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Featured Gun Laws vs Death rates.

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Yarddog, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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  2. expos4ever

    expos4ever Left This Site

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    Although the gun people will dispute it by bringing up exceptions and misleading arguments, the broad sweep of data demonstrates that gun control works.
     
  3. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I noticed Colorado gets a C, they actually recalled an elected representative for pushing for gun control laws. You can have the second amendment and still have serious gun control.
     
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  4. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    Guns from the 1700's would fill the sporting needs of this country, but it wouldn't help with the right to keep and bear arms.
    I was for gun control, but someone pointed out to me, we might have never needed our right to keep and bear arms, because we have it.
    1 Samuel chapter 13 verse 22
    So on the day of the battle not a soldier with Saul and Jonathan had a sword or spear in his hand; only Saul and his son Jonathan had them.
     
  5. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi mark,

    Well, that would only be supported by your claim if one understands that a 'C' rating is a satisfactory rating. Personally, I'd be looking for an 'A' or 'A-' to support that there is really some worthwhile proof that you can have the second amendment and 'serious' gun control. Further, your evidence doesn't really give any indication of what 'serious' gun control is. I don't really see the connection that an elected official who was pushing for gun control laws was recalled, meaning that Colorado has 'serious' gun control laws.

    God bless you,
    In Christ, ted
     
  6. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Well, it would. They are fire arms. They may not fulfill a need to protect oneself but very few people, as a percentage, 'need' protection that demands fire arms.


    If Saul would have been faithful to God, there wouldn't have been a problem.
     
  7. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you would look at the site you would see what 'serious gun laws' means.
     
  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is fine to say when law enforcement can get to your home in a few mins. But when often they can't for as long as 15 mins. or longer that is a different story. It's also a different story if an intruder is already in your home.
    Very few people, would mean that there is few home robberies, rapes, etc. which we know is not the case.

    Why would police need to carry guns if they didn't need to protect themselves and others from criminals?
     
  9. Denadii

    Denadii Member

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    Switzerland is a good example of gun laws....The law requires each adult to be armed...They have the lowest crime rate and lowest rate of violence on the planet....Unless I've misunderstood that last stat.
     
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  10. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi hank,

    Thanks for the heads up, but...

    For me, it still doesn't answer the question. I can go over some of them here.

    1. Child access prevention. Sure, we can make laws that firearms need to be locked up securely in a home where children are present. Yet we have children every year that find a firearm in their parents nightstand or dresser drawer or closet. So, how do you enforce such a law to make it effective? Do we send a police officer into every home with a firearm each night to make sure their weapons are secured? So, how serious is a gun law that there really isn't any effective way to enforce? Yes, we can all go in after the fact and play arm chair quarterback as to 'how', if the person had kept the law, such a thing wouldn't have happened. Will that bring a dead child back to life?

    While we only see a handful of cases that make the news where a child found a firearm in their home that wasn't secured, I rather imagine that the reality is that there are a lot of homes across America where a firearm sits pretty readily accessible to a child in that home. Now, maybe some of these parents are very strict with their children in telling them not to go rummaging through their stuff, but I believe that a lot of children 'know' of a firearm in their home in a drawer or closet, but the issue never comes to light so far as a child in that home committing some crime with that weapon. But, the question is how effective such a law really is?

    In a study found here: Study: Parents Don't Lock Up Guns
    Of 286 ER room visits for gun related accidents in a home, only 57% claimed that they locked up their weapons. Friend, that leaves 43% of gun owning families with firearms accessible to pretty much whoever lives in the home.

    Here's a claim made by another site: . Despite the mounting body count, no one has asked the National Rifle Association why they tell parents not to lock up their guns, or even reported that the NRA tells parents not to lock up their guns. (Here’s What Happened While The NRA Told Parents Not To Lock Up Their Guns)

    So, if that's such a great law and reveals that people are serious about gun control, then why isn't it the law nationwide? Do you think that support of the NRA's position might be the reason?

    2. Disarming dangerous people. How's that working out for us? Everytime that someone who seemed to be a fairly normal person for most of their life; living lives that many of us likely live, we have to redefine what constitutes a 'dangerous' person. Further, how do you effectively disarm a 'dangerous' person. If I'm in a gang, I think that most people might consider me a dangerous person. How does the law prevent me from holding a firearm in my hand? I likely can't have one registered in my name, but that isn't likely to stop me from having access to a firearm. So, how will the law effectively disarm dangerous people, even if they could possibly come to any agreement as to what constitutes a dangerous person? Is that considered a 'serious' law?

    3. Open carry restrictions. Despite the claim that this might be a good idea, we have more laws coming on the books approving of open carry than we have of preventing such a practice. Even if it would constitute a 'serious' law. It isn't going to be worth a hill of beans if fewer and fewer places adopt such a law.

    4. Prohibiting access to domestic abusers. Again this is similar to the 'disarming dangerous people' laws. How do we effectively prevent a wife or husband who becomes intent on killing their children or their spouse with a gun from either hiring someone to do it or getting access to a firearm themselves through non-legal methods?

    Now, I'm not going to go through all of the rest as they all have their failures in effectively controlling gun deaths through particular gun ownership laws. However, I think it telling that the rating chart rates 30 states as 'D' or 'F' and only two states as 'A-'. So, the question must be asked. If 'serious' gun laws would make a dent in gun violence, then why are their so few states that even bother to attain a 'B' or better? Any chance that it could be because of the support and power of the NRA?

    Just askin?

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  11. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    thank you. You know what would be interesting would be to say how many of those deaths were in places with stricter gun laws ( cities) as opposed to the GENERAL state. Additionally how many of those deaths were EITHER accidental and/or self infected. How many were done in self defense? I live in a rural county were TONS of people own guns, yet I have all of my 26 years and cannot remember the last time we have had a shooting.
     
  12. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I hate to tell you, but being faithful to God does not mean you will not face danger in this fallen world. I do not just mean for your faith I mean in general.
     
  13. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    And who implied otherwise?
     
  14. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi denadii,

    Here's an article that might shed some light on your understanding: Living with guns the Swiss way

    Note that in response to a pretty large number of citizens committing domestic violence and suicide with their home stored weapons in Switzerland, laws were made to separate the firearm into pieces and to stop merely allowing soldiers to keep their issued weapons after their military service. They have also taken steps to make it more difficult to have a weapon and the ammunition that goes with it. One person giving evidence clearly states that it is illegal to carry any firearm on the street. The evidence being that, yes, a lot of Swiss citizens do own firearms that are always kept at home because it's illegal to carry that firearm down the street.

    Trust me, the Swiss do have problems with the plethora of firearms that they have allowed to pretty freely circulate among their citizens and are now taking steps to 'fix' that. So, I think some of your evidence may be old.

    That's a fairly well used tactic of the NRA. They offer outdated or vaguely incomplete evidence to support their agenda. The law in Switzerland is not that every citizen be armed. I have no idea where you got that little nugget of information. As you might also glean from the article that if it's the law that every citizen be armed then the councilwoman who tells her story of being shot, would be in violation of that law. She testifies that she has never had a firearm in her home. If you can find that law, I'd like a link to it. Here's her testimony: Anne admits that she has always hated guns and when, long before the Zug attack, her partner moved in with her, she told him firmly that his Swiss army gun - which all Swiss men of fighting age are issued with - would not be living with them. So, I'd be interested in your sending me the link that gives such a law.

    God bless you,
    In Christ, ted
     
  15. Winken

    Winken Jonah !!! Supporter

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    I placed a handgun near our bed with trigger lock and nearby key. Then I thought, "Yeah....right...." after practicing an "intruder in our bedroom" scenario. I removed the the trigger lock and hid the key. I can't imagine having a trigger lock on the handgun in our car.
     
  16. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If all gun owners would apply gun safety the way the NRA teaches it, children would not be getting their hands on loaded weapons or any gun at all when unsupervised.
     
  17. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi hank,

    Can you offer the proof on which that preposition rests?

    God bless you,
    In Christ, ted
     
  18. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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  19. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Time really has nothing to do with the matter. Most criminals are long gone by the time police arrive even if alarms are sounded and criminals know that. You're better off with a dog.
    Police place themselves in far more dangerous situations than civilians but even then, most cops have never fired their weapons while on duty, other than gun ranges.
     
  20. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To include adult suicides in gun violence ratings of this type is disingenuous in my view.

    An other interesting fact is that some of the states with the least gun laws also have some of the lower suicide rates.
    https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

    It's true that almost 50% of suicides are guns deaths but that shouldn't be surprising because men commit suicide at 3.5 times the rate women do and women don't usually use guns even when available to them, while most men don't think about the same things that women do. If someone is serious about suicide they will find a way, not having access to a gun is not going to stop them.
     
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