Got a question about Baptism

[Goceman86]

So I was attending a Methodist church early in my christian life and did get baptized by them but it was more of just a verbal confession infroont of the congregation.

so my question is that now i am a AG seminary student and planing on serving in AG church. do i need to get water baptism or no?

 

[HolyTrinity]

Yes. Water baptism in a methodist church is one thing, but it's much different than the baptism of the holy spirit that you'll get in a pentecostal church. The only thing that scares me is that some pentecostal churches do believe that to prove the baptism was of the holy ghost, you'll speak in tongues after. I've never spake in tongues so it intimidates me to get baptized in a pentecostal church.

 

[Goceman86]

im the same as you never got the gift of Tongues. and like you i am curious if i should get water baptism.

 

[Randy_R]

Spend time praying about it. It sounds like the baptism in the Methodist Church was pouring or sprinkling(?), so are your questions about being re-baptized based on having been baptized with a mode other than immersion, or is it a desire to be baptized by the same denomination you will be serving in? Spend time talking with Jesus about it, I'm sure He'll let you know one way or the other as well as helping you to understand why it seems important to you now.

 

[Goceman86]

Spend time praying about it. It sounds like the baptism in the Methodist Church was pouring or sprinkling(?), so are your questions about being re-baptized based on having been baptized with a mode other than immersion, or is it a desire to be baptized by the same denomination you will be serving in? Spend time talking with Jesus about it, I'm sure He'll let you know one way or the other as well as helping you to understand why it seems important to you now.

you nailed it on the head i want to be baptized in the denomination i will be serving in and since it wasnt immersion i was curious what the AG organization will say when i try to get ordained

 

[stormdancer0]

There's nothing wrong with getting baptized again. I was baptized as a teenager, and again when I was 37. There was no doubt that it was the right thing to do. If I ever make it to Israel, I hope to be baptized in the Jordan River.

 

[Big Drew]

So I was attending a Methodist church early in my christian life and did get baptized by them but it was more of just a verbal confession infroont of the congregation.

so my question is that now i am a AG seminary student and planing on serving in AG church. do i need to get water baptism or no?

I was baptized as a child in the Episcopal church...but I wasn't born again until I was 19, in a Pentecostal church...after getting saved, and reading the scriptures, I realized that my first baptism didn't count...I was just getting wet, so, I decided I would be baptized again...as far as what others are saying about the baptism of the Holy Spirit...that doesn't necessarily come at your water baptism...in my experience, and what I've witnessed, these are usually two separate events.

 

[MPaul]

Baptism signifies union with Christ in death and resurrection and cleansing of sin.

Romans 6:3-8
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

I Corinthains 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

When a person is baptized by immersion, he/she symbolically experiences burial and resurrection and cleansing. I don't see how sprinkling represents that experience.

The concept of sprinkling arose in the Catholic church. What is significant to Catholics is that a priest performs the rite – and thereby, they believe, some special grace is conferred on the one baptized by the priest. Sprinkling makes it easier for him to do the rite, and the authority of the RCC is supposed to be greater than what the Bible says anyway.

However, in your first post, it seems you may not have even been sprinkled, just spoken over on what used to be said at sprinklings. In my opinion, you have not been baptized yet.

 

[lilmissmontana]

So I was attending a Methodist church early in my christian life and did get baptized by them but it was more of just a verbal confession infroont of the congregation.

so my question is that now i am a AG seminary student and planing on serving in AG church. do i need to get water baptism or no?[/quote]

im the same as you never got the gift of Tongues. and like you i am curious if i should get water baptism.[/quote]

If I ever make it to Israel, I hope to be baptized in the Jordan River.

I was baptized as a child ... I was around ten or so. I remember it felt important and that I loved Jesus. In 2005 ... many, many years later I was water baptized. This time I understood the whole entirety of what was taking place ... or so I thought. Very soon after I was changed forever. I did not know that would happen. It wasn't until several years later that I even knew about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Lord ntroduced me to the Holy Spirit and all I can say is WOW! ... and that's quite inadequate. I don't speak in tongues and am quite alright with it. There are other gifts, as well. It never ocurred to me to question if I should or not. I wanted to ... and I'm soooooooo glad I did. Must we? ... I make no calls there ... but I sure would recommend it.

stormy ... don't forget to stop and pick me up on the way ... that would be awesome!

 

[katieM]

Jesus Christ tells us in John 3:5 that salvation is impossible without the sacrament of baptism, "Amen, Amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[MPaul]

Jesus Christ tells us in John 3:5 that salvation is impossible without the sacrament of baptism, "Amen, Amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

John 3:5 –
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

John 3:5 does not have the word baptism in it. And the word sacrament is not found in the bible. A sacrament is the pledge of allegiance that a Roman soldier said to the Empire.

In ancient times people believed the Roman Empire was divine, and the Roman Catholic Church took over those divine aspects of the Empire and incorporated them into the church, which they call Holy Tradition – such as the Pope being a representation of the divine, the Pontificus Maximus, which were attributed to the Emperor, or such as Latin being the language of the RCC, or the organizational structure being that of the Empire, or the leader of the RCC living in a palace and having a court of nobility. Actually, the divine representation of the emperor was adopted from Greek culture, as was the idea that some art is given to the world from a divine source and brings a person closer to heaven.... or the concept of the significance of ritual in religion, which eventually was represented by the word sacrament.

As the RCC was so sacramental, the fact that the word or concept did not exist in the bible became a problem – so Jerome added it to the Latin Vulgate, changing the word mystery to sacrament in I Timothy 3:36. Then, the Pope declared the Latin Vulgate was the inspired word of God – problem solved. But the Protestants haven't added the word to the bible yet, and Pentecostals are Protestants.

I Timothy 3:16 –
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 3:5 refers our rebirth through the Word of God under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:25-27 –
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Ezekiel 36:24-26 –
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Sorry, the Pope got it wrong again.

 

[Randy_R]

John 3:5 –
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

John 3:5 does not have the word baptism in it. And the word sacrament is not found in the bible.

Actually, the early church was almost universal in interpreting Jn 3:5 as referring to baptism. As a matter of fact, it was one of the main texts used during baptismal services.

For hundreds of years, people have fought over the the meaning of baptism. Most people view it either as a sacrament with the idea that no baptism, no salvation and the other side seems to take the view that it's nothing more than a nice way to testify of your faith and that other than that it's not that important.

I have another way of looking at it. Baptism in the first and second century church had the same function that the sinners prayer has today. You may know people who have been Christians their whole life and can't remember ever receiving Christ or praying the sinner's prayer because they have believed for as long as they can remember. Most people wouldn't say that they are not Christians because they never prayed the sinners prayer. But on the other hand most of the people we know who are Christians probably received Christ through means of the sinners prayer. two thousand years ago the church used baptism not the sinners prayer as the means through which people received Christ.

Baptism was created for people, not people for baptism. God instituted baptism as a great way to picture receiving Christ, being buried and raised with Christ into new life in a way that shows that we are also becoming part of the Body of Christ in the church. Does that mean that people are not saved if have been raised with a lesser view of baptism and have never received baptism? I can't say that. Jesus said you will know them by their fruit, and there are lots of people who have not been baptized who show by their lives that they have new life. But, since baptism is clearly commanded of every Christian, anyone who doesn't receive baptism is living in open disobedience against God and therefore SHOULD be baptized.

 

[MPaul]

Actually, the early church was almost universal in interpreting Jn 3:5 as referring to baptism. As a matter of fact, it was one of the main texts used during baptismal services.

This is an argument commonly put forward by Catholics to defend their view on baptism. There are almost no writings at all from the early church. Preserved writings come centuries later and are full of blatantly mistaken ideas on theology and bible interpretation. There is no real evidence to support the view that John 3:15 was universally interpreted as applying to baptism in the early centuries. It is assumption and it violates sound principles of language and bible interpretation.

Jesus promised the thief on the cross that he would go to heaven that day – and the thief was not baptized, Luke 23:39-43. So was Jesus lying? Or did the Holy Spirit lie when he wrote John 3:15? I do not think so in either case.

(The Didache could be dated early, but this is disputed. It does not quote John 3:15 on baptism. Its significance is questionable as it is a single document and very brief, and it surely cannot be held as having any real authority in bible interpretation. )

The position I set out in post #8 is the most common Protestant position on the meaning of baptism and entirely consistent with the doctrine maintained by the Assembly of God.

 

[Randy_R]

This is an argument commonly put forward by Catholics to defend their view on baptism. There are almost no writings at all from the early church. Preserved writings come centuries later and are full of blatantly mistaken ideas on theology and bible interpretation. There is no real evidence to support the view that John 3:15 was universally interpreted as applying to baptism in the early centuries. It is assumption and it violates sound principles of language and bible interpretation.

Jesus promised the thief on the cross that he would go to heaven that day – and the thief was not baptized, Luke 23:39-43. So was Jesus lying? Or did the Holy Spirit lie when he wrote John 3:15? I do not think so in either case.

(The Didache could be dated early, but this is disputed. It does not quote John 3:15 on baptism. Its significance is questionable as it is a single document and very brief, and it surely cannot be held as having any real authority in bible interpretation. )

The position I set out in post #8 is the most common Protestant position on the meaning of baptism and entirely consistent with the doctrine maintained by the Assembly of God.

Sadly after several hundred years of contention about the meaning of baptism, it's almost impossible for people to see it as other than either sacramental or merely a confession of a salvation already received. I still hold that it is and has been a wonderful means of receiving Christ. Receiving baptism months or years after you become a believer is like having a sinners prayer meeting where everyone who has become a believer over the last year can come forward to pray the sinners prayer, it looses it's meaning.

When someone wants to become a Christian, if they receive Christ through baptism they have a wonderful picture of being buried to the past life into a new life that is missed when people are lead through a sinners prayer to receive Christ.

Baptism doesn't save any more than praying a prayer does. It's the faith and repentance that produce that baptism or prayer that count. The difference is that the Biblical way to respond to repentance and faith and receive Christ is baptism.

On the Day of Pentecost, when the crowd said "sirs what shall we do?", Peter didn't say "everyone bow your heads. Okay, with all heads bowed and all eyes closed repeat this prayer after me...."

Two notes though:

Since I don't claim to teach baptismal regeneration, I'm not sure why you would bring up the argument of the thief on the cross. (Besides, if he hadn't died on the cross, he would certainly have been one one the 3000 baptized on the day of Pentecost when they believed based on Peters sermon.)

Second the reference is Jn 3:5 not Jn 3:15.

 

[MPaul]

Randy,

It's not impossible to see baptism as something other than sacramental or a salvation confession, because Christians rely on the bible, and they can see baptism the way Scripture does. And most Protestants see baptism according to the bible verses I set out in post #8. Many people come to Christ knowing nothing about the history of Christianity or bible interpretation, but they depend merely on what the bible says. Christians who are aware of past views can do the same thing... merely rely on what the bible says.

You may have your own view on baptism... and that is fine, as God gave us all freedom of conscience, but the concept of baptism should be based on the best bible interpretation.

I brought up the thief on the cross, as my post you responded to was a response to a Catholic position. So the three posts established a context and a train of thought. Part of that context was the assertion that baptism is necessary for salvation.

In my responses I referred to John 3:5, but in one response, I mistyped the verse as John 3:15. I could go back and make the changes in editing but I think it is obvious by context what I meant.

 

[prass1]

So I was attending a Methodist church early in my christian life and did get baptized by them but it was more of just a verbal confession infroont of the congregation.

so my question is that now i am a AG seminary student and planing on serving in AG church. do i need to get water baptism or no?

Water baptism, alone, is only a traditional ritual. It does not bring salvation. Salvation is an issue of the spirit. It is your spiritual acceptance, along with verbal or mental commitment of Jesus as your Lord and Savior that brings about salvation.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Water baptism, alone, is only a traditional ritual. It does not bring salvation. Salvation is an issue of the spirit. It is your spiritual acceptance, along with verbal or mental commitment of Jesus as your Lord and Savior that brings about salvation.

I agree with this post most, I guess. Particularily the part about verbal and mental commitment ... as to serving him with your mind and heart ... as opposed to who else one might serve ... like the beast ... Revelation 14:1 ... And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and four thousand, having his father's name written in their foreheads.

there is another view of John 3:15 ... some believe it means born through the womb (water) and filled with the Holy Spirit ... I didn't come to argue about it ... just pointing it out that not all believe this has to do with water baptism ...

and for sure it does NOT bring salvation ... John 3:16-21 never says baptism is a requirement ... it says believing in Christ is the requirement ... and it says everlasting life ... it doesn't say somewhere that will change and then you'll have to be baptised to be saved ...

John 3:17 ... but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[stormdancer0]

Yes, that's how I've always interpreted John 3:5. "Born of water" is natural birth, and "Born of the Spirit" is spiritual re-birth.

I believe that baptism is fulfillment of the command to confess our belief of Christ to others. I think it has immense spiritual meaning, and that Jesus commanded us to be baptized when we are saved. But I do not see where it could possibly be a requirement for salvation. What about deathbed confessions. If a person is too sick to be baptized, are they hopelessly lost, despite a true repentance and confession of Christ?

Repentance and belief - these are the only requirements. There are many things we SHOULD do, and baptism is one of those. But it's not required for entrance into heaven.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Yes, that's how I've always interpreted John 3:5. "Born of water" is natural birth, and "Born of the Spirit" is spiritual re-birth.

I believe that baptism is fulfillment of the command to confess our belief of Christ to others. I think it has immense spiritual meaning, and that Jesus commanded us to be baptized when we are saved. But I do not see where it could possibly be a requirement for salvation. What about deathbed confessions. If a person is too sick to be baptized, are they hopelessly lost, despite a true repentance and confession of Christ?

Repentance and belief - these are the only requirements. There are many things we SHOULD do, and baptism is one of those. But it's not required for entrance into heaven.

and that's exactly, exactly, exactly what I believe ... woohoo! unity of mind ...

 

[kkdaniela]

Truthfully I am a Pentecostal. God manifestation through the Holy Spirit is beautiful. I am 16 years old. I have been baptized in water and by the Holy Spirit. He has given me the gift of speaking in tongues and other gifts. If truly you want to discover more don't ever hold back the Holy Spirit. When I was 7 I decided to see what my parents were feeling so I started praying, and he works in mysterious ways. One must be open to him to let him work upon someone. But baptism in water is a purification and connection with God.