full idea of what happened on that day. I will explain how I expanded those elements shortly:

Anyhoo, the paraphrase would go like this:

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him, to those who are called according to His plan. For those whom He had a good experience with(!), He also arranged to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the prototype (first sample of the final result) of all His children, and these whom He had arranged to be the final result, He called for receiving revelation towards agreement, and those who He revealed those convincing arguments, He also used for noble purposes because they did become convinced, so they became worthy of glory.

jimmyjimmy said:

I know that he is condemned, and being called to repentance isn't exactly the gospel. Further, I can't even see how he is called to repentance.

And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

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He is called to repentance via his conscience.