Gun Laws vs Death rates.

Hank77

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Hi hank,

Can you offer the proof on which that preposition rests?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
Sure, just go to the NRA's site/sites. They also put out gun safety pamphlets with the info. and teach gun safety classes.
If you listened to the civilian in Texas who confronted the church shooter you will hear him say that he got his gun and ammo from his gun safe, grabbed a hand full of ammo to load in the magazine. He was an NRA instructor for years.

NRA Basics of Home Firearm Safety (HANDBOOK ONLY)

Never load a gun until you are ready to use it.
Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.

NRA Explore | NRA Gun Safety Rules
 
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dqhall

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Yarddog

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Please explain
Switzerland is a good example of gun laws....The law requires each adult to be armed...They have the lowest crime rate and lowest rate of violence on the planet....Unless I've misunderstood that last stat.
You may gotten your info from a fake meme. The only people required to own guns in Switzerland are militia members. Their ownership rate per 100,000 is over half that of the US and they rank 3rd for gun ownership and 43rd in gun deaths.

FACT CHECK: Gun Ownership and Homicides in Honduras vs. Switzerland
 
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Followers4christ

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In my area which is in the country everyone has guns and we do not have a murder rate as crimes like that do not happen as we watch out for each other. To try to make getting guns harder for these hard working Americans is not the answer and gun bans are un-American. It takes the police about 15-30mins to get here so if someone is breaking in to your house or trying to harm you, your best not calling the police. Guns out here in the country are made for protection from animals and people.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason,
 
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Darkhorse

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If suicides are included in their "gun deaths" then their chart is meaningless.

Two-thirds of all gun deaths nationwide are suicides.

Japan, with virtually no guns, has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S.
 
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Hank77

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Time really has nothing to do with the matter. Most criminals are long gone by the time police arrive even if alarms are sounded and criminals know that. You're better off with a dog.
Of coarse time makes a difference in home invasions.

Police place themselves in far more dangerous situations than civilians but even then, most cops have never fired their weapons while on duty, other than gun ranges.
Police have guns to protect themselves and others. Because they usually don't have to use one doesn't mean they shouldn't have one in case they do.
It is the same with civilians, because they may never need to use it, doesn't mean they shouldn't have one in case they do.
Hopefully neither one ever has to use it.
 
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miamited

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Hi hank,

Thanks for your response.

Sure, just go to the NRA's site/sites. They also put out gun safety pamphlets with the info. and teach gun safety classes.
If you listened to the civilian in Texas who confronted the church shooter you will hear him say that he got his gun and ammo from his gun safe, grabbed a hand full of ammo to load in the magazine. He was an NRA instructor for years.

NRA Basics of Home Firearm Safety (HANDBOOK ONLY)

Never load a gun until you are ready to use it.
Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.

NRA Explore | NRA Gun Safety Rules

Now, the million dollar question is how do we make every gun owner like that one in Texas who confronted the shooter? I think it also a valid point the neighbor to the church in Texas, as far as we know, didn't stop a single death. 26 people died even though there was an NRA instructor living right next door to the church. Maintaining his firearm in the way that the NRA says that he should.

Just like the shooter in Las Vegas, eventually responsible gun owners got to him, but not until he had already killed 52 people. Is that what responsible gun ownership means? That we can stop shooters after they've already killed several people if we just had more responsible gun owners?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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Hank77

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If suicides are included in their "gun deaths" then their chart is meaningless.

Two-thirds of all gun deaths nationwide are suicides.

Japan, with virtually no guns, has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S.
From a longer article but I thought this was important... [emphasis mine]

Lanny Berman, a psychologist who is executive director of the American Association of Suicidology, said that the issue of guns and suicide is complex – and confusing. Overall in the United States, the percentage of suicides committed with guns has fallen in recent years even as the overall number of suicides hasn't changed much.

"I'd like to think that it's come down because there's been a lot of public education and work in that area," Berman said. "That said, hanging deaths have increased, and we can't figure out how to engage restricted access to ropes and other forms of ligature. I can argue safe storage of a firearm, and convince some people that's wise, but belts, and guitar straps and anything else one might use to hang themselves with, I have no argument."

Gun deaths: Suicide rate quadruple homicide rate | Rocky Mountain PBS
 
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Yarddog

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coarse time makes a difference in home invasions.
Yeah, the police have no time to get there in time to prevent it, in most all cases.
Police have guns to protect themselves and others. Because they usually don't have to use one doesn't mean they shouldn't have one in case they do.
Who has said they shouldn't?
It is the same with civilians, because they may never need to use it, doesn't mean they shouldn't have one in case they do.
I haven't said they shouldn't but when a gun is brought into one's home the gun is more likely to be used to kill a family member than used to defend against home invasion. (That is my main reason for not owning a firearm)
Hopefully neither one ever has to use it.
Amen
 
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dogs4thewin

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And who implied otherwise?
You said if Saul had obeyed God it would not be a problem. Well, I hate to tell you, but just because someone is faithful to God does not mean that they will not get in trouble in this fallen world.
 
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Hank77

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Now, the million dollar question is how do we make every gun owner like that one in Texas who confronted the shooter? I think it also a valid point the neighbor to the church in Texas, as far as we know, didn't stop a single death. 26 people died even though there was an NRA instructor living right next door to the church. Maintaining his firearm in the way that the NRA says that he should.
He does not live next door to the church, he lives on a different street. He did not hear the shooting when it started. When he got across the street from the church the shooter was getting in his vehicle.
The shooter had several more guns and ammo in his vehicle. It doesn't appear that he was finished with his carnage, but we cannot know for sure.
Just like the shooter in Las Vegas, eventually responsible gun owners got to him, but not until he had already killed 52 people. Is that what responsible gun ownership means? That we can stop shooters after they've already killed several people if we just had more responsible gun owners?
Because someone can't always stop a mass shooting does that mean that people should not own guns to protect themselves and others in their own home?
 
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Hank77

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Yeah, the police have no time to get there in time to prevent it, in most all cases.
So ......
Who has said they shouldn't?
Many people are saying they shouldn't?
I haven't said they shouldn't but when a gun is brought into one's home the gun is more likely to be used to kill a family member than used to defend against home invasion. (That is my main reason for not owning a firearm)
And most guns in the home are never used to kill anyone.
You are perfectly within your rights to not own a gun, I haven't heard anyone insist that you should or must.
 
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Yarddog

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You said if Saul had obeyed God it would not be a problem. Well, I hate to tell you, but just because someone is faithful to God does not mean that they will not get in trouble in this fallen world.
And again, who implied otherwise.? Have you read the verse inn question in context?
 
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Yarddog

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So ......
So, your response about police response time doesn't work.
Many people are saying they shouldn't?
I haven't and haven't seen others say that. Common sense gun laws does not mean no guns.
And most guns in the home are never used to kill anyone.
That is true but when they do it is more likely a family member that dies.
You are perfectly within your rights to not own a gun, I haven't heard anyone insist that you should or must.
No and I haven't insisted anyone on this forum shouldn't own guns.
 
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Hank77

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So, your response about police response time doesn't work.
What? If someone breaks into my home and I am armed I can protect myself and hopefully hold them at gun point until the police arrive in about 20 mins.
A Christian couple in CA had this happen. It turned out that the criminal had robbed and beaten another retired couple and had broken into other homes. So yeah, they took a violent criminal off the streets. These kinds to things happen often but they don't make national news.
Common sense gun laws does not mean no guns.
I agree and my state has some of the toughest gun laws, which I don't have a problem with.
No and I haven't insisted anyone on this forum shouldn't own guns.
I never said you did.
 
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Yarddog

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What? If someone breaks into my home and I am armed I can protect myself and hopefully hold them at gun point until the police arrive in about 20 mins.
You said, "That is fine to say when law enforcement can get to your home in a few mins." to my statement, "very few people, as a percentage, 'need' protection that demands fire arms." Since I then respond to that that most criminals are in and out in a few mintes
A Christian couple in CA had this happen. It turned out that the criminal had robbed and beaten another retired couple and had broken into other homes. So yeah, they took a violent criminal off the streets. These kinds to things happen often but they don't make national news.
Anyone can cite single cases to back up their position such as we just had a man shot and killed because a pulled his gun instead of his wallet. The perps didn't bother his wife, they just took his money and fled. But, my point has always been about what is most likely.
I agree and my state has some of the toughest gun laws, which I don't have a problem with.
Mine got an 'F' and gun death rate is one of the highest.
I never said you did.
 
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miamited

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Hi hank,

I fully realize that I seem to be out of step with the general understanding of the American population regarding the ownership of firearms, but since you asked....

Because someone can't always stop a mass shooting does that mean that people should not own guns to protect themselves and others in their own home?

My answer would be yes and there does seem to be a veritable avalanche of evidence that suggests that it is the only answer to solve the problem. Our nation has spent at least the last 40 years trying to legislate safe gun ownership and ways in which we should vet prospective gun buyers. It just doesn't seem to be working. Over those same 40 years, violent and regular gun deaths in this country have just continued pretty much as if we've not been able to make even the slightest dent in the problem through the legislative means of coming up with some way to vet gun ownership. In fact, despite all of these hundreds of different laws to address the issue, the issue itself has gotten progressively worse, according to the evidence of numbers of gun deaths and regularity of mass gun violence in this country.

There just isn't any way, short of our having a crystal ball and calling upon the gods of prophecy, to regularly and successfully determine when a person gets angry and what kinds of things rile their anger. Thousands of people have purchased firearms legally and then something snaps one day and they go off the deep end. There isn't anyway to predetermine that. We aren't that smart or all knowing. We're all just people trying to do the best that we can with pretty much only a mind that can deal with the here and now.

Some folks get cut off on the freeway and start waving a gun around or actually shooting at others. Some people get caught up in a divorce and their anger drives them to take a gun, which they bought when they were perfectly legal and sane, and kill someone. We are the only civilized nation that waves guns around and carries them around pretty much in the same way that people carry around their car keys and the evidence is clear that such freedom is costing us thousands upon thousands of lives every year. People are suffering deep loss for their loved ones because we're just afraid to do the only thing that's really going to stop the problem.

Now, I imagine that we will continue to debate and squabble over all sorts of laws and procedures that we think will resolve the problem. We'll see how that works out, but mark my words, the only way to fix the problem is to take firearms out of the hands of the general population. I fully understand that our Constitution gives us a certain right to the ownership of firearms and if everybody wants to stick with that, it's ok with me, I don't run the world. But it seems painfully obvious to me that we being the only country that has such a constitutional right may well explain why we're also the only country with a mountain of bodies that we bury every year. Why families have to live in fear of gun violence which then begats the purchase of more guns. To me, it's a sickening spiral that isn't going to end with the current mindset that our nation has. We'll see.

God bless you
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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Hi hank,

Ok, I'll bite. You said:
A Christian couple in CA had this happen. It turned out that the criminal had robbed and beaten another retired couple and had broken into other homes. So yeah, they took a violent criminal off the streets. These kinds to things happen often but they don't make national news.

I'll agree that such a thing doesn't make national news, but there are polling agencies that would have statistics on that. Millions of home pool drownings aren't the stuff that makes national news, but you can pull up statistics of number of pool drownings across the country. How about some stats to back up your claim that 'these kinds of things happen often'. How often? How about some numbers?

Sure, I can recount the one incident or maybe three where I heard that someone was able to thwart a home robbery. Of course, most of the time there really isn't even any evidence that the home robber would have killed them. I can even recount a couple of times in my entire life that I've heard stories of someone actually having a weapon that stopped someone else from killing. But here's my problem. While I can recount one or two or three incidences over the last 10 years that I heard of a gunman being thwarted by someone else having a firearm, I'm regularly reading pretty much every month of hundreds of people being killed by others who own firearms where there wasn't anyone to step in and save them.

So, give me some numbers. How many people last year 2016 thwarted a murderer because they owned a firearm?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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buzuxi02

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Lenient gun laws work well in places which are homogenous with a culture of gun ownership. In multicultural societies where every idiot gets a gun because they saw an action movie and suffer from stress, not so good.

Most gun deaths in America are suicides, while most suicides overall are from intentional overdosing.
 
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Some gun fanatics try and use the argument that no gun control law is going to stop all mass killings. First off, no one is claiming that gun control will stop all mass killings. Just after the Texas shooting Mitch McConnell, Majority Whip of the Senate stated:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Monday it is hard to find a way to stop outrages from "evil people." "It's hard to envision a foolproof way to prevent individual outrages by evil people,

His statement that included “…a foolproof way…” is insulting to the public. That statement may also be a way to misdirect the issue, please his voter base, and avoid the law makers’ responsibility. First off there is no reason for an assault rifle ( AR-556 Semiautomatic Tactical Rifle) such as the Texas killer used on the church people to be legal, none at all! That assault gun can fire up to 120 bullets a minute and a professional gunman can get 180 bullets a minute out of that rifle. There is NO NEED for any hunter or a person that wants to defend their family to have a gun that is an assault rifle.

There are hundreds of guns that can be used for protecting your family and none of them need to be able to fire 120 bullets a minute. As for hunters they can buy a CZ-550 American Safari Magnum in .375 H&H Magnum

“A hunter armed with a .375 H&H is capable of taking down even the biggest, toughest, and most dangerous animals in the world like buffalo, elephant, and grizzly bear.”

This rifle is a bolt action rifle and holds 5-6 bullets. No hunter is going to need more than 5-6 bullets to kill the big game. Therefore the hunter can have this gun that can get the job done for any game hunting. A rifle that shoots 120 bullets a minute is not necessary and should be illegal. All such assault rifles should be illegal and that will not prevent any hunter from hunting and any citizen from protecting their family.


I will let my congressmen know that I will not vote for any politician that is a cop-out and will not take measures that can reduce the mass killings.
 
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