Has God Called Every Person?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are discussing salvation and not what King Saul did. The two topics are different - as I understand them.

A lot of people might "do" a 'formula' thinking it will be "SALVATION!" for their soul,
and even might be told that,
and even might "do" the same thing(s) someone else does,

the same as King Saul "did" exactly what the prophet was supposed to do,

and just as King Saul "lost" the kingdom because he did it at the wrong time, and disobeyed YHWH'S WORD "DO"ing it before the prophet arrived,
so
also a lot of people might be guilty "do"ing "what is right and good", but disobediently, at the wrong time or place or whatever - as if "do"ing a method was fine and okay even without obedience, without having faith in YHWH,
(having instead faith in a "method") ...... without Jesus.... (not waiting for Him, not waiting on Him, as King Saul did not wait nor trust with confidence enough to wait to obey YHWH'S WORD )

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

no -
I believe this refers to special people who are chosen to lead -

I grew up in a church where that understanding of the scripture was preached. I believed it for a long time. When I finally read it in context, the whole chapter of Matthew 22, I realized that what I had been told was obviously false. It was obvious enough that I couldn't excuse the educated theologian behind the pulpit. He should have known better.

 

[RisenInJesus]

"everyone called"..well what do you mean by called? As in preacher teacher prophet? Then no.. not everyone. For me when I read Matt-John.. its a gift.. ever lasting life. I am 56 and not once have I ever felt like I HAD to so something for Him. A calling? Yeah was there.. something that burns in you.. cant shake it blah blah blah Yet I believe to some degree ALL are called. This is GOD were talking about.. willing to do ANYTHING .. surrender all..give up all for Him.. see what happens. He WILL use you. The thing is...MOST do not will not. We LOVE our life.. in this world. We SAY things.. but when push comes to shove.. that trail comes.. we fold. Many are called few are chosen.

As for those that never heard about the gospel can they be saved? Duh YES! So if Jesus had not come... what would have happen to them? This is what JESUS said about that "if I had not come and spoken they would have no sin". Jesus also said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". This JUDGE this GOD is not man. So what you think or I think.. HE DOES NOT. He sees the heart what we can not. So you expect this GOD to judge people on something they NEVER heard? This GOD would have spared cities for just 10 righteous. Yet.. thats only because Abraham stopped. Fact is God could do nothing while ONE righteous was in that city.

I praise GOD I and no man/woman gets a say in that. So what you personally believe or I about that.. changes nothing. Just EFFECTS those YOU and I talk to about this. We give life or condemn judge.. things like that..

I think this is a very beautiful expression of your love for God and insightful into the heart and love of God. I gave some thought to your statement... "Fact is God could do nothing while ONE righteous was in that city." Calvinists would I'm sure would cringe at such a statement. Why couldn't or wouldn't God destroy the city? He is Almighty and Sovereign after all. Is He limited in anyway? I think the scriptures show over and over again that God is not only a God of perfect and complete Love, but a God of Righteousness and Justice. Abraham knew this and therefore he also knew that the God of Righteousness could do nothing less than act in perfect righteousness, justice, and love toward each and every person. God cannot act against His own holy character and nature. Does this diminish His Sovereignty? I don't think so.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

He is called to repentance via his conscience.

Are you you saying that's the same thing as either the outward or inward call of God?

 

[Tree of Life]

Are you you saying that's the same thing as either the outward or inward call of God?

No.

 

[Wordkeeper]

What's your solution to that dilemma?

'Who has God called and chosen?' has one perspective on this.

Oz

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him, to those who are called according to His plan. For those whom He had a good experience with(!), He also arranged to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the prototype (first sample of the final result) of all His children, and these whom He had arranged to be the final result, He called for receiving revelation towards agreement, and those who He revealed those convincing arguments, He also used for noble purposes because they did become convinced, so they became worthy of glory.


I promised to expand the above interpretations, specifically where i replaced the original words with my ideas. I will do this by giving, not one, but three(!) instances of how the scenario played out:



And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him, to those who are called according to His plan.

God gave Joseph a dream, and caused through the chain of events it started the movement of Jacob and His family to Egypt, where they learned about the futility of serving the world for life's necessities. They already were living in futility before going to Egypt, but there everything was accentuated. Because their situation was oppressive, they called out to God for deliverance. God in turn called them out of Egypt.


Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.


God caused Jesus to be moved to Egypt. In order that all righteous would be met, Jesus’ life mirrors the journey of Israel. So here as well, God calls Jesus out of Egypt.


Matthew 2:15
He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."


God gave the twelve, Peter and the rest, trials, poverty, so that they had little regard for earthly treasure:

James 1:9
But the brother of humble circumstances is to glory in his high position;

Matthew 4:18-22
18Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19And He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20Immediately they left their nets and followed Him. 21Going on from there He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.22Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.


For those whom He had a good experience with(!), He also arranged to become conformed to the image of His Son,

constituting the “Call”.


God received the right response from Israel, so He arranged for them to be conformed to the image of his Son:


1 Corinthians 10:1-3
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.


And Jesus as well:

Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."


Ditto the twelve:

Matthew 19:27
Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"


so that He would be the prototype (first sample of the final result) of all His children, and these whom He had arranged to be the final result, He called for receiving revelation towards agreement,


How Israel turned out:


1 Corinthians 10:5
Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.


How Jesus turned out:


Matthew 2:11
Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.


How the twelve performed:


John 13:10
Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."


and those who He revealed those convincing arguments, He also used for noble purposes because they did become convinced, so they became worthy of glory.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

No.

You did say that God calls all men. Are you saying that feeling guilt in one's conscience = God's calling them to salvation in Christ?

 

[Tree of Life]

You did say that God calls all men. Are you saying that feeling guilt in one's conscience = God's calling them to salvation in Christ?

No.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

No.

Are you conserving words for a special occasion?

 

[Tree of Life]

Are you conserving words for a special occasion?

God calls all men in a moral sense. Every person is obliged to repent of their sins and believe in Yahweh. Every person will be held accountable to their failure to do so.

The outward call of the gospel does not come to every single individual, but it does come to many and it will come to all kinds of people and people from every nation.

God's inward call which saves only comes to the elect.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

God calls all men in a moral sense. Every person is obliged to repent of their sins and believe in Yahweh. Every person will be held accountable to their failure to do so.

The outward call of the gospel does not come to every single individual, but it does come to many and it will come to all kinds of people and people from every nation.

God's inward call which saves only comes to the elect.

Thanks. The reason for my continued questions was that you said that God calls all men. I wouldn't consider the conscious a call from God, but that could depend on one's definition I suppose.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Thanks. The reason for my continued questions was that you said that God calls all men. I wouldn't consider the conscious a call from God, but that could depend on one's definition I suppose.

The call is an invitation to a feast. It is made to those who have confessed the world is the dominion of Satan. It is picturised in baptism, a parting of the sea, inviting you to cross and drink from the Rock, CREATE your faith in Christ Those who are not chosen is because they still have Egypt in themselves. You can take Israel out of Egypt, but taking Egypt out of Israel is another matter:

Matthew 22:14“For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 22:5-6
5“But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.

Psalm 78:19They spoke against God; they said, "Can God really spread a table in the wilderness?

Acts 8:18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I'm no Koine Greek scholar, but that verse says "many" as opposed to "all"

excellent point!

 

[Rubiks]

I know that he is condemned, and being called to repentance isn't exactly the gospel. Further, I can't even see how he is called to repentance.

And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

Did Adam and Eve hear the gospel? did their offspring hear the gospel? did their offspring's offspring hear the gospel? Being a believer means accepting revelation you have received, and general revelation is just that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Did Adam and Eve hear the gospel?

Yes.

did their offspring hear the gospel?

Yes.

did their offspring's offspring hear the gospel?

Yes.


The gospel was first proclaimed immediately after the Fall, in Genesis chapter 3, verse 15.

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

This was the first promise of the Messiah.

 

[Rubiks]

Yes.



Yes.



Yes.


The gospel was first proclaimed immediately after the Fall, in Genesis chapter 3, verse 15.

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

This was the first promise of the Messiah.

Shouldn't it be self evident that a perfectly good God will deal with evil in the world?

 

[Hammster]

It stands to reason that if everyone is called, then everyone is justified.

Romans 8:30

 

[EmSw]

It stands to reason that if everyone is called, then everyone is justified.

Romans 8:30

Not so.

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, And all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight.

According to man's reason, that may be so. But according to God, some don't answer and hear, but keep doing evil in God's sight.

 

[Hammster]

Not so.

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, And all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight.

According to man's reason, that may be so. But according to God, some don't answer and hear, but keep doing evil in God's sight.

How is this a retort?

 

[Wordkeeper]

Not so.

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, And all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight.

According to man's reason, that may be so. But according to God, some don't answer and hear, but keep doing evil in God's sight.

Absolutely:

Matthew 22:5-7
5“But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them. 7“But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.

Some even come and are not ready to take part in the feast, which requires being loyal, not doing evil things:

Matthew 22:14
14“For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Acts 5:3-6
3But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4“While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. 6The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.