Greek Priest Convicted Of Serving Liturgy On Annunciation During Pandemic

[ArmyMatt]

I think we forget, especially in the luxurious living of America (as compared to so many other countries) that this is a battle to the death. That is, we should be ready to follow Christ into suffering and death. Have I done that? Not hardly. I think most of us find life very agreeable and the idea of rocking the boat doesn't sit well with us.

yep, it’s the downside to our prosperity.

 

[The Liturgist]

Greece is the only country in the world that has the Orthodox Church as the state religion which, to my understanding, makes the Church subordinate to the State (someone in the know, please feel free to correct me)


Other so-called Orthodox countries; Russia, Georgia, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc; are officially and legally secular although some to mention in their Constitutions that the Orthodox Church is special, but separate from the State.

In Finland the Finnish Orthodox Church (under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarchate) along with the Finnish Lutheran Church are state churches, as they account for the majority of religious adherents (10% being Orthodox). For this reason historically the Finnish church was for many years the only Orthodox church to use the Gregorian Calendar even for calculating the date of Easter, although I recall reading that the half of the Estonian Orthodox Church that is now under the EP also switched to the Gregorian Calendar (if true, I would imagine this is because of the historic cultural connections and increasingly close international relations between Finland and Estonia, who both speak a dialect of the same language family which also includes Hungarian and some minority languages in Russia, although 15-20% of Finns speak Swedish).

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, there are bishops who pretty much let the parishes be to serve.

Stopping worship for any reason equals evil. The amount of outright faithless wimps who stayed home instead of entreated God ought to be doing repentance on their knees. This includes clergy.

I’ve thought about filing lawsuits seeking compensation which could be donated to parishes adversely affected by the worship ban in light of the Supreme Court having ruled it was unlawful, but the statute of limitations might have run out, I’m not sure. Also being litigious feels somehow like it clashes with Orthodox teaching, I’m not sure, hence my mentioning the idea, to see if it would be spiritually a bad idea.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I’ve thought about filing lawsuits seeking compensation which could be donated to parishes adversely affected by the worship ban in light of the Supreme Court having ruled it was unlawful, but the statute of limitations might have run out, I’m not sure. Also being litigious feels somehow like it clashes with Orthodox teaching, I’m not sure, hence my mentioning the idea, to see if it would be spiritually a bad idea.

do you think that would be worth the fight?

 

[The Liturgist]

do you think that would be worth the fight?

Indeed, that is the question.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Indeed, that is the question.

yeah, I dunno. personally, I am at the let’s move on stage

 

[abacabb3]

Indeed, that is the question.

I'd say yes, simply because the tradition is not to sue within the Church and honestly laying down and taking the covid stuff was not an example of turning the other cheek, but of cowardice and fear of death--the exact opposite of the sort of CHristian witness non-resistance is supposed to portray. I say fight and let them persecute transparently without our consent. That way our confession/witness means something instead of nothing.

 

[Thekla]

In my youth, there was an expectation of doing time for one’s beliefs (Casius Clay/Mohammed Ali, MLK), though I’m personally glad iirc the priests’ sentence was not incarceration. I do wonder why the work arounds of the early and catacomb Church weren’t used - could the Antimension be used outside the temple - early in the pandemic (shut in communion used to be part of serving one’s parishioners). I understand I am likely the weakling in this thread - fully vaccinated, caretaker for 2 w/ health conditions so I continue to mask & our ability to attend liturgy is constrained anyway. I am also told (by those more spiritually mature than me) that the vaccine damages one’s spiritual state, that I’m living on borrowed time (the prophecy that I now have a mortal health condition, that I will die in about a couple of years), though I think we’re all on borrowed time. Christians had so many (even more than usual) opportunities to serve God during lockdown - ministering to those in need. We still do - the increase in homelessness is an example of our opportunity to practice what St. Iakovos called the true religion, or is it just Liturgy ?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Christians had so many (even more than usual) opportunities to serve God during lockdown - ministering to those in need. We still do - the increase in homelessness is an example of our opportunity to practice what St. Iakovos called the true religion, or is it just Liturgy ?

good point, here.

 

[whatisinausername]

So I am confused. Does Jesus miraculously prevent you from getting COVID?
I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand why someone would gather people who are often elderly together during a pandemic?
Does Jesus want people to get together and spread a virus that kills them and others or cause permanent health problems?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So I am confused. Does Jesus miraculously prevent you from getting COVID?

in the Eucharist? yes. the Body and Blood of the great Physician does not spread disease.

 

[whatisinausername]

in the Eucharist? yes. the Body and Blood of the great Physician does not spread disease.

What about the breath of those around you?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What about the breath of those around you?

it certainly can.

 

[truefiction1]

So I am confused. Does Jesus miraculously prevent you from getting COVID?
I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand why someone would gather people who are often elderly together during a pandemic?
Does Jesus want people to get together and spread a virus that kills them and others or cause permanent health problems?

Measures ought to have been taken to prevent the spread of COVID in Liturgy, but making it so that no one who are of the flock of Christ could attend Liturgy where they could receive Communion is not the work of the Good Shepherd. It's the work of those who are not. Most of the people were too afraid to want to come to Liturgy, and especially receive Communion anyway, so the typical parish would only had to have Communed a small handful of people each week. Many parishes did not even try. Bishops were afraid of priests getting sick, because they struggle to supply priests to parishes in many diocese and can't afford to have fewer priests than they already have. Thus, bishops forbade their priests from having Liturgical services with people present. Priests may have been afraid of getting sick themselves, so that they didn't want to hold Divine services and put themselves at risk. Many, I'm sure, thought and felt that they were doing what they needed to do to protect the people they serve from getting sick and perhaps dying or to protect the institution of the Church. That is understandable to a degree. However, Christ, His Apostles, and His saints have all preached the Gospel to many people, and the Apostles and priests have Baptized countless Christians throughout the age of the Church, while knowing full well that by making them believers in Christ they were also putting their mortal lives in danger. Missionaries die while journeying, either by accident or sickness, or by being killed by hostile natives or non-Orthodox Missionaries. Lay believers are also imprisoned, tortured, and killed because they believe Christ and keep His commandments - especially the commandment to eat His body and drink His blood. In light of this truth of history and Tradition there is simply no real excuse for interrupting the Holy Tradition over COVID. If a person chooses to receive the body and blood of Christ in the face of peril, whether from persecution or disease, then let them do so.

 

[prodromos]

What about the breath of those around you?

No one caught Covid coming to the Liturgy at our parish. If people were sick, they didn't come, which is the way people normally behave when there is an infectious disease doing the rounds.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If a person chooses to receive the body and blood of Christ in the face of peril, whether from persecution or disease, then let them do so.

this

 

[whatisinausername]

Measures ought to have been taken to prevent the spread of COVID in Liturgy, but making it so that no one who are of the flock of Christ could attend Liturgy where they could receive Communion is not the work of the Good Shepherd. It's the work of those who are not. Most of the people were too afraid to want to come to Liturgy, and especially receive Communion anyway, so the typical parish would only had to have Communed a small handful of people each week. Many parishes did not even try. Bishops were afraid of priests getting sick, because they struggle to supply priests to parishes in many diocese and can't afford to have fewer priests than they already have. Thus, bishops forbade their priests from having Liturgical services with people present. Priests may have been afraid of getting sick themselves, so that they didn't want to hold Divine services and put themselves at risk. Many, I'm sure, thought and felt that they were doing what they needed to do to protect the people they serve from getting sick and perhaps dying or to protect the institution of the Church. That is understandable to a degree. However, Christ, His Apostles, and His saints have all preached the Gospel to many people, and the Apostles and priests have Baptized countless Christians throughout the age of the Church, while knowing full well that by making them believers in Christ they were also putting their mortal lives in danger. Missionaries die while journeying, either by accident or sickness, or by being killed by hostile natives or non-Orthodox Missionaries. Lay believers are also imprisoned, tortured, and killed because they believe Christ and keep His commandments - especially the commandment to eat His body and drink His blood. In light of this truth of history and Tradition there is simply no real excuse for interrupting the Holy Tradition over COVID. If a person chooses to receive the body and blood of Christ in the face of peril, whether from persecution or disease, then let them do so.

COVID kills other people beside yourself. I fail to see any nobility in risking the lives of others.

 

[ArmyMatt]

COVID kills other people beside yourself. I fail to see any nobility in risking the lives of others.

for certain folks, the eternal risk of not taking communion, which affects others, is a far greater risk.

 

[truefiction1]

COVID kills other people beside yourself. I fail to see any nobility in risking the lives of others.

Again: Christ, His Apostles, and all the saints were willing to risk the lives of others. They knew that the Kingdom of God is more precious than life, and would not value life more than they value God.

 

[whatisinausername]

Again: Christ, His Apostles, and all the saints were willing to risk the lives of others. They knew that the Kingdom of God is more precious than life, and would not value life more than they value God.

We are talking about causing random innocent people to drown in their own lungs for individuals to receive communion when staying home was acceptable. I would not kill others for my faith. I'd prefer to make a sacrifice for the good of others.

Jesus had his followers and waited to the last minute to have the Last Supper. Churches denied communion as a form on penance. This attitude seems highly individualistic. It is COMMUNION. Reminds of the people that hoarded toilet paper.