God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

Christian believers still sin from time to time, though with spiritually maturing it is to diminish, with the sins salvation is not lost, it never is, because salvation is the work of Yahweh and it is never our own. With it we are to cooperate, for that growth. The less we grow the more discipline is allotted to us in the lessons we go through. So we are to come to greater obedience to the things he says. We may not be perfect, but we have the forgiveness and are to keep growing with obedience in that direction.

Sophrosyne said:

Paul does a lot of these analogies with the Law and people who are pro Law do not understand them at all.

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I wonder if that could also be understand and reject?

from scratch said:

Would that be (not) understand or reject?

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I think that those who are truly Christian and truly understand Paul will be at odds with themelves by rejecting him. The closer we draw unto God the less we focus on Do's and Do not's and just love.

ChristsSoldier115 said:

All christians follow the law inadvertently whether they want to or not once they convert. Thats the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. You no longer care about what you want or what the world wants, but what God wants. Which is the law summed up in a sense.

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That is not true...
What's true is; we should follow after righteousness.
What is righteousness? (Answer) Doing what God requires of us.

God has NOW established righteousness by faith, apart from the law. This is the new covenant.

What is righteousness by faith?
Faith is believing that God sent His Son to die for your sins and resurrected to give us a new birth through believing on Jesus.

The law served until Jesus died for sin.

BobRyan said:

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" -- yes "even" in the NT!

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the usual half truth lie.

your snippet post of Romans 6 gives a hint that the information in Romans 6 is in support of the Law of God - and against sin, against "transgression of the Law".

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No sir. You quickly forget sin was before the law in the previous chapter. Thus sin isn't dependent on the law. If I were to believe your half truth above this verse says there is no more sin -

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So lets not be so shy when it comes to Romans 6 -- let's have more.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

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Verse 15 doesn't grant permission to sin while it clearly says we're not obligated to the law which you promote.

BobRyan said:

So now given the "full focus" of Romans 6 as seen above - is it no wonder that it is said -

Paul does not contradict himself -- Amen!

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Then it must be you. Paul no where presents obligation to the law or any part of it.

[FONT=&quot]
1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes Moses TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16[/FONT]

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BobRyan said:

Hebrews 8 quotes Jer 31:31-33 and BOTH agree that instead of abolishing the Law of God - New Covenant "WRITES the Law on the mind AND on the heart".

What a contrast then between the lost and the saved is seen not only in Heb 8 but also in Romans 8:6-8 as a result of the LAW of God "written on the mind and on the heart".

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


No wonder then Paul can say when contrasting the ceremonial law with the moral law of God "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And as both John and Paul state keeping the Law of God is not something the lost will do - or CAN do. It is only for saved saints.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Where then is the "excuse" for all the war-against-God's-Law language that we some times see among Christians?

Indeed more than "one" Christian group has figured out that the saints are supposed to be KEEPING the TEN Commandments - instead of being at war against them.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley

All of them argue for the continued application of ALL TEN commandments to the saints today - starting in Eden and continued to this very day.

So while some Christian groups oppose them - there are quite a number in support of the TEN commandments - because under the New Covenant God writes the Law of God on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33 and also Hebrews 8.

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in Christ,

Bob

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Those passages don't say the covenant issued at Sinai are written on our hearts.

ChristsSoldier115 said:

All christians follow the law inadvertently whether they want to or not once they convert. Thats the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. You no longer care about what you want or what the world wants, but what God wants. Which is the law summed up in a sense.

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No sir, not even if you post a Baptist faith icon.

Sophrosyne said:

Nope.... I don't follow the Law nor do I wish to. The Law includes a bunch of stuff that pertains to things like diet, clothing warn, cleanliness, etc that most Christians don't ever even think about. Most Christians don't keep a proper Sabbath either including groups that promote it constantly they cheat when keeping it. The Law also demands punishment for breaking it something no group wants to have any part of whatsoever and not punishing is again... breaking the Law itself.

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Sophrosyne said:

I think that those who are truly Christian and truly understand Paul will be at odds with themelves by rejecting him. The closer we draw unto God the less we focus on Do's and Do not's and just love.

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Cribstyl said:

That is not true...
What's true is; we should follow after righteousness.
What is righteousness? (Answer) Doing what God requires of us.

God has NOW established righteousness by faith, apart from the law. This is the new covenant.

What is righteousness by faith?
Faith is believing that God sent His Son to die for your sins and resurrected to give us a new birth through believing on Jesus.

The law served until Jesus died for sin.

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I still say this thread title is wrong... Christians don't keep or break the 10 commandments so neither choice is correct.

BobRyan said:

Thank you for your vote. It is noted.

WE also have some other votes from sources that affirm the binding nature of God' Ten Commandments and they include - .
<SPAM DELETED>

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I could care less about your celebrity list they are meaningless to me compared to Paul's writings. Spamming them endlessly doesn't cancel Paul's words when he says we don't have to keep the Law.

BobRyan said:

Thank you for your vote. It is noted.

.

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Is this a discreet poll thread?

.

BobRyan said:

Thank you for your vote. It is noted.

WE also have some other votes from sources that affirm the binding nature of God' Ten Commandments and they include - .


The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson

For those whose only concern is trying to find the best way to downsize the TEN Commandments of God "to nine" - please notice that the list of sources above are all Sunday-keeping sources.


Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.

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[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
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Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

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I have pretty much the same statement from the "Westminster Confession of Faith" for those who prefer that source.

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These points have already been dealt with elsewhere more than once.

BobRyan said:

Thank you for your vote. It is noted.

WE also have some other votes from sources that affirm the binding nature of God' Ten Commandments and they include - .


The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
For those whose only concern is trying to find the best way to downsize the TEN Commandments of God "to nine" - please notice that the list of sources above are all Sunday-keeping sources....

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In light of the Revelation concerning the last-day is depicted in the Image of the woman standing on the moon, and she has a crown of twelve stars.

The present condition of the world depicted in the prophecy indicates a violation in the Law of Yahweh. The premise made about the ten commandments being reduced to "9" is incorrect for our time. You might be seeing a past condition of historic mankind but it's different today as the ten commandments have been reduced to only the last three commandments so to form the Image of the Three daughters at the foot of the Cross, and this is gender sensitive.

The female is a substitute for the Christ in this Image of the woman with a crown of twelve stars. The crown represents the Image of the Godhead-12, which is both the Image of the Father and the Son. The woman assumes this Image of "7" as covering the first "7" on the Cross, and starting at the Top where the first Two Great commandments are first seen, and in Order. The Order is significant, as well as the full number of the commandments be present in the Cross.

The last three commandments are under the feet of the Christ-image of "7" while exposing the last three as the Image of the moon. The moon is significant as it depicts a reflection of the earth's condition as in the Image of the Woman standing on it.

This is an image of a violation where Christ is crucified, afresh. The present world is said to be deceived and it follows the dragon in the last-days of prophecy. The present ten commandments have been reduced to the last three, and not nine as you think. This is a false teaching by the SDA church, and I'll stand on this truth until the end.

This teaching teaches the followers to commit fornication against the Most High, and because it is no different from excusing 3 or 7 from the Law, it makes no difference how many or which one is violated but in this case I am itemizing them in this fashion so that it relates to the Imagery in the visions of John concerning the Law and the Woman.

The SDA church is no exception, nor any other church on earth. All who teach anything other than the truth that John wrote in Revelation are all accusers of the brethren, and are no different from the father of lies, and his offspring.

Thanks