Halloween

[VCViking]

Oh you teenagers and your exaggerated examples!

Jokingly or not, a little condescending are we? Yet all 17 years of herself has more discernment in spiritual matters. She maybe be 17 but she has the discernment to know that halloween is evil and not harmless.

Your excuses for halloween being harmless are the same ones I hear from non-christians. The Bible is clear on imitating things that are evil. Halloween is about fear and death, not just fun excuse to get some candy.
And evil it is.

3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate what is evil.

Psalm 34:14
14 Depart from evil and do good.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14

9 When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.

13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.

 

[Zecryphon]

Jokingly or not, a little condescending are we? Yet all 17 years of herself has more discernment in spiritual matters. She maybe be 17 but she has the discernment to know that halloween is evil and not harmless.

Your excuses for halloween being harmless are the same ones I hear from non-christians. The Bible is clear on imitating things that are evil. Halloween is about fear and death, not just fun excuse to get some candy.
And evil it is.

3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate what is evil.

Psalm 34:14
14 Depart from evil and do good.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14

9 When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.

13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.

"Jokingly or not, a little condescending are we?"

I don't think so.

"Yet all 17 years of herself has more discernment in spiritual matters. She maybe be 17 but she has the discernment to know that halloween is evil and not harmless."

And you have the gall to call me condescending? Typical Christian. Condemn a behavior in a brother and exhibit the same behavior yourself. When did I say it was harmless? All throughout this thread I have been promoting the idea of not celebrating Halloween and instead celebrating Reformation Day. If you'd bothered to read that excerpt from my blog you'd see that I'm not a fan of that Christianized version of Halloween known as your local church's Harvest/Fall festival either. I have given alternatives to Christians who wish to participate in this day while doing the Lord's work, such as handing out a gospel tract taped to a candy bar or in a bag of candy to be given out to trick or treaters. An idea you seem to love in post # 59 of this very thread. So on the one hand you like an idea I have offered as a way for Christians to participate in Halloween, but you wanna slam me for celebrating Halloween. Something seems contradictory there. Personally, I don't think it's a very good witness to sit at home with the lights off. Because let's face it, if you're there sitting at home with the lights off, you're right where the devil wants you, incapacitated and not being a light unto the world.

"Your excuses for halloween being harmless are the same ones I hear from non-christians. The Bible is clear on imitating things that are evil. Halloween is about fear and death, not just fun excuse to get some candy.
And evil it is."

I never said it was about getting candy. I have never said that was the purpose of the holiday. What I have said is that the holiday that Americans celebrate as Halloween is a lot different than the Pagan observance of Samhein. It's like comparing the American version of Christmas to the Pagan celebration of Yule. They are two completely different celebrations. Where as Christmas lasts one day, Yule lasts for ten and that's just one of the differences between the two. Tell me, where do Christmas trees, which tend to be evergreen trees, fit into the Biblical story of Jesus' birth? That's something Christians have borrowed from the Pagan celebration of Yule. If you're going to make statements or judgments about what I've said, at least make sure they're based in truth, these by you are not and that's sad.

If the poster in question does not want to celebrate it that's her choice, but I don't think anyone should look down their nose at any one else simply because they choose to excercise the freedom they have in Christ. Ya know, kinda like you're tyring to do here.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate what is evil.

Psalm 34:14
14 Depart from evil and do good.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14

9 When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.

13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.

 

[Zecryphon]

So wicca is ok?

I didn't say that. You are drawing a faulty conclusion. I have said that there are severe consequences in Wicca for practicing evil magick against other people. Never did I say the practice of Wicca is okay.

 

[LJSGM]

Halloween is not a religious day. It's just a day to have fun, nothing religious about it, there is no celebration of any birth or anything else related to anything anyone practices in any religion. There is no spiritual significance or side to it. In fact, what it's really doing is mocking evil and superstitions (not what I do, but what most do). I either take my kids trick or treating because it's a fun thing to do, just like taking them to an carnival or an easter egg hunt, or I shelter my children, and have all of these superstitions about halloween. (That's great for their spiritual life). Nor do I do it because I don't want to damage my children by not giving them what they want, I go just because it's fun. I had a lot of fun when I was a child. It was just a fun thing to do. In fact, I never heard anything bad about halloween until I started hearing from other christians and all their superstitions about it.

 

[Zecryphon]

Good point. Halloween's pagan origins, however are more obvious than those of Christmas and Easter. I don't really see the point of even talking about Christmas or Easter with someone who believes we are free to celebrate Halloween.



Very good. So, I think the conclusion here is obvious. If you can't be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, how can you be a Christian and a pagan at the same time?



If you must throw a party on October 31, that would be a far better reason to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Because by celebrating Ramadan, you are worshipping another god (Allah) and following the instructions of his prophet (Muhammed) and reading a false gospel (The Quran). To do this you would have to be both a Christian and a member of Islam at the same time, you can't do it. Because if you are a practitioner of Islam you can not be a Christian, because you would be breaking the first commandment, of thou shalt have no other gods before me.



"Very good."

Thank you.

"So, I think the conclusion here is obvious. If you can't be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, how can you be a Christian and a pagan at the same time?"

In my answer I explained how celebrating Ramadan would be a violation of the first commandment, 'thou shall have no other gods before me'. How does celebrating Halloween, as Americans understand it and celebrate it, automatically make you a Pagan? What god and goddess are being worshipped by Christians on that night by dressing up in a costume of their choosing? It doesn't have to be an evil costume, you could be an astronaut, and going door to door with their kids, if they have any, and trick or treating?

A Christian's true ministry is to his or her family first. So by dressing up with your kids on Halloween you are having a kind of fellowship with them, you are building your relationship with them further, and are making it stronger. Kids will remember going trick or treating with their parents probably for the rest of their lives. I still remember going with my parents when I was a little child.

Little children are not going to understand the theological implications or the possible spiritual dangers of celebrating Halloween as well as an older child or person would. One day you can tell them about the dangers of this holiday, but for now, enjoy this holiday with them. To me it's no different than telling them stories about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. One day when they are older you will enlighten them to the truth, but let them be kids and participate in Halloween for their sake. It's not always about you, ya know. Don't get so wrapped up in your Christian walk and pleasing God that you ignore one of the greatest gifts God has bestowed upon you in your children.

This is also a day that can be used to teach them a lot of valuable lessons. Let's start with the costume selection. If they want to be a demon or something evil like that explain why that is not acceptable to God. Why not dress them up as Moses or Noah? Joseph would have quite the colorful costume, don't you think? As they get ready to go trick or treating on that night, have a family prayer before you leave the house. Pray for protection and wisdom and guidance from God on this night. Another lesson that can be taught is staying close to mom and dad while trick or treating. Looking both ways before crossing the street. Making themselves visible to drivers by carrying a glow stick or flashlight or wearing a brightly colored costume. This is a great night to teach them not to take candy from strangers and to inspect ALL candy, even if it's from people you know, etc. This night isn't all about the devil and his evil plots on this day. You can teach your kids how to defeat the devil in more ways than just ignoring this holiday. The examples of lessons I've given up above, will do a great deal of damage to the devil and his plans on a daily basis. Just like God, he is at work every day of the year. No one day is any more important than any other. All days are crucial to him and his minions, because their days are numbered and they're running out of time.

 

[Zecryphon]

Halloween is not a religious day. It's just a day to have fun, nothing religious about it, there is no celebration of any birth or anything else related to anything anyone practices in any religion. There is no spiritual significance or side to it. In fact, what it's really doing is mocking evil and superstitions (not what I do, but what most do). I either take my kids trick or treating because it's a fun thing to do, just like taking them to an carnival or an easter egg hunt, or I shelter my children, and have all of these superstitions about halloween. (That's great for their spiritual life). Nor do I do it because I don't want to damage my children by not giving them what they want, I go just because it's fun. I had a lot of fun when I was a child. It was just a fun thing to do. In fact, I never heard anything bad about halloween until I started hearing from other christians and all their superstitions about it.

"Halloween is not a religious day. It's just a day to have fun, nothing religious about it, there is no celebration of any birth or anything else related to anything anyone practices in any religion. There is no spiritual significance or side to it. In fact, what it's really doing is mocking evil and superstitions (not what I do, but what most do). I either take my kids trick or treating because it's a fun thing to do, just like taking them to an carnival or an easter egg hunt, or I shelter my children, and have all of these superstitions about halloween. (That's great for their spiritual life). Nor do I do it because I don't want to damage my children by not giving them what they want, I go just because it's fun. I had a lot of fun when I was a child. It was just a fun thing to do. In fact, I never heard anything bad about halloween until I started hearing from other christians and all their superstitions about it."

So you're the one that has put VC Viking on the war path so to speak! LOL I wonder why he is attributing your statements about Halloween to me. It's all good. I've seen his kind before and they're easily set straight. No worries. I remember going trick or treating with my parents as a kid too. Just like you I never heard anything bad in a religious sense about Halloween. But I did hear all the hometown tales and urban legends about escaped mental patients with hooks for hands and that crazy old lady who put razor blades into apples and handed them out to kids. Ah, good times! LOL

 

[LJSGM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Because by celebrating Ramadan, you are worshipping another god (Allah) and following the instructions of his prophet (Muhammed) and reading a false gospel (The Quran). To do this you would have to be both a Christian and a member of Islam at the same time, you can't do it. Because if you are a practitioner of Islam you can not be a Christian, because you would be breaking the first commandment, of thou shalt have no other gods before me.



"Very good."

Thank you.

"So, I think the conclusion here is obvious. If you can't be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, how can you be a Christian and a pagan at the same time?"

In my answer I explained how celebrating Ramadan would be a violation of the first commandment, 'thou shall have no other gods before me'. How does celebrating Halloween, as Americans understand it and celebrate it, automatically make you a Pagan? What god and goddess are being worshipped by Christians on that night by dressing up in a costume of their choosing? It doesn't have to be an evil costume, you could be an astronaut, and going door to door with their kids, if they have any, and trick or treating?

A Christian's true ministry is to his or her family first. So by dressing up with your kids on Halloween you are having a kind of fellowship with them, you are building your relationship with them further, and are making it stronger. Kids will remember going trick or treating with their parents probably for the rest of their lives. I still remember going with my parents when I was a little child.

Little children are not going to understand the theological implications or the possible spiritual dangers of celebrating Halloween as well as an older child or person would. One day you can tell them about the dangers of this holiday, but for now, enjoy this holiday with them. To me it's no different than telling them stories about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. One day when they are older you will enlighten them to the truth, but let them be kids and participate in Halloween for their sake. It's not always about you, ya know. Don't get so wrapped up in your Christian walk and pleasing God that you ignore one of the greatest gifts God has bestowed upon you in your children.

This is also a day that can be used to teach them a lot of valuable lessons. Let's start with the costume selection. If they want to be a demon or something evil like that explain why that is not acceptable to God. Why not dress them up as Moses or Noah? Joseph would have quite the colorful costume, don't you think? As they get ready to go trick or treating on that night, have a family prayer before you leave the house. Pray for protection and wisdom and guidance from God on this night. Another lesson that can be taught is staying close to mom and dad while trick or treating. Looking both ways before crossing the street. Making themselves visible to drivers by carrying a glow stick or flashlight or wearing a brightly colored costume. This is a great night to teach them not to take candy from strangers and to inspect ALL candy, even if it's from people you know, etc. This night isn't all about the devil and his evil plots on this day. You can teach your kids how to defeat the devil in more ways than just ignoring this holiday. The examples of lessons I've given up above, will do a great deal of damage to the devil and his plans on a daily basis. Just like God, he is at work every day of the year. No one day is any more important than any other. All days are crucial to him and his minions, because their days are numbered and they're running out of time.

good post

 

[TankGirl]

Little children are not going to understand the theological implications or the possible spiritual dangers of celebrating Halloween as well as an older child or person would.

Exactly.

Little children don't understand the potential dangers of playing in traffic, which is why we protect them UNTIL THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE CHOICES FOR THEMSELVES!

 

[Zecryphon]

Exactly.

Little children don't understand the potential dangers of playing in traffic, which is why we protect them UNTIL THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE CHOICES FOR THEMSELVES!

Then do that. My whole point is that we should not be tearing each other down over this holiday. We should not be copping an attitude of spiritual superiority or saying that this person is more spiritually enlightened than another person because we choose to handle this day in different ways according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Satan is laughing his butt of right now at this division of Christians over a day that holds no more importance for him than any other day of the year. Well done all you spiritually enlightened people. You have once again served the devil instead of God. Are you happy now?

 

[TankGirl]

Then do that. My whole point is that we should not be tearing each other down over this holiday. We should not be copping an attitude of spiritual superiority or saying that this person is more spiritually enlightened than another person because we choose to handle this day in different ways according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Satan is laughing his butt of right now at this division of Christians over a day that holds no more importance for him than any other day of the year. Well done all you spiritually enlightened people. You have once again served the devil instead of God. Are you happy now?

I hope - indeed I'm absolutely certain - that I haven't done that at all. And I'm also pretty certain that I haven't in anyway served Satan by avoiding all appearance of evil (or doing the best I can in my daily walk!).

 

[Zecryphon]

I hope - indeed I'm absolutely certain - that I haven't done that at all. And I'm also pretty certain that I haven't in anyway served Satan by avoiding all appearance of evil (or doing the best I can in my daily walk!).

I never said it was you specifically did I? My point was that the devil is very pleased that we are all sitting here arguing about a day that is no more important to him than any other and we are tearing each other down with accusations of who is and who is not spiritually enlightened. In short, we're bickering instead of edifying. Do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do and let others do the same. Don't tear someone down because they participate in Halloween and are enjoying their freedom in Christ in this area. I'm sure there are things that you do, that others may not think are wholly Christian according to their own personal standard of what it means to be a Christian. Follow the Holy Spirit and let the naysayers talk themselves hoarse. Nothing is gained by this constant finger pointing and arguing.

 

[TankGirl]

I never said it was you specifically did I? My point was that the devil is very pleased that we are all sitting here arguing about a day that is no more important to him than any other and we are tearing each other down with accusations of who is and who is not spiritually enlightened. In short, we're bickering instead of edifying. Do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do and let others do the same. Don't tear someone down because they participate in Halloween and are enjoying their freedom in Christ in this area. I'm sure there are things that you do, that others may not think are wholly Christian according to their own personal standard of what it means to be a Christian. Follow the Holy Spirit and let the naysayers talk themselves hoarse. Nothing is gained by this constant finger pointing and arguing.

No, but you quoted me directly, then made those comments. I have made absolutely no allegations of spiritual superiority, haven't torn anyone down, pointed any fingers, nor suggested that I live some kind of spotlessly blameless life. And yet you've twice now quoted me & made accusations which don't apply to me. It would appear to anyone joining this thread that these accusations are directly aimed at me. And it appears that way to me, too.

 

[LJSGM]

It seems that most those that are opposed to halloween are outside of America, and I think the reason is that halloween isn't so much celibrated there and it isn't a tradition like it is in America, and certainly not a fun day like it is here. My husband is from New Zealand, and halloween is getting bigger, but still not a huge thing, and those that do anything on halloween are usually mischef makers, so it's understandably a not holiday that is any good in the citizen's minds. It's funny because instead celibrating halloween, New Zealanders celibrate Guy forks days on the 5th of november, which is like our fourth of july here with fireworks, and what they are celebrating is some guy hanging because he almost blew up England or something like that. It's funny. "remember, remember, the 5th of November"

 

[TankGirl]

It seems that most those that are opposed to halloween are outside of America, and I think the reason is that halloween isn't so much celibrated there and it isn't a tradition like it is in America, and certainly not a fun day like it is here. My husband is from New Zealand, and halloween is getting bigger, but still not a huge thing, and those that do anything on halloween are usually mischef makers, so it's understandably a not holiday that is any good in the citizen's minds. It's funny because instead celibrating halloween, New Zealanders celibrate Guy forks days on the 5th of november, which is like our fourth of july here with fireworks, and what they are celebrating is some guy hanging because he almost blew up England or something like that. It's funny. "remember, remember, the 5th of November"

Guy Fawkes was burnt at the stake for conspiring to blow up the Houses of Parliament

And you're right, Halloween has horrible connotations of mischief-making here. Many elderly people suffer terribly from the fear of being attacked in their own homes. The police & many other organisations produce posters to place on the front doors of those who don't want to be bothered by kids banging on the doors after dark.

 

[Zecryphon]

No, but you quoted me directly, then made those comments. I have made absolutely no allegations of spiritual superiority, haven't torn anyone down, pointed any fingers, nor suggested that I live some kind of spotlessly blameless life. And yet you've twice now quoted me & made accusations which don't apply to me. It would appear to anyone joining this thread that these accusations are directly aimed at me. And it appears that way to me, too.

"No, but you quoted me directly, then made those comments. I have made absolutely no allegations of spiritual superiority, haven't torn anyone down, pointed any fingers, nor suggested that I live some kind of spotlessly blameless life. And yet you've twice now quoted me & made accusations which don't apply to me. It would appear to anyone joining this thread that these accusations are directly aimed at me. And it appears that way to me, too."

For the record the comments I made about serving the devil and bickering were pointed at all of us, myself included. As to the comments about spiritual superiority and finger pointing that goes out to VC Viking and a couple of others who have made comments similar to his.

 

[elsbeth]

Halloween is not a religious day. It's just a day to have fun, nothing religious about it, there is no celebration of any birth or anything else related to anything anyone practices in any religion. There is no spiritual significance or side to it. In fact, what it's really doing is mocking evil and superstitions (not what I do, but what most do)...In fact, I never heard anything bad about halloween until I started hearing from other christians and all their superstitions about it.

This is my position, too. Halloween doesn't celebrate evil, it originally was intended to ward off evil, and nowdays pretty much makes fun of it. I never heard anything bad about it until we moved to a conservative small town.

 

[TankGirl]

"No, but you quoted me directly, then made those comments. I have made absolutely no allegations of spiritual superiority, haven't torn anyone down, pointed any fingers, nor suggested that I live some kind of spotlessly blameless life. And yet you've twice now quoted me & made accusations which don't apply to me. It would appear to anyone joining this thread that these accusations are directly aimed at me. And it appears that way to me, too."

For the record the comments I made about serving the devil and bickering were pointed at all of us, myself included. As to the comments about spiritual superiority and finger pointing that goes out to VC Viking and a couple of others who have made comments similar to his.

Apology accepted

 

[Starcrystal]

I neither celebrate it or not celebrate it. If kids came to our door I'd give them candy. But I wouldn't let my kid dress up as a demon, devil or other evil monster.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

QUOTE=Zechryphon]
How does celebrating Halloween, as Americans understand it and celebrate it, automatically make you a Pagan?
[/quote]

How does celebrating Ramadan, automatically make you a Muslim? It doesn't but there is no good reason for any non-Muslim to celebrate it.

What god and goddess are being worshipped by Christians on that night by dressing up in a costume of their choosing?

The Celtic gods and goddesses that the Druids used to worship when they celebrated that holiday.

It doesn't have to be an evil costume, you could be an astronaut, and going door to door with their kids, if they have any, and trick or treating?

It doesn't matter what kind of costume it is. You're already in violation of the First Commandment by celebrating the day at all.

A Christian's true ministry is to his or her family first. So by dressing up with your kids on Halloween you are having a kind of fellowship with them, you are building your relationship with them further, and are making it stronger. Kids will remember going trick or treating with their parents probably for the rest of their lives. I still remember going with my parents when I was a little child.

So anything is lawful as long as it helps you to bond with your children? Is that the position you are taking?

Little children are not going to understand the theological implications or the possible spiritual dangers of celebrating Halloween as well as an older child or person would.

All the more reason why it is a parent's duty to Christian parent's duty not to allow their children to take part in it.

One day you can tell them about the dangers of this holiday, but for now, enjoy this holiday with them. To me it's no different than telling them stories about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

It's no different to me either, but as I said, I won't get into that here. It's off the topic of this thread, in any case.

One day when they are older you will enlighten them to the truth, but let them be kids and participate in Halloween for their sake. It's not always about you, ya know.

That's right, it's not about me. It's about GOD.

Don't get so wrapped up in your Christian walk and pleasing God that you ignore one of the greatest gifts God has bestowed upon you in your children.

Don't get too wrapped up in your Christian walk and pleasing God. Wow. Also, if you're going to call Halloween a gift from God, I expect Scriptural support for that.

Just like God, he (the devil) is at work every day of the year. No one day is any more important than any other. All days are crucial to him and his minions, because their days are numbered and they're running out of time.

So why the undue attention to this particular day?

My whole point is that we should not be tearing each other down over this holiday.

It is not tearing down to speak the truth in love.

We should not be copping an attitude of spiritual superiority or saying that this person is more spiritually enlightened than another person because we choose to handle this day in different ways according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Was there ever an unbiblical practice under the sun that wasn't justified by the "leading of the Holy Spirit"? The only biblical way of handling this day is not to pay any regard at all. What part of "no other gods before me" don't you understand?

 

[LJSGM]

How does celebrating Ramadan, automatically make you a Muslim? It doesn't but there is no good reason for any non-Muslim to celebrate it.



The Celtic gods and goddesses that the Druids used to worship when they celebrated that holiday.



It doesn't matter what kind of costume it is. You're already in violation of the First Commandment by celebrating the day at all.



So anything is lawful as long as it helps you to bond with your children? Is that the position you are taking?



All the more reason why it is a parent's duty to Christian parent's duty not to allow their children to take part in it.



It's no different to me either, but as I said, I won't get into that here. It's off the topic of this thread, in any case.



That's right, it's not about me. It's about GOD.



Don't get too wrapped up in your Christian walk and pleasing God. Wow. Also, if you're going to call Halloween a gift from God, I expect Scriptural support for that.



So why the undue attention to this particular day?



It is not tearing down to speak the truth in love.



Was there ever an unbiblical practice under the sun that wasn't justified by the "leading of the Holy Spirit"? The only biblical way of handling this day is not to pay any regard at all. What part of "no other gods before me" don't you understand?

I hope that you don't celebrate the traditional christmas or easter then, otherwise you would be a hypocrite.