Gun Deaths among US Children and Teens Rose 50% in Two Years

[Tuur]

Yeah but wasn't that a recent shooting? I'm pretty certain that was not in the 1950s or 1960s since they didn't have mass shootings back then due to most people being Christians.

Or a respect and fear of God., which is what I think the deist Benjamin Franklin was after with religious instruction in schools.

 

[Ragdoll]

Or a respect and fear of God., which is what I think the deist Benjamin Franklin was after with religious instruction in schools.

Franklin and Jefferson were both deist but were not atheist. Back in those days a deist did believe in a creator God. They even accepted the Old Testament events like the Exodus.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You don't have a point.




Asking if you support legalizing drugs is not a loaded question....there's no presumed assumptions present. You failed at this as well.

Sounds good.

If I need to know what my beliefs are down the road, I’ll be sure to ask you what they are because clearly you know me better than I do.

 

[Ragdoll]

I'll just drop this 6 minute video of common sense right here.

As for teen suicide. I think most of that has nothing to do with actual guns and more to do with the mental state of mind caused by socialism which leads people to insantity, depression and, of course...suicide. Belief in evolution can and often does lead to suicide. It rips hope from the body and the body needs hope to remain healthy. Obviously evolution theory is neither mentally healthy to believe or physically healthy to believe in. When God is removed from society then get used to these ugly stats about teen suicide. They have no hope because they know they are not among the 1% of the Super Rich which is what you have to be in order to live a happy life as an ecvolution believing person (and even that comes with its fair share of problems). With these anti-christian movement, gun deaths, suicides, stabbings, and you name it will only get worse if the real problems are not addressed.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah but wasn't that a recent shooting? I'm pretty certain that was not in the 1950s or 1960s since they didn't have mass shootings back then due to most people being Christians.

Oh ok...I thought you were inferring it had something to do with the gun clubs.

I don't see any connection between shootings and non Christians.

I think the connection probably lies in isolationism, bullying, depression, and hopelessness. Most of the mass shootings we talk about are acts of violent suicide. We forget that these people intend to die...so no amount of preparation will prevent them from killing. Their goal is to be killed....not go to jail....they simply have externalitized the causes of their misery and seek some notoriety in the act.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sounds good.

If I need to know what my beliefs are down the road, I’ll be sure to ask you what they are because clearly you know me better than I do.

Don't hesitate.

 

[Ragdoll]

Oh ok...I thought you were inferring it had something to do with the gun clubs.

I don't see any connection between shootings and non Christians.

I think the connection probably lies in isolationism, bullying, depression, and hopelessness. Most of the mass shootings we talk about are acts of violent suicide. We forget that these people intend to die...so no amount of preparation will prevent them from killing. Their goal is to be killed....not go to jail....they simply have externalitized the causes of their misery and seek some notoriety in the act.

Allow me to speak for myself. I am a Christian who knows many other Christians offline. I am a gun owner who owns 30 guns. I will be buying the new Ruger LC Carbine 45 acp when it arrives at my FFL. Yeah, I use terms like FFL which means I know my gun terminology. FFL is a legal gun store in which you can buy guns from. So when you order guns online you have to provide your FFL (gun store of your choice). I'm also an NRA member and a Golden Eagle of the NRA. But I digress.

I am a Christian who carries a gun on me every single day. I have a concealed carry license and two forms of defense insurance in the event I actually have to use a gun in self-defense. I go to the shooting range as much as possible to better my marksmanship with guns. I was raised with guns from childhood on up. I am trained in gun safety since the age of 12. I hunt, target shoot, and carry for protection. Yet there will never be a time when you see me on TV for committing any kind of gun crime. It will never happen. Yeah, I'm the gun slinging type. But I'm not the murdering type. I will never experience an accidental discharge either. It will never happen. I will never turn my own gun on myself in an act of suicide.

I am a Christian who holds strong to my Christian values. God comes first for me. I have spent my life with God and guns and see no problem being raised that way. I grew up in the country so guns come natural to the environment I grew up in. Today I teach new shooters that gun safety is more important then being a good shot. Being a good shot will come with time. Gun safety must be mastered right away because there is no room for error with a gun.


The problem today is that too many people get their hands on a gun with no prior education or gun training. They end up accidentally shooting themselves or other people. Or, they let the power of a gun go to their head because they do not have the same morality as a Christian gun owner has. So I see one's beliefs playing a vital role in gun safety. Today's young socialists are a danger to themselves and everyone else around them. They should not own guns because its very clear they cannot handle the power and lack the moral compass to own one. Most of our mass shootings were done by socialists as their social media accounts have proven.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you able to provide such data? I believe there is at least one study that works against the "substitution" argument. To wit:

Sure, a good case study is the UK.

The UK had one strict round of gun control measures in both 1987 (which eliminated semi-automatic rifles) and another in 1996 (which eliminated most handguns).

Not a huge shift in the numbers...

2 years prior to the restrictions, 7.4...with guns being the method used in ~50% of cases
2 years after the restrictions, 7.5...with "Hanging and suffocation" now sitting atop the list.

According to "Lost all Hope", a suicide prevention organization for England and Wales, "With the change in availability of firearms in the UK, the methods of suicide have become more evenly spread"


But we don't even really need to go that far in the weeds with the conversation about suicide rates...

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This simple Wikipedia data source alone should be sufficient to show that suicide rates aren't drastically impacted by gun ownership laws.

As I've said before, I'm a proponent of some stricter gun laws for a variety of reasons...but suicides shouldn't be one of those reasons.


Suicides are basically the "cop out" reason people give when they can't defend a pro gun control position on more substantive stats.

 

[Tuur]

Franklin and Jefferson were both deist but were not atheist. Back in those days a deist did believe in a creator God. They even accepted the Old Testament events like the Exodus.

Never said Franklin was an atheist. I was taught that Paine was, but that's not borne out by his writings. But he still had a different view of religion than Franklin.

All this said, and with due respect to Franklin's comments, wasn't Ethan Allen an atheist?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Allow me to speak for myself. I am a Christian who knows many other Christians offline. I am a gun owner who owns 30 guns. I will be buying the new Ruger LC Carbine 45 acp when it arrives at my FFL. Yeah, I use terms like FFL which means I know my gun terminology. FFL is a legal gun store in which you can buy guns from. So when you order guns online you have to provide your FFL (gun store of your choice). I'm also an NRA member and a Golden Eagle of the NRA. But I digress.

I am a Christian who carries a gun on me every single day. I have a concealed carry license and two forms of defense insurance in the event I actually have to use a gun in self-defense. I go to the shooting range as much as possible to better my marksmanship with guns. I was raised with guns from childhood on up. I am trained in gun safety since the age of 12. I hunt, target shoot, and carry for protection. Yet there will never be a time when you see me on TV for committing any kind of gun crime. It will never happen. Yeah, I'm the gun slinging type. But I'm not the murdering type. I will never experience an accidental discharge either. It will never happen. I will never turn my own gun on myself in an act of suicide.

I am a Christian who holds strong to my Christian values. God comes first for me. I have spent my life with God and guns and see no problem being raised that way. I grew up in the country so guns come natural to the environment I grew up in. Today I teach new shooters that gun safety is more important then being a good shot. Being a good shot will come with time. Gun safety must be mastered right away because there is no room for error with a gun.


The problem today is that too many people get their hands on a gun with no prior education or gun training. They end up accidentally shooting themselves or other people. Or, they let the power of a gun go to their head because they do not have the same morality as a Christian gun owner has. So I see one's beliefs playing a vital role in gun safety. Today's young socialists are a danger to themselves and everyone else around them. They should not own guns because its very clear they cannot handle the power and lack the moral compass to own one. Most of our mass shootings were done by socialists as their social media accounts have proven.

Ok....

I'm certain you believe your moral values will keep you on the right side of the law and safety.

It's even possible you're correct.

However, we can't force anyone into Christianity so it's a non-starter.

 

[Ragdoll]

Ok....

I'm certain you believe your moral values will keep you on the right side of the law and safety.

It's even possible you're correct.

However, we can't force anyone into Christianity so it's a non-starter.

Well, lol....I'm not out there preaching the Gospel at gun point lol! But I know what you mean. But keeping our laws civil is what we should be focusing on. We should not be concerned about what atheists think about law since they are lawless to begin with and want to Defund the Police. I'm not for that. I am for protecting our Constitutional Rights which includes the 2nd Amendment. That in no way is forcing my Christian faith on others.

 

[Tuur]

This simple Wikipedia data source alone should be sufficient to show that suicide rates aren't drastically impacted by gun ownership laws.

Our first classmate to die committed suicide. He didn't use a firearm.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Let's really step in the fire ant mound and say what changed is the lack of religious instruction in schools. Benjamin Franklin, who was a deist, was a strong advocate of such instruction. I have a half-remembered correspondence with Thomas Paine in mind (I think it was in the wake of Paine's The Age of Reason) arguing that it instilled a sense of, well, morality, though that's not the proper word here in those for whom it wasn't evident by reason. That was quite a secular argument.

There's an even bigger fire ant mound over there, so let's stomp in that one, too: What is the possibility that the rate hasn't changed, only that they were under-reported? My mother remembers when someone she knew who opened fire in a public location after WWII, but I can't seem to find mention of it. He may have killed himself or was killed by law enforcement).

Both good questions.