Government has ZERO of it's own $'s It CAN NOT CREAT JOBS.

[rturner76]

Regan=Iran Contra Granada, Bush Sr Iran Contra Iraq 1, Bush Jr Iraq 2 Afganastan Patriot Act. God Bless America!

 

[A2SG]

Just what is the 'Republican view of society'?

Basically, to object to anything and everything Obama does, even when the idea was a Republican idea to begin with. Oh, and to give tax cuts to rich folks.

Is it Reagans, Goldwaters (and which Goldwater since the idealist of the 60s seemed rather addled in his old age), Bush Sr., Bush Jr, McCains, Romneys, Pauls ad infinitum.

In order, no, no, no, yes, no, which one? and no.

The current crop of Republican presidential hopefuls idealizes Reagan (even as they pretend he didn't do what he actually did, eg raise taxes), but follows the gameplan of Dubya and his advisors.

The Republicans are not the party of God

They claim to be.

(although there are devoted Christians who see far more hope in what some Republicans advocate in areas such as limited government and free enterprise who will support them)

A view that was reflected, and brought to its logical conclusion, in rturner76's post.

and even such outspoken Christians as Michelle Bachman seem unsure on how to translate their faith into the political realm (I wish she had challenged that one guy who asked her if she "submitted herself to her own huband" in a debate to finish that particular passage since he left out a VERY important part of the passage, ie "as unto the Lord").

If she's unsure of how to "translate her faith into the political realm", she's good at hiding that uncertainty.

But, that aside, It seems to me that most republicans of today are more in favor of the view of society as seen in Atlas Shrugged than the one seen in the bible.

-- A2SG, if we could harness irony as an energy source, we'd solve all the world's energy problems.....

 

[Lee52]

It amazes me that conversation talks about political parties in the USA as if there is any real difference in where they want to take the American people. R&D=2 sides of the same exact coin. That coin is money and power over others. The D side of the coin really wants a Marxists society. The R side really wants a facists society. Both want a 2-caste system of haves and have nots. Pay attention to the economic facts people, both are slowly eliminating the middle class working people that made the USA the greatest experiment in government on this earth. Yet, like Greece and Rome before us, we are declining. A new world power is emerging. This new world power is not going to be as generous nor accepting as the USA was in our early years.

Our Constitution is being whittled away, one word, one sentence at a time, slowly so that nobody really notices. The news media is a puppet to the power instead of a free mouthpiece of the public and a watchdog that it used to be. Now, if someone in the USA sounds the alarm that our Constitution is being erased, the news media picks up some major disaster or newsworthy item and blasts it across all media outlets to divert the people's focus away from the real issues affecting the solvency of the USA.

Politicians in the USA are doing what politicians in the USA do, they are playing the people for personal gain. There are few, if any, born-again Christian politicians. They do not live their faith in the halls of the Capitol building or their Senate and House office buildings. They pander to the Christians, and christians, and theists, for votes to get or stay elected to power.

Christians that vote R or D in elections are dancing with the devil. Neither represents the vast majority of people in the USA. Neither is concerned with pleasing GOD or making decisions with GOD or the people in mind. The R&D crowd are health, wealth and prosperity preachers on TV bilking the people for millions and billions of dollars each year. Money and power are their god. That is the god they worship.

 

[rturner76]

When Lee talks.......I listen. Good day sir! Good morning where you are, a late one for me.

 

[Lee52]

When Lee talks.......I listen. Good day sir! Good morning where you are, a late one for me.

I am still here, where I have been since July. I changed my profile location for "security purposes", so I changed it back to my home town.

It is good to see you on here.

I have missed you and your wit and your wisdom.

Be blessed,
Lee52

 

[stiggywiggy]

Originally Posted by cfyahoo08

Originally Posted by stiggywiggy

No, I can't recall ever discussing with you whether or not one can be compassionate with money that is not their own. Must have been someone else. But I'd be interested in your theories on how this is done.
​

I would be very interested in this as well.
​

Then why don't the two of you have the conversation?

It wouldn't be much of a conversation. I guess we could both SPECULATE together on that which puzzles us both: whether or not one can be compassionate with money that is not their own.

See, CF, Stiggy and I are old friends from another forum, so I already know exactly how that conversation will go

-- A2SG, I'll just sit here and watch, if you don't mind....

Not much to watch, other than your telling me that you don't want to explain exactly how one can have compassion with other people's money.

 

[Needing_Grace]

#1 are you sure about that ? #2 How well does your DMV work ?

My trips to the DMV have always been pretty simple and quick.

Of course, I do talk to the Motor Vehicle Field Reps like they are people and with respect and don't take that haughty, "I'm a taxpayer, you're may slave" kind of attitude so many people take with public employees nowadays.

 

[Needing_Grace]

Very sure, when you look at the number of municipal, county, state and federal jobs.

My DMV works very well thankyou. Got in, got out, boom, done.

What doesn't work very well is the Target I shopped at and stood in line for an hour while the cashier argued with a customer that couldn't even speak english.

the private sector can fail just as the public sector can; it just depends on who is at the helm. An idiot running either show is doomed to fail.

I was in Big Lots yesterday and there was a controversy over the price of a freaking soccer ball. I had to wait 5 minutes extra in line at a Big Lots because they couldn't figure out the price of a soccer ball.

A few years ago I had to go to the DMV because of a confusion with the registration on my car. After a short wait for my number to be called, I was called to the window and the confusion was dealt with in less than a couple of minutes. No muss, no fuss.

And people call public employees incompetent and inefficient.

 

[heymikey80]

A few years ago I had to go to the DMV because of a confusion with the registration on my car. After a short wait for my number to be called, I was called to the window and the confusion was dealt with in less than a couple of minutes. No muss, no fuss.

And people call public employees incompetent and inefficient.

A few years ago I had to go to the DMV for a confusion over the registration of my car.

Four hours later I emerged as furious with those people as I ever have been with any public service.

Some people are good, some people are bad.

Unfortunately the public employee system has no way of firing the bad.

About ten years ago I started noticing that I wasn't getting my mail every day.

I started putting out "mail to send" to verify.

At the end of the week I took it up with the postmaster at my post office, that the employee was getting to my mailbox twice a week. "What can you do? We can't fire the person, that takes too much paperwork, and we couldn't get good help to replace him even if we could fire him."

 

[stiggywiggy]

The Republicans are not the party of God.

They claim to be.

And yet they don't, which is exactly why you failed to supply any quote from any leading Republican even implying such an absurd thought.

 

[heymikey80]

The Republicans are not the party of God.

Nope, they're not. I know plenty of nonreligious Republicans.

 

[Needing_Grace]

A few years ago I had to go to the DMV for a confusion over the registration of my car.

Four hours later I emerged as furious with those people as I ever have been with any public service.

What kind of issue was it? Was it a complicated or unusual situation?

Some people are good, some people are bad.

Even in the private sector. I almost had the employees of a private insurance company try to stiff me for a rather large sum of money until I challenged them after reading their research.

Unfortunately the public employee system has no way of firing the bad.

About ten years ago I started noticing that I wasn't getting my mail every day.

I started putting out "mail to send" to verify.

At the end of the week I took it up with the postmaster at my post office, that the employee was getting to my mailbox twice a week. "What can you do? We can't fire the person, that takes too much paperwork, and we couldn't get good help to replace him even if we could fire him."

That's bad management. You should be furious at that manager for not wanting to do his job and feeding you his excuses.

Yes, he would have to actually document the reason for reporting that employee to his management for disciplinary action. Oh, no! He'd have to actually do a little investigative work. That's part of being a manager.
Yes, there may even be union involvement (they are required, by LAW, to protect the rights of all their members in disciplinary matters). The union's job is to make sure that the manager did his job correctly.

This manager didn't want to add the extra things to his to-do list, so he sold you a line of nonsense and you bought it.

Is it any wonder that the people under him are so lazy?

That's when you should have kicked your complaint upstairs.

 

[Schroeder]

How do you figure?

Taxes are spent by the government to pay teachers, fire fighters, etc., how is that money not back in the economy? And how are corporate profits, amassing wealth in private bank accounts instead of being used to create jobs, in the economy, exactly?

People pay the taxes. and this is a state government not the FEDERAL government. And teachers and firefighters etc. are paid for by us so it doesnt go into the economy except when they spend there money on goods made by private industry. Well for one corporations dont make money unless they provide a product for the consumer which isnt made except when they HIRE some one to make it. the whole point of business is to make wealth. how much they make and keep is there business and if you dont like it dont work for them or buy there product.YES there are crooks involved in some of them. but it is our due diligents to stay away from them so they cannot take our money. if they have no way of getting the money the go away.

Really? So corporate jets are wise investments, but paying teachers, police officers, fire fighters, etc. aren't? Single individuals owning multi-million dollar homes (plural) is a wise use of money, but governments paying for road construction to be used by everyone isn't?

Care to explain the logic there?

people build those planes and houses do they not. Which is creating jobs and NOT costing Us tax payers more money. And these again are state governments which the federal government has extorted.

None. It creates jobs, in fact, by hiring millions of people, like teachers, police officers, fire fighters, etc.

-- A2SG, unless, of course, you think a nation that's ignorant, constantly being robbed and on fire is better than what we have now.....

STATE government is being hijacked by the federal government an awful lot of federal laws are actually unconstitutional because they are for the state to decide not the federal government. These Jobs are paid by the people. money doesnt grow on trees. We are ignorant we voted in obama, we are being robbed taxed for things that are wast-full Not on fire yet but if the economy goes to the tank we might be. no jobs for us we dont pay taxes if we dont pay taxes what happens. Government jobs dont count for this very reason. The less government jobs the more private jobs will come open.

 

[Umaro]

People pay the taxes. and this is a state government not the FEDERAL government. And teachers and firefighters etc. are paid for by us so it doesnt go into the economy except when they spend there money on goods made by private industry.

I don't follow your reasoning. I presume you mean to say that a public teacher doesn't generate wealth, but a private one does? Both are paid for by you, and both spend that money in the economy. You can say its inefficient or that everyone shouldn't have to pay into it, but if a private teacher generated wealth, then so does a public teacher.

 

[A2SG]

People pay the taxes. and this is a state government not the FEDERAL government.

Same difference. All governments: state, local or federal, are funded by tax dollars which they use to buy stuff, pay employees and fund programs.

And teachers and firefighters etc. are paid for by us so it doesnt go into the economy except when they spend there money on goods made by private industry.

Their paychecks go into the economy in exactly the same way an employee of a retail store or insurance company does. Teachers pay bills and buy groceries just like retail clerks do. I see no difference whatsoever.

Well for one corporations dont make money unless they provide a product for the consumer which isnt made except when they HIRE some one to make it.

Well sure. Except, of course, their manufacturing process is mostly automated. Or when its outsourced to some third world country, in which case the money is truly removed from the US economy.

the whole point of business is to make wealth. how much they make and keep is there business and if you dont like it dont work for them or buy there product.

Naturally. Except, of course, when large corporations pay ZERO taxes and, instead, get government subsidies that do nothing other than serve to beef up their profits. That money, which contributes to the wealth of individuals CEOs and isn't put back into the economy, is actually money taken out of the system and does nothing to aid our economy.

YES there are crooks involved in some of them. but it is our due diligents to stay away from them so they cannot take our money. if they have no way of getting the money the go away.

The crooks, as you call them, aren't stealing, they're given the money by the government directly. Our tax dollars at work.

people build those planes and houses do they not.

How does that make it a wiser investment than paying teachers, cops and fire fighters?

Which is creating jobs and NOT costing Us tax payers more money.

First of all, paying for teachers, police officers and fire fighters also creates jobs. And second, are you saying the cost of paying teachers, police officers, fire fighters, etc. isn't a wise investment?

And these again are state governments which the federal government has extorted.

The question is how tax money that is used to pay workers is taken out of the economy. Whether we're talking state employees like teachers or federal employees like mail carriers or secretaries makes no difference.

STATE government is being hijacked by the federal government an awful lot of federal laws are actually unconstitutional because they are for the state to decide not the federal government.

Different issue. If you want to debate the constitutionality of any federal program, feel free to start a new thread and do so.

These Jobs are paid by the people. money doesnt grow on trees.

The people also pay for private sector jobs by buying products or services. In both cases, private sector or public, when that money is put back into the economy in the form of paychecks. What I fail to see is how some can say that money is taken out of the economy when done by government, but not when done by industry. Care to address that question?

We are ignorant we voted in obama, we are being robbed taxed

Um...did you not pay taxes before January 20, 2008? I did.

for things that are wast-full Not on fire yet but if the economy goes to the tank we might be. no jobs for us we dont pay taxes if we dont pay taxes what happens. Government jobs dont count for this very reason.

I'm sorry...could you restate that, I didn't understand. Why don't government employees contribute to the economy?

The less government jobs the more private jobs will come open.

Governments, especially at the state level, have been slashing jobs left and right, and the private sector hasn't compensated equally. After a decade of private sector job losses, there has been some small private sector job growth lately, but nowhere near the level of job losses from the private sector or the private sector.

-- A2SG, so your reasoning seems a little questionable there.....

 

[BondiHarry]

A2SG, do you understand the difference between a free market economy and a command, state managed economy? Or the difference between between someone spending their own money and someone spending someone elses money? The nature of your questions suggests in your last response you do not.

 

[A2SG]

A2SG, do you understand the difference between a free market economy and a command, state managed economy? Or the difference between between someone spending their own money and someone spending someone elses money? The nature of your questions suggests in your last response you do not.

Then why don't you explain it? You could start by explaining how a teacher's salary doesn't contribute to the economy while an insurance company secretary's does.

-- A2SG, cuz I don't get that one....

 

[BondiHarry]

Then why don't you explain it? You could start by explaining how a teacher's salary doesn't contribute to the economy while an insurance company secretary's does.

-- A2SG, cuz I don't get that one....

Hmmm, explain the difference between a consumer demand and an entrepeneur stepping in to meet that demand with his own money (or the money of investors who think the entrepeneur is worth the risk of their own capital) AND a government taking money out of the economy via taxation and creating a position that may not have a market demand but none-the-less some government politician/bureaucrat/commissar thinks is a good idea? In the former is the expectation of productive return and in the latter a return (ie profit) is often of little concern because, AFTERALL, you don't have to be efficient or productive when all you have to do to fund your government created position is take more money from the tax payers. It is the difference between freedom and all it entails and coercion and all it entails.

 

[Umaro]

Hmmm, explain the difference between a consumer demand and an entrepeneur stepping in to meet that demand with his own money (or the money of investors who think the entrepeneur is worth the risk of their own capital) AND a government taking money out of the economy via taxation and creating a position that may not have a market demand but none-the-less some government politician/bureaucrat/commissar thinks is a good idea? In the former is the expectation of productive return and in the latter a return (ie profit) is often of little concern because, AFTERALL, you don't have to be efficient or productive when all you have to do to fund your government created position is take more money from the tax payers. It is the difference between freedom and all it entails and coercion and all it entails.

Theres no market demand for teachers? Then why do class sizes keep going up?

I'm also still waiting for an answer here. http://www.christianforums.com/t7621819-14/#post59546499

 

[A2SG]

Hmmm, explain the difference between a consumer demand and an entrepeneur stepping in to meet that demand with his own money (or the money of investors who think the entrepeneur is worth the risk of their own capital) AND a government taking money out of the economy via taxation

How is it "out of the economy"? Just like with private industry, money goes in, and it goes out again. A teacher spends his paycheck the same way an insurance company secretary does, am I correct?

What's the difference?

and creating a position that may not have a market demand

Um, there is no demand for teachers, police officers or fire fighters? You think there's a demand for ignorance, crime and fires?

but none-the-less some government politician/bureaucrat/commissar thinks is a good idea?

Hmmm....are you trying to suggest an argument against teachers, police officers or fire fighters???? Go right ahead, this oughtta be good!

In the former is the expectation of productive return and in the latter a return (ie profit) is often of little concern

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????

Are you serious? Do you seriously consider the "return" on the work done by teachers, police officers or fire fighters to be "of little concern"?????

Come back to me the next time you've been robbed or your house has been on fire.

because, AFTERALL, you don't have to be efficient or productive when all you have to do to fund your government created position is take more money from the tax payers.

I wasn't taking about the efficiency of government employees, but nice attempt to change the subject. For the record, though, I'd stack the efficiency of the average teacher, police officer or fire fighter against the efficiency of the average private sector employee anytime.

But, again, not the subject here.

It is the difference between freedom and all it entails and coercion and all it entails.

Still not answering my question.

"You could start by explaining how a teacher's salary doesn't contribute to the economy while an insurance company secretary's does."

Feel free to address that one at any time.

-- A2SG, not that this trip into libertarian utopia rant-land isn't a nice fantasy adventure and all that.....