Halloween

[zeke37]

Hey Preachers wife,

I am a little torn....I have a 7 year old....


what if there was Old Test. proof that the festivals we keep are not pleasing to God...would you not celebrate them then? Just asking...

 

[VCViking]

That's an awful lot of pastors and good Christian people that you're slamming there, bud. You sure you want to go down that path? Shall I point out where Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they claimed to be better than everyone else? Cuz that's pretty much what you're doing here.

Now, I'm not here to debate whether celebrating Halloween is right or wrong. But I WILL defend those who decide either way and are attacked for it.

Please read post 118 again as I had to edit it because for whatever reason all of it did not go through.

I'm not a Pharisee nor do I claim to be better than anyone else.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Hey Preachers wife,

I am a little torn....I have a 7 year old....


what if there was Old Test. proof that the festivals we keep are not pleasing to God...would you not celebrate them then? Just asking...

Since I don't celebrate the pagan festival, I wouldn't have anything to worry about.

Now, if I were going out and sacrificing cats and the like, that would be a different story. We're talking trick or treating, here. The school that my son attends has a halloween party as well - and it's a Lutheran School. The Catholic schools around here have a joint Halloween party. I don't consider these to be celebrating the festivals of the pagans.

A big portion of our discussion and devotions on Halloween go to the history of Halloween, why we as Lutherans honor that day and what we as Christians CAN do to show the world that we are Christians. Dressing up (within limits, of course) and going door to door isn't being less of a Christian. My son had some kids in his group on year who didn't go to church, and he talked with them, and now two of them attend his school and their parents are taking membership courses. Not bad for a ten year old (at the time).

I think it really depends on HOW we celebrate it. Some choose to have the Harvest Festivals at their church or the Hallelujah parties - that's great. We don't have enough children in our area to do something similar. Some choose to hand out tracts to children trick or treating. Some choose to take their children out and let them have a good time while still being responsible about teaching them about Halloween.

I think the problem comes in when others decide they have the right to judge those that disagree with how they celebrate Halloween. I for one have no problems with those who choose to not let their families do anything. That's their right, just as it is mine. There is no sin in letting a child trick or treat or not, therefore we have no right to judge someone either way on this matter.

Hope that makes sense. I've taken my son trick or treating since he was old enough to wear a costume. I also trust my husband's judgment, who is a called servant of the Lord. If he ever thought that we were doing wrong by the Lord, I guarantee it would end then and there.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

That's an awful lot of pastors and good Christian people that you're slamming there, bud. You sure you want to go down that path? Shall I point out where Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they claimed to be better than everyone else? Cuz that's pretty much what you're doing here.

Now, I'm not here to debate whether celebrating Halloween is right or wrong. But I WILL defend those who decide either way and are attacked for it.

Please read post 118 again as I had to edit it because for whatever reason all of it did not go through.

I'm not a Pharisee nor do I claim to be better than anyone else.

But that's exactly what you're doing.

You're saying that anyone who doesn't celebrate halloween like you do lacks discernment and is a stumbling block.

How is not trying to be better than anyone else?

As you can see, I'm not even debating FOR celebrating Halloween. I'm talking about a family's ability to choose for themselves how to celebrate it without someone knocking their faith, as you have done.

By your statement, you've said that lots of Christians lack discernment and are stumbling blocks, because they choose to take their kids trick or treating, or they let them dress up, or whatever it is that they do differently.

If you're trying to get another point across, you're doing a poor job of it. There are others in this thread who have made a point of saying that they don't like Halloween and don't think it's healthy without slamming everyone else who celebrates it.

Do you see what I am getting at?

 

[VCViking]

If you want to hand out tracts on Halloween, fine. I don't think that's a wise thing to do, as it can border on prosyletizing, but I'm not going to sit here and say you lack discernment because of it.

And we are to proselytize. It's the Great Commission.

Matthew 28

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

And we are to proselytize. It's the Great Commission.

Matthew 28

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We use proselytizing to mean sheep stealing. A lot of the kids that come knockin on my brother 's door go to the neighborhood baptist church, so they have a church already. In our evangelism efforts, we want to target those that do not have church homes.

That's what I meant by that, and I'm not sure handing out tracts at Halloween is a good time for that, but I'm not against those that do.

 

[dies-l]

And we are to proselytize. It's the Great Commission.

Matthew 28

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Where does that passage say anything about proselytizing? We are to share the gospel and make disciples (or "teach" in the KJV). I don't think Jesus intended for us to hand out tracts to make mere converts. But, you are free to do what you want with Halloween. I won't knock you for it. Just as I am free to do what I feel is best on that day, so are you.

 

[simpleone]

my 2 pennies:

I am not personally up for Halloween or any festival really (tho I like New Years!)

and...lately I have come across couple verses which have helped me to understand other Christians who may actually like these...

Col 2:16
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Rom 14:5-6
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

If any festival can be celebrated and God given all the glory by it...sounds alright.........but I suppose that is a big "IF" ....but we probably ought to be careful about judging people rather than the act...

 

[Nadiine]

Where does that passage say anything about proselytizing? We are to share the gospel and make disciples (or "teach" in the KJV). I don't think Jesus intended for us to hand out tracts to make mere converts. But, you are free to do what you want with Halloween. I won't knock you for it. Just as I am free to do what I feel is best on that day, so are you.

I have to respectfully disagree. The tracts are a ministry -- God can work thru anything.

Imho, I don't get why prostelytizing is "bad"? If you ask me, it's just our culture that has so drastically changed, that we have a deep aversion to people who boldly reach out or preach the gospel like they did in the OT.

Our culture doesn't mean we have to shut down other avenues (less popular ones) of witness tho. Me personally, I'm not into it, but I won't shut God's servants down for using tracts or door to door ministries.
I've heard people who come to the Lord by both means still today. I think we have to be careful with this stuff - I'd hate to stifle God's Spirit in working different ways than I'm comfortable.

 

[VCViking]

Col 2:16 is refering to the Jewish festivals, not pagan ones. The same for Rom 14.

 

[VCViking]

And to reiterate my earlier view:


A good general principle should be to refrain from any participation that would either compromise one's faith or bring dishonor to the Lord Jesus Christ. Another good principle is to look for ways to become a positive, Christ honoring voice in the midst of secularism and paganism. Each Christian must be persuaded in his own conscience about how he approaches Halloween.

Christians who follow the Bible should stay clear of the evil side. The Bible is clear on this:



3 John 1:11 "Beloved, do not imitate what is evil."


Psalm 34:14 "Depart from evil and do good"


Excellent articles on the subject matter:

http://logosresourcepages.org/Holidays/halloween.htm

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Questio...-Halloween.htm

 

[simpleone]

Col 2:16 is refering to the Jewish festivals, not pagan ones. The same for Rom 14.

Hmm..I will have to read up more..in that case ...

again....IMO...halloween...incl. easter, christmas - are not very important to me...I would like to celebrate easter and christmas as if almost everyday...in my own lil way...don't need a special day to remind me

But, there are many (maybe majority) who feel otherwise...I cannot judge them or look down upon them for this...I believe the Holy Spirit will convict/convince each of us appropriately about this.

 

[Nadiine]

Hmm..I will have to read up more..in that case ...

again....IMO...halloween...incl. easter, christmas - are not very important to me...I would like to celebrate easter and christmas as if almost everyday...in my own lil way...don't need a special day to remind me

But, there are many (maybe majority) who feel otherwise...I cannot judge them or look down upon them for this...I believe the Holy Spirit will convict/convince each of us appropriately about this.

I think people with kids have more of a problem not celebrating than people like my husband and me without any kids.
I don't have kids wanting to find easter eggs or get presents & decorate the house... we don't observe anything except some Christmas present exchanges.
If I had kids, I dunno what I'd do --
I'd think local churches have things they do for kids as an alternative; I'd probly look there.

ps. I agree with VC that Col. is about the Jewish festivals, food/drink laws & holy days

 

[VCViking]

My church does an alternative. We also go to Chuckee Cheese on halloween night. We have the whole place to ourselves. I think if you explain to kids what halloween is about, they will understand. A lot of members of my church have done this with their kids and they understand and now do not want to celebrate halloween. Of course they still want candy so they get it but not by trick or treating.

 

[dies-l]

I have to respectfully disagree. The tracts are a ministry -- God can work thru anything.

I agree that He can work through anything, but I don't think that that necessarily means that anything is good or best or should be regarded as synonymous with a biblical commandment.

Imho, I don't get why prostelytizing is "bad"? If you ask me, it's just our culture that has so drastically changed, that we have a deep aversion to people who boldly reach out or preach the gospel like they did in the OT.

I think the reason I see proselytizing (as in handing out tracts and such, as opposed to relationship evangelism) as unproductive (I wouldn't say "bad") is that is is most certainly not"boldly reaching our to preach the gospel." Simply handing out tracts isn't really preaching or teaching anything; it is simply sharing someone else's opinion (that you may happen to agree with) of what the Bible teaches. If all we are doing is handing out tracts, that seems to me to be the opposite of boldness (i.e., "I'm afraid to speak the truth, so I will let a piece of paper do it for me."). This is not to say that everyone who uses tracts takes this approach, but many of them do. The other question that comes to mind is what exactly do the tracts say. I want to be careful not to speak for all "tracts" here, because I am sure that some are better than others. But, the ones that I have seen seem to preach anything but the gospel. Most of the tracts that I have seen focus on convincing people that they are going to hell, not on the fact that Christ has saved them from their sins, if they are willing to accept His redemption. But, it seems that the whole idea of tracts takes the emphasis off of interpersonal evangelism, which necessarily requires us to pursue relationships with others. Sure, handing out a tract can be a conversation/relationship starter, but I would be hesitant to say that it is the best way to do this. But, if it does open the door to relationship, who am I to knock it?

Our culture doesn't mean we have to shut down other avenues (less popular ones) of witness tho. Me personally, I'm not into it, but I won't shut God's servants down for using tracts or door to door ministries.
I've heard people who come to the Lord by both means still today. I think we have to be careful with this stuff - I'd hate to stifle God's Spirit in working different ways than I'm comfortable.

You are right. I am not saying that people shouldn't hand out well-written tracts that actually proclaim the good news of Christ. I am just saying that that is not something that I am likely to do, and that it is not something that I am likely to encourage others to do. But, if someone believes that that is what they are called to do, then more power to them. The only real objection that I have is when people suggest that the simple act of handing out a piece of paper is somehow synonymous with The Great Commission. Perhaps, it is a tool, but it is nothing more than that, and imho, it is not a necessary tool by any stretch of the imagniartion.

 

[dies-l]

My church does an alternative. We also go to Chuckee Cheese on halloween night. We have the whole place to ourselves. I think if you explain to kids what halloween is about, they will understand. A lot of members of my church have done this with their kids and they understand and now do not want to celebrate halloween. Of course they still want candy so they get it but not by trick or treating.

I think that that is a fine way to (not) celebrate the (holi)day. Seriously, if your church is repulsed by the idea of Halloween, then that is a really good way to give the kids an alternative that does not raise the concerns that you have about Halloween, and that is a great way to respond to your convictions. On the other hand, many of us don't see anything inherently immoral or evil about Halloween, and we see it as nothing more than a fun little tradition. And, having large amounts of children running around provides our church the opportunity to show God's love and generosity and to build a relationship with our community. It seems to me that God can use even a holiday that you view as evil as an opportunity to share His love with others. And, that is what we try to do through our church's "Halloween outreach" that I described in an above post.

 

[Shiversblood]

I basically like all holidays. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Saint patricks days, Easter, Cinco de mayo, New years, Birthdays, God will never convict me to stop celebrating holidays. I was simply shocked that some people think others should not celebrate holidays such as halloween because they are Christians. Even if Halloween started because of pagan ideas why should I care I'm not pagan so it isn't affecting me in a spiritual manner. How many children out trick or treating are pagan? lol. If my Church had the same standards as your guys church, i would simply feel unconfortable and would no longer attend there.

 

[fritz300]

Straight to the point,

Christmas and Easter are more of a abomination to God than Halloween is.

With that said and scripturally sound and standing, Halloween isn't exactly glorifying Him either.

Regards.
fritz

 

[Shiversblood]

An abomination to God? Surely you jest! How could God get mad about these petty issues

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Straight to the point,

Christmas and Easter are more of a abomination to God than Halloween is.

With that said and scripturally sound and standing, Halloween isn't exactly glorifying Him either.

Regards.
fritz

Neither is Columbus Day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, President's Day, Valentine's Day, Sweetest Day, Secretary's Day (oh wait, they don't call it that anymore), Boss' Day...

I could go on and on. But we still celebrate those days, right? And we GLADLY take the day off work for some of them, right?