GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

[BobRyan]

Bob,
I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath,
..
Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?

Please don’t refer to the law of Moses, for instruction in the Sabbath

Can you show us that the Ten Commandments are deleted in the NT?
Can you show us that the NT authors told us to "ignore scripture"?
Can you show us the logic in asking to "learn about the Sabbath" while insisting on ignoring any scripture that mentions it?

In Matthew 22 Christ refers to the LAW of Moses
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Mark 7:6-13 "Moses said" = "Word of God" = "Commandment of God" according to Christ.

Was Jesus wrong?

Speaking of the OT - Paul says "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 - was Paul wrong

Jesus said
Matthew 19
if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not steal,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Exodus 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Exodus 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

All of it from "The Law of Moses"
Was Jesus wrong?
Is Jesus' teaching to be "rejecting" by anyone wanting to "learn about the Sabbath"??

Jesus shows that acceptance of the foundation-command in Lev 19:18 regarding man's duty to his neighbor -- did not "delete" the commandments in the TEN - that are based on it.

The commandments are not deleted.

The commandments were around long before Moses and kept by Abraham, 430years before the law of Moses was added

True. Which is yet another reason why "taking God's name in vain" was a sin before Sinai and is still a sin to this very day.

"Sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 by definition.

Eph 6:2 - the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of Ten.

 

[JLB777]

Why do you need to sacrifice a goat? We are in the NEW COVENANT now not the OLD. Please read your bible.

The SHADOWS are fulfilled in Christ...

Scriptures part 1

Scriptures part 2
Scriptures part 3

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Just show us the scriptures from the New Testament that gives examples of the Church meeting on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

True. Which is yet another reason why "taking God's name in vain" was a sin before Sinai and is till a sin to this very day.

I couldn’t agree more.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Just show us the scriptures from the New Testament that gives examples of the Church meeting on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.
JLB

As I said in the first post your not here to learn about the Sabbath at all are you?

I am happy however to answer your question from your first post with scripture if you can tell me where it says in the NT testament that God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?

Are you going to answer the question or ignore it like you have done every other time we have had a chat in the past?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[JLB777]

Can you show us that the Ten Commandments are deleted in the NT?
Can you show us that the NT authors told us to "ignore scripture"?
Can you show us the logic in asking to "learn about the Sabbath" while insisting on ignoring any scripture that mentions it?

In Matthew 22 Christ refers to the LAW of Moses
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Mark 7:6-13 "Moses said" = "Word of God" = "Commandment of God" according to Christ.

Was Jesus wrong?

Speaking of the OT - Paul says "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 - was Paul wrong

Jesus said
Matthew 19
if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not steal,’ Exodus 20
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Exodus 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Exodus 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

All of it from "The Law of Moses"
Was Jesus wrong?
Is Jesus' teaching to be "rejecting" by anyone wanting to "learn about the Sabbath"??

Jesus shows that acceptance of the foundation-command in Lev 19:18 regarding man's duty to his neighbor -- did not "delete" the commandments in the TEN - that are based on it.



True. Which is yet another reason why "taking God's name in vain" was a sin before Sinai and is till a sin to this very day.

"Sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 by definition.

Eph 6:2 - the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of Ten.

The commandments are not deleted.

The commandments were around long before Moses and kept by Abraham, 430years before the law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.


And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


The Church, the called out ones, the ecclesia, The Lord’s separate people, His holy nation began with Abraham, and from him and His descendants the Lord came and instituted the new “refreshed” covenant.

We are called children of Abraham, through faith in Jesus Christ.

The commandments apply to us today.

Those who claim to know Him (have eternal life) but do not keep His commandments are liars.


Keeping His commandments is how we know that we know Him, and love Him, and love our neigbor.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-5


When the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until Jesus came, some ordinances were added as well, such as food laws, ceremonial laws, feast days, and Sabbath requirements, of which it was required to put to death those who so much as gathered kindling to make a fire of the Sabbath.

Of course, The Church does not put to death people who gather sticks to build a fire on the Sabbath, today under the New Covenant.

Can you tell me why?



JLB

 

[BobRyan]

When the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until Jesus came, some ordinances were added as well, such as food laws, ceremonial laws, feast days, and Sabbath requirements, of which it was required to put to death those who so much as gathered kindling to make a fire of the Sabbath.

Of course, The Church does not put to death people who gather sticks to build a fire on the Sabbath, today under the New Covenant.

Can you tell me why?
JLB

Because civil penalties under the theocracy of Israel cease when that theocracy ends. Civil penalties were only valid in that context of the theocracy.

We do not kill people for coveting or making idols or worshiping false gods or dishonor of parents or taking God's name in vain.

A fact that even the pro-Sunday non-7th-day-Sabbath Christian groups freely admit.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

In Exodus 20 - it is "God speaking" not Moses.
In Exodus 20:8-11 the Sabbath Commandment is not stated by God as "Because Moses said... ". Rather God said in Exodus 20:11 that the Sabbath was already holy and set apart for the Genesis 2:1-3 reasons "alone".

Christ affirms the Sabbath made and mankind made in Genesis this way 'the Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" speaking of the "making" of BOTH in Genesis.

Thus in Isaiah 66:23 ALL mankind keeping the Sabbath and not "just Jews" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth. As I have repeatedly pointed out.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The commandments are not deleted.

The commandments were around long before Moses and kept by Abraham, 430years before the law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.


And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


The Church, the called out ones, the ecclesia, The Lord’s separate people, His holy nation began with Abraham, and from him and His descendants the Lord came and instituted the new “refreshed” covenant.

We are called children of Abraham, through faith in Jesus Christ.

The commandments apply to us today.

Those who claim to know Him (have eternal life) but do not keep His commandments are liars.


Keeping His commandments is how we know that we know Him, and love Him, and love our neigbor.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-5


When the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until Jesus came, some ordinances were added as well, such as food laws, ceremonial laws, feast days, and Sabbath requirements, of which it was required to put to death those who so much as gathered kindling to make a fire of the Sabbath.

Of course, The Church does not put to death people who gather sticks to build a fire on the Sabbath, today under the New Covenant.

Can you tell me why?


JLB

So do you agree there is no scripture in the NT that says God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?

 

[JLB777]

As I said in the first post your not here to learn about the Sabbath at all are you?

I am happy however to answer your question from your first post with scripture if you can tell me where it says in the NT testament that God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?

Who said the Sabbath was abolished?

Man needs to rest from his work, during the week.


Under the law, some strict guidelines were instituted, whereby the violate was put to death.

Now under the New Covenant we no longer have those ordinances.



I have asked you to provide scripture from the New Testament that shows us the Church gathered on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.


Please do so we can discuss them.

 

[JLB777]

Because civil laws under the theocracy of Israel cease when that theocracy ends. Civil penalties were only valid in that context.

A fact that even the pro-Sunday non-7th-day-Sabbath Christian groups freely admit.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Thanks for your opinion Bob.


Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Who said the Sabbath was abolished?

Man needs to rest from his work, during the week.


Under the law, some strict guidelines were instituted, whereby the violate was put to death.

Now under the New Covenant we no longer have those ordinances.



I have asked you to provide scripture from the New Testament that shows us the Church gathered on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.


Please do so we can discuss them.

So you agree that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct? Just want to make sure before proceeding...

 

[Bob S]

Now Bob will this stand the test of God's WORD?

Let's compare what you are saying here according to the scriptures.

Your teaching is the 1 JOHN 3:4 is not talking about the 10 Commandments right?

This connects to your other teaching that God's 10 Commandments have been ABOLISHED as you teach from 2 COR 3, correct?.

We have looked at 2 COR 3 already in post # 151 linked here, so let's look at your new claim that 1 JOHN 3 is not saying SIN is breaking God's 10 Commandments.

To answer this question let's look at the CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE COPNTEXT and other scriptures from the WORD of GOD that define what SIN is.

WHAT IS SIN?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN

You are so clever LGW, but not so much that you can convince me. I have been where you trod and know just enough to not want to be there again.

You have taken a little dab here and a little dab there and think we will fall for it as being God's Word to Christians. You took a little dab from 1JN3, I took the whole meaning. Funny that you would not respond to the whole meaning of John's real meaning of verse 3. That shows that you are not really sincere in learning the real truth. John does explain what laws we are to keep and it was not the 10 commandments. So sorry you refuse to learn the truth.

You quote James 2 in most of your posts claiming that he is telling us to observe the 10. Well that is not true LGW James tells us we are doing well if we keep the Royal law of love. He is not telling us to observe the 10 commandments. Here read it for yourself.
8 The royal law is found in Scripture. It says, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” (Leviticus 19:18) If you really keep this law, you are doing what is right. 9 But you sin if you don’t treat everyone the same. The law judges you because you have broken it. 10 Suppose you keep the whole law but trip over just one part of it. Then you are guilty of breaking all of it. 11 God said, “Do not commit adultery.” (Exodus 20:14; Deuteronomy 5:18) He also said, “Do not commit murder.” (Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17) Suppose you don’t commit adultery but do commit murder. Then you have broken the law.

12 Speak and act like people who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. 13 Those who have not shown mercy will not receive mercy when they are judged. To show mercy is better than to judge.

The whole law is not just the 10 commandments, it is the 613 laws of the defunct Sinai covenant.

All your "linking" is for naught when two of your links are already broken. Oh yes, your response will be just the same as always because you refuse to see the real light and instead follow the teachings of the false prophet's writings. Too bad.

 

[JLB777]

So you agree that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct? Just want to make sure before proceeding...

Please stop stalling by making up lies about what I said.

I never said we are commanded to worship Jesus on Sunday.



Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.



JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please stop stalling by making up lies about what I said.

I never said we are commanded to worship Jesus on Sunday.

Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

JLB

I am not stalling JBL. What lies are you claiming I have said about you? I have only posted your direct quotes. Just the same as I can post the links to our previous discussions. Happy to do so if you wish?

So you agree with the statement that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct?

 

[BobRyan]

Once again, if we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on a Sunday, what has that got to do with any other day?

Nothing at all - as long as "you don't make it relate to any other day".

But if you were to say "I went to a worship service on Sunday morning - so now I can take God's name in vain or break the Sabbath commandment" then it is "you" who are tying your worship service to the commandments and an argument for breaking one.

 

[JLB777]

I am not stalling JBL. What lies are you claiming I have said about you? I have only posted your direct quotes. Just the same as I can post the links to our previous discussions. Happy to do so if you wish?

So you agree with the statement that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct?

Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

 

[JLB777]

Nothing at all - as long as "you don't make it relate to any other day".

But if you were to say "I went to a worship service on Sunday morning - so now I can take God's name in vain or break the Sabbath commandment" then it is "you" who are tying your worship service to the commandments and an argument for breaking one.

Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

 

[Marco70]

Absolutely brother.

And that’s all it is the man made traditions of men.


JLB

Yes, there is not one verse of scripture in the entire NT/NC that states you must observe a seventh day sabbath

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Now all that is left is for you to provide scripture from the NT that shows us examples of the Church gathering to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

Are you going to answer the question so we can proceed? I am still waiting.

So you agree with the statement that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct?

YES/NO

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok have to go this is taking too long and it's late my time. I will be back latter bb for now

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[JLB777]

Are you going to answer the question so we can proceed? I am still waiting.

So you agree with the statement that there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY, correct?

YES/NO

The answer again is I never said there was any such commandment from God to worship Jesus on Sunday or on Saturday.

If you believe that we are commanded by God to worship Jesus on Saturday, the please provide the scriptures that instruct us to do this.

The burden of proof is on you, since you are the one claiming that we are commanded to worship Jesus on Saturday or be in violation of His commandment.


For a person to violate God’s commandment, there first must be a commandment that commands us to worship Jesus on Saturday.


Now it’s up to you, to substantiate your claim, that we are commanded to worship Jesus on Saturday, by providing the scriptures that teach this doctrine.


If you can not provide any scriptures that say we are commanded to worship Jesus on Saturday, the Sabbath, then you are guilty of promoting a man made doctrine.



JLB