GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

LoveGodsWord

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How often to you sacrifice a goat?

Why do you need to sacrifice a goat? We are in the NEW COVENANT now not the OLD. Please read your bible.

The SHADOWS are fulfilled in Christ...

Scriptures part 1

Scriptures part 2

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...from-gods-word.8021854/page-132#post-72589133

Scriptures part 3

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Surely you believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast?

Hello David,

Worshipping God on Sunday or any day is not the problem. We should worship God everyday of the week. :)

The problem is God's 4th Commandment says that the SEVENTH DAY of the week is a HOLY DAY. On this day NO WORK is to be done as it is a memorial of creation and dedicated to the creator. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but not to do your own work. No shopping, buying and selling, busiess or uneccessary domestic work that can be done on any other day of the Week.

If you break the 4th Commandment just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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klutedavid

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Hello David,

Worshipping God on Sunday or any day is not the problem. We should worship God everyday of the week. :)

The problem is God's 4th Commandment says that the SEVENTH DAY of the week is a HOLY DAY. On this day NO WORK is to be done as it is a memorial of creation and dedicated to the creator. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but not to do your own work. No shopping, buying and selling, busiess or uneccessary domestic work that can be done on any other day of the Week.

If you break the 4th Commandment just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
Once again, if we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on a Sunday, what has that got to do with any other day?

You need to explain why you think that, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday, is a sin.

The reason I ask this is because, you believe that the celebration of the resurrection on Sunday is a sin, i.e., the mark of the beast.
You said.
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God.
I believe that what you wrote is incorrect.

The Sunday celebration is a first day celebration that has nothing to do with any other day of the week. I do not see any connection between the first day celebration and the breaking of the commandments!

The seventh day is a rest day, so what?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Once again, if we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on a Sunday, what has that got to do with any other day?

You need to explain why you think that, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday, is a sin.

The reason I ask this is because, you believe that the celebration of the resurrection on Sunday is a sin, i.e., the mark of the beast.
You said.

I believe that what you wrote is incorrect.

The Sunday celebration is a first day celebration that has nothing to do with any other day of the week. I do not see any connection between the first day celebration and the breaking of the commandments!

The seventh day is a rest day, so what?

Hello David,

You pretty much just ignored everything posted to you :(

Worshipping God on Sunday or any day is not the problem. We should worship God everyday of the week.

The problem is God's 4th Commandment says that the SEVENTH DAY of the week is a HOLY DAY. On this day NO WORK is to be done as it is a memorial of creation and dedicated to the creator.

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but not to do your own work. No shopping, buying and selling, busiess or uneccessary domestic work that can be done on any other day of the Week.

If you break the 4th Commandment just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin. by working on it and ignoring it, just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin.

GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day. [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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BNR32FAN

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Why do you need to sacrifice a goat? We are in the NEW COVENANT now not the OLD. Please read your bible.

The SHADOWS are fulfilled in Christ...

Scriptures part 1

Scriptures part 2

Scriptures part 3

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

“Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval. In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead. So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:1-10
 
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Bob S

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Sabbath thumpers keep using 1Jn 3:4 telling us that not keeping the 10 commandments is sin. That is not what the verse is telling us. It is telling us if we break God's law we are sinning.

4 The person who keeps on sinning is guilty of not obeying the Law of God. For sin is breaking the Law of God. God's law could be any of the laws He has given to man. Telling us it is the 10 commandments could be far from the truth. Well John sure didn't want us to be guessing what he means by using the term God's law. He certainly didn't want us to think it was the Sinai covenant which Jesus fulfilled at the Cross. That covenant would put man back under the 613 laws that were contained in the covenant. So what did John write to tell us what he means in verse 4. Did he tell us to keep the special days of the Sinai covenant which would include the weekly Sabbath? Well, I can tell you I couldn't find anything that would indicate that he did. The same with eating and tithing. I would hope that each of you would read the entire chapter because what John tells us puts to rest the Sabbath of the old covenant. LGW even admits we are not subject to the Sinai covenant (old). In verse 19 we read "19 This is how we know we are Christians." Verse 22 says "22 We will receive from Him whatever we ask if we obey Him and do what He wants." Then verse 23, and we are getting close to what God expects us to do, to keep from sinning and tells us what verse 4 means: "23 This is what He said we must do:" "Put your trust in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love each other. Christ told us to do this. 24 The person who obeys Christ lives by the help of God and God lives in him. We know He lives in us by the Holy Spirit He has given us."

Again, we see that Christians are not subject to what some on this forum tell us is escentual to gain eternal life. They just are not telling us the truth. We can either trust Bob Ryan, LGW or the word of God found right here in 1Jn 3.

5 You know that Christ came to take away our sins. There is no sin in Him. 6 The person who lives by the help of Christ does not keep on sinning. The person who keeps on sinning has not seen Him or has not known Him. 7 My children, let no one lead you in the wrong way. The man who does what is right, is right with God in the same way as Christ is right with God. 8 The person who keeps on sinning belongs to the devil. The devil has sinned from the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No person who has become a child of God keeps on sinning. This is because the Holy Spirit is in him. He cannot keep on sinning because God is his Father. 10 This is the way you can know who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil. The person who does not keep on doing what is right and does not love his brother does not belong to God. 11 This is what you have heard from the beginning, that we should love each other. 12 Do not be like Cain. He was a child of the devil and killed his brother. Why did he kill him? It was because he did what was sinful and his brother did what was right.

13 Do not be surprised if the world hates you, Christian brothers. 14 We know we have passed from death into life. We know this because we love the Christians. The person who does not love has not passed from death into life. 15 A man who hates his brother is a killer in his heart. You know that life which lasts forever is not in one who kills.

16 We know what love is because Christ gave His life for us. We should give our lives for our brothers. 17 What if a person has enough money to live on and sees his brother in need of food and clothing? If he does not help him, how can the love of God be in him? 18 My children, let us not love with words or in talk only. Let us love by what we do and in truth. 19 This is how we know we are Christians. It will give our heart comfort for sure when we stand before Him. 20 Our heart may say that we have done wrong. But remember, God is greater than our heart. He knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our heart does not say that we are wrong, we will have no fear as we stand before Him. 22 We will receive from Him whatever we ask if we obey Him and do what He wants. 23 This is what He said we must do: Put your trust in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love each other. Christ told us to do this. 24 The person who obeys Christ lives by the help of God and God lives in him. We know He lives in us by the Holy Spirit He has given us.
 
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klutedavid

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Hello David,

You pretty much just ignored everything posted to you :(

Worshipping God on Sunday or any day is not the problem. We should worship God everyday of the week.

The problem is God's 4th Commandment says that the SEVENTH DAY of the week is a HOLY DAY. On this day NO WORK is to be done as it is a memorial of creation and dedicated to the creator.

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but not to do your own work. No shopping, buying and selling, busiess or uneccessary domestic work that can be done on any other day of the Week.

If you break the 4th Commandment just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin. by working on it and ignoring it, just like any other of the ten commandments you stand guilty before God of sin.

GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day. [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
Correction, I have not ignored anything you wrote. I read what you wrote.

Will you deny that people who celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday, have the mark of the beast?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Correction, I have not ignored anything you wrote. I read what you wrote.

Will you deny that people who celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday, have the mark of the beast?

Yes you read what was written in the post then ignored the post and the scriptures in them. Yes indeed I deny that those who celebrate Sunday have the "Mark of the Beast". The time is not yet and the scriptures of Revelation 13 have not yet been fulfilled.

It is the time for the 1st and 2nd Angel messages of Revelation 14 and a call for God's people to leave the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God.

It is time for God's people to leave the harlots of Babylon to whorship the father in Spirit and in truth (the WORD).

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am bound to the freedom in Christ Jesus, go figure ..

Indeed. Freedom is not a liscense to sin, it is salvation from sin.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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“Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval. In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead. So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.” Romans‬ ‭14:1-10

WHERE IN ROMANS 14 IS THE SABBATH?

ROMANS 14:1-15
[1],
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
[2], For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[3], Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[4], Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

[5], One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6], He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…...............

[6], He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

links to .....

ISAIAH 58:5 [5], Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?
is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

links to.....

LUKE 18:11 [11],
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…........

LUKE 18:12 [12], Twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted sometimes two days a week and also annually in the feasts of Lev 23.

[7], For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[8], For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[9], For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[10], But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[11], For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12], So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[13], Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14], I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean <ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy> of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean<ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy>, to him it is unclean.
[15]
, But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

v14 At the time meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1 CORINTHIANS 10:25 [25], Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles ; μάκελλον; makellon; mak'-el-lon Of Latin origin [macellum ]; a butcher's stall, meat market or provision shop: - shambles.

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by the thought of food being offered to idols. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15............

1. The chapter is talking about a number of related topics
2. Overall it is talking about not juding those who are weak in the faith in relation to food connected to days or days dedicated to the Lord and that is all it is talking about.
3. Food connected to days in usually in relation to the annual festivals or fasting connected to weekly or Holy days unto the Lord (Lev 16:29. Num 29:7; Issaiah 58:5; Luke 18:11-12).
4. There is no mention of the Sabbath or God's 4th commandment in this chapter or the entire book of Romans.
5. Romans 14 is not talking about ABOLISHING ANY DAYS but only talking about judging others in relation to food or fasting connected to days dedicated to the LORD and food offered to idols.
6. The Chapter is consistant with all the other writing of Paul in relation to the jewish annual holy days fulfilled in Christ (eg, Colossains 2; Ephesians 2; Galatains 4:10; Hebrews 9:9-15; 10:1-17).
7. Paul's topics is summarised in v17; For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

................

CONCLUSION: Where in ROMANS 14 is it talking about God's 4th Commandment or SABBTAH? It is very clear from reading the scriptures that this whole Chapter has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sabbath thumpers keep using 1Jn 3:4 telling us that not keeping the 10 commandments is sin. That is not what the verse is telling us. It is telling us if we break God's law we are sinning.

Now Bob will this stand the test of God's WORD?

Let's compare what you are saying here according to the scriptures.

Your teaching is the 1 JOHN 3:4 is not talking about the 10 Commandments right?

This connects to your other teaching that God's 10 Commandments have been ABOLISHED as you teach from 2 COR 3, correct?.

We have looked at 2 COR 3 already in post # 151 linked here, so let's look at your new claim that 1 JOHN 3 is not saying SIN is breaking God's 10 Commandments.

To answer this question let's look at the CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE COPNTEXT and other scriptures from the WORD of GOD that define what SIN is.

WHAT IS SIN?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN

links to...........

1 JOHN 3:4
[4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context shortly.

Links to...........

ROMANS 7:7
[7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to...

ROMANS 3:20
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

we also have...

ROMANS 14:23 [23], And he that doubts is damned if he eat, because he eats not of faith: for whatever is not of faith is SIN.

.....................

CONCLUSION: PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments. PAUL says it is GOD'S LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is in ROMANS 3:20 and 7:7

Sorry Bob, God's Word is in disagreement with you my friend.

God's WORD defines SIN as transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) or breaking God's 10 Commandments as well as UNBELIEF in God's WORD.

.....................

Now that we have a biblical definition of what sin is (breaking God's Commandments) and UNBELIEF, let's look at the CHAPTER CONTEXT of 1 JOHN 3 and connect the scriptures.

1 JOHN 3:3-15
[3], And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW.
[5], And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whosoever abides in him SIN <breaks God's LAW> not: whosoever SIN<breaks God's LAW> hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous <Psalms 119:172 All your commandments = RIGHTEOUSNESS>.
[8], He that commits SIN <breaks God's LAW> is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God DOES NOT commit SIN<breaks God's LAW>; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot SIN<breaks God's LAW>, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
[11], For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
[12], Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
[13], Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
[14], We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.
[15], Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Some key points..........

v4.
SIN = Breaking God's Commandments
v6. Those who knowingly break God's commandments do not know God
v7. Don't be DECEIVED only those who DO NOT break God's commandments are is RIGHTEOUS as HE IS RIGHTEOUS
v8. If you are living in a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you are following the DEVIL and not GOD (Acts 17:30-31; Heb 10:26:27)
v9. If you are BORN OF GOD you will NOT practice SIN
v10. LOVE AND OBEDIENCE to GOD'S LAW SHOW WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE and DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAW SHOW THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL
v15. Example of the 7th commandment (Exodus 20: 13) being broken. Those who brake God's LAW and SIN DO NOT have ETERNAL LIFE

Links to what Jesus says in Matthew..............

Matthew 7
21,
Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THE DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN <FAITH THAT WORKS BY Love and OBEDIENCE>
22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23, And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU <1 John 3:6 = has not seen him or known him because they break God's LAW and practice SIN>: DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY (SIN)

................

CONCLUSION: The CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is those who are OBEDIENT to GOD'S Commandments and those who are DISOBEDIENT to God's COMMANDMENTS mentioning MURDER in v15 which is the 6th Commandment of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:13). PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments.

Sorry Bob, God's WORD disagrees with you that sin is not breaking God's LAW (10 Commandments)

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).



.









 
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Those who knowingly break God's commandments do not know God







And yet, lgw accepts as Christians those who do, in his view knowingly break God's commands, including himself

Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies
 
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Marco70

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................

CONCLUSION: but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry.

.
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.
rom 14:14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food.All(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. VERSE20

We must believe God's word over the words and traditions of men
 
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JLB777

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No your not trying to learn about God's Sabbath. Your not being honest now are you JLB? We have had these discussions before haven't we? Why do you come here pretending that your trying to learn about God's Sabbath when you have clearly made up your mind against it? Your not being honest now are you?

I’m honestly waiting for someone to present some New Testament scripture that specifically instruct the Church as to how to go about keeping the Sabbath.


We know that the Church is not under the law, which called for the Sabbath violater to be put to death.


If the Church gathered to worship Jesus on the Sabbath then please post the scriptures from Jesus or the Apostles that prove such a claim.


It’s very simple.


Posting Old Testament scriptures is futile, since it requires that even a person who gathers sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath is to be stoned to death.


I have always wanted to understand more about where you people get the idea that people who don’t go to Church on Saturday are doomed to hell, but I haven’t met one yet who has provided any instruction from the New Testament that teaches any such idea.


JLB
 
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JLB777

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I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.
rom 14:14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food.All(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. VERSE20

We must believe God's word over the words and traditions of men

Absolutely brother.

And that’s all it is the man made traditions of men.


JLB
 
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JLB777

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Can you show us that the Ten Commandments are deleted in the NT?

The commandments are not deleted.

The commandments were around long before Moses and kept by Abraham, 430years before the law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.


And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


The Church, the called out ones, the ecclesia, The Lord’s separate people, His holy nation began with Abraham, and from him and His descendants the Lord came and instituted the new “refreshed” covenant.

We are called children of Abraham, through faith in Jesus Christ.

The commandments apply to us today.

Those who claim to know Him (have eternal life) but do not keep His commandments are liars.


Keeping His commandments is how we know that we know Him, and love Him, and love our neigbor.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-5


When the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until Jesus came, some ordinances were added as well, such as food laws, ceremonial laws, feast days, and Sabbath requirements, of which it was required to put to death those who so much as gathered kindling to make a fire of the Sabbath.

Of course, The Church does not put to death people who gather sticks to build a fire on the Sabbath, today under the New Covenant.

Can you tell me why?



JLB
 
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BobRyan

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The SDA interpretation follows an earlier traditional reading of the text, where the ten commandments have priority.
.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise"

Not exactly "unknown news" to these non-SDA groups

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

And we all know it.

Still no support for the idea that, celebrating resurrection Sunday causes people to break the commandments!

You are not quoting any claim that I made. Try quoting me.

Surely you believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast?

Please quote "me" and not "you".

In Daniel 3 "tying your shoes is not the mark of the beast". It could only be "sin" under some very special condition setup by the government arranging an event that instructs rebellion against God - where tying one's shoes at a specific point in time - would indicate rebellion against the Word of God.

In Daniel 6 "praying at your bedside is not the mark of the beast". It could only be "sin" under some very special condition setup by the government arranging an event that instructs rebellion against God - where praying at one's bedside instead of out on the open porch at that specific point in time - would indicate rebellion against the Word of God.

And so it is today - attending a worship service on week-day-1 Sunday is not "the mark of the beast" apart from some government effort to make it a sign of rebellion against God.

So there - you have "quotes of me" you can use instead of constantly "quoting you" for things you wish I would say.

Even Sabbath breaking today - is not "the mark of the beast" no matter that it would be a sin or not depending on the knowledge of the person (As Christ points out).

No Bible text says that "the mark of the beast" is the only sin possible.
I have never said that either.

IF our government declared America a "Hindu nation" and invented a law that every morning at 7:30 A.M all true worshipers of Shiva are to stand outside their front door - offer up a bowl of cereal to Shiva then eat it as a sign that they are true followers of Shiva and will not be put in Jail.. then doing that would then be sin -- even though right now going out and eating a bowl of cereal outside your front door at 7:30 am would not be sin at all much less the "mark of the beast"
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I’m honestly waiting for someone to present some New Testament scripture that specifically instruct the Church as to how to go about keeping the Sabbath.

We know that the Church is not under the law, which called for the Sabbath violater to be put to death.

If the Church gathered to worship Jesus on the Sabbath then please post the scriptures from Jesus or the Apostles that prove such a claim.

It’s very simple. Posting Old Testament scriptures is futile, since it requires that even a person who gathers sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath is to be stoned to death.

I have always wanted to understand more about where you people get the idea that people who don’t go to Church on Saturday are doomed to hell, but I haven’t met one yet who has provided any instruction from the New Testament that teaches any such idea. JLB

Hello JBL you said in your first post that I responded to...

Bob, I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath, and understand why some people insist that keeping the Sabbath is a matter of eternal life and eternal death.

I responded with....

LoveGodsWord said:
No your not trying to learn about God's Sabbath. Your not being honest now are you JLB? We have had these discussions before haven't we? Why do you come here pretending that your trying to learn about God's Sabbath when you have clearly made up your mind against it? Your not being honest now are you?

As I said in the first post your not here to learn about the Sabbath at all are you?

I am happy however to answer your question from your first post with scripture if you can tell me where it says in the NT testament that God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?

Are you going to answer the question or ignore it like you have done every other time we have had a chat in the past?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Absolutely brother.
And that’s all it is the man made traditions of men. JLB

Did you mean Sunday worship is a man made tradition that has lead many to break the Commandments of God? Absolutely now you are speaking the truth.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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