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Yes we know what a week is. Do I observe a week? No! do I watch it pass? Yes! Do I talk about next week? Yes! Do I thus hope it will come and go? Yes!"From Sabbath to Sabbath" AND "From New Moon to New Moon" in Is 66 BOTH cycles are kept by observing cycles -- not "ignoring them".
As perhaps we all knew to start with.
So then - just stating the obvious.
in Christ,
Bob
He's looking for a c & p quote from someone to quote so he doesn't have to make a statement. Can't hardly wait. The anticipation is killing me.
Turns out - you were not correct - because in context this can only be mankind. No text argues for the "Making" of Jews, but rather the "making" of the Sabbath and the "making" of Mankind.
[FONT="]27 Jesus said to them, "" The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. (G444 Anthropos)
28 ""So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.''
[FONT="]"All Nations of Mankind" G444 Acts 17:26[/FONT]
[FONT="]"The rest of mankind" - G444 Acts 15:17[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath" - Man. [/FONT]G444
[FONT="]And "Made for Mankind" in -- Man G444 Mark 2:27-28[/FONT]
[FONT="]"All Nations of Mankind" G444 Acts 17:26[/FONT]
[FONT="]"The rest of mankind" - G444 Acts 15:17[/FONT]
[FONT="]MAN in Mark 2:27 and 28 [/FONT] ἄνθρωπος[/FONT]
If the intent is to dismiss the entire life of Christ and the Gospels - then I suppose you could ignore the Gospels by saying "He was talking to Jews" -- how sad.
Good for the Sunday Sources I quote - they do no such thing as that.
The Sabbath was made for mankind - "and rested the seventh day therefore God Blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy" -- however the "Sabbaths" of Lev 23 as annual holidays are for the Jews as Paul points out in Acts 21 while observing the ceremonial law.
In any case - whoever said that the "mankind does not include the Jews"??
Not me that is for sure.
Is 56
For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Seven is your unlucky number.
Bump for BobRyan
Bob, do you advocate a premise that Jesus violated the Law, where it records a statement made directly by God?
Bob, do you advocate a premise that Jesus violated the Law, where it records a statement made directly by God?Bob, you completely dismissed the point from Exodus 31:13 you're responding to. Instead, you're advocating a rejection of the Law by Jesus, by applying a statement He made that the sabbath was 'made for man' outside the actual recipients of the sabbath. The Law itself makes the sabbath exclusive to the children of Israel, and what many of us see in Jesus' statement is that the sabbath wasn't God's rest; it was not 'made for God'.
As the texts above show - there is no such thing as the fictional "law" that gentiles must not keep the Ten Commandments or that Gentiles must not keep the seventh-day Sabbath where in Is 56 they are specifically singled out for keeping and blessed for doing so.
So also in Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship". And "obviously" the text also mentions the "new moon to new moon" cycle for the New Heavens and New Earth - both cycles observed by "all mankind".
No wonder Jesus said "The Sabbath was MADE FOR Mankind" Mark 2:27
No wonder even sunday keeping sources admit this point of the 4th commandment applicable to all mankind (even the saints) starting in Genesis 2:3.
The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
IT is not my fault that this Bible doctrine is so obvious.
in Christ,
Bob
Now that's sly if I ever saw it. You promote all mankind are obligated to the law. Which means you teach Gentiles (and all mankind) are obligated to the law. There is no support for such to be found in the Bible.As the texts above show - there is no such thing as the fictional "law" that gentiles must not keep the Ten Commandments or that Gentiles must not keep the seventh-day Sabbath where in Is 56 they are specifically singled out for keeping and blessed for doing so.
When do they worship? The verse says nothing about what happens on the Sabbath. Neither from nor to mean on. The phrase means between. All days aren't the 7th day Sabbath.So also in Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship". And "obviously" the text also mentions the "new moon to new moon" cycle for the New Heavens and New Earth - both cycles observed by "all mankind".
You still haven't deal with my question in which I show there is contrast in meaning.No wonder Jesus said "The Sabbath was MADE FOR Mankind" Mark 2:27
But they don't as Bugkiller showed in your formal debate.No wonder even sunday keeping sources admit this point of the 4th commandment applicable to all mankind (even the saints) starting in Genesis 2:3.
The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
Really?IT is not my fault that this Bible doctrine is so obvious.
Dear BobRyan. When Jesus was still with us, He told a Lawyer:
in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it:
Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus stated this great Truth: " On these
two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
BobRyan said:No wonder even sunday keeping sources admit this point of the 4th commandment applicable to all mankind (even the saints) starting in Genesis 2:3.
The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
FromScratch said:But they don't as Bugkiller showed in your formal debate.
Awesome new forum.
No evidence of that -- at all.
Details matter.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan said:No wonder even sunday keeping sources admit this point of the 4th commandment applicable to all mankind (even the saints) starting in Genesis 2:3.
The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
FromScratch said:But they don't as Bugkiller showed in your formal debate.
No sir. .
Responded yes, refuted no. You haven't even acknowledged your sources teach worshipping on Sunday opposed to Saturday. Furthermore if they teach keeping the 7th day Sabbath why is it they don't do it. I think it further reveals the truth of what they preach.
No evidence of that -- at all.
Details matter.
I have already refuted your wild claims several times by providing the very quotes of the sources that you appear to imply - should not exist.
If you have a way to back up your accusation with some sort of fact - please feel free to post one.
in Christ,
Bob
As a new covenant follower of Christ we do not use the Law as a means to be accepted by God because we are already accepted by God in Christ. As a new covenant follower of Christ we do not use our ability to obey the Law as a means to establish our value in the eyes of God. We were already valuable to God even while we were yet living in sin. As a new covenant follower of Christ our obedience to the Law becomes our expression of godly love.
Responded yes, refuted no. You haven't even acknowledged your sources teach worshipping on Sunday .
Here is how the OP starts out.
God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?
The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
For those whose only concern is trying to find the best way to downsize the TEN Commandments of God "to nine" - please notice that the list of sources above are all Sunday-keeping sources.
Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.
================================
Originally Posted by BobRyan
==========================================
[FONT="]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT="]
The Perpetuity of the Law of God
[/FONT]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.
Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .
Section 19
. The Law of God
- God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
- The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
- Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
- To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
- The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
- Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
- The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
================================
I have pretty much the same statement from the "Westminster Confession of Faith" for those who prefer that source.
This is even better than a printed concordance -The Law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. He is our Sabbath. Strive to enter into His rest. We are not to fulfill the Law in our flesh; rather, Christ in us is the fulfillment of the righteousness of God. The law is a mirror into which we look to see whether we are allowing Christ to perform that righteousness in and through us. "Let your light so shine..." Christ is that light in us.
I do not provide Scripture references because my concordance is in storage for the moment. But I think the supporting verses are so well known as to need no citing.
Looking down, hardly. The law condemns them, not the pro grace crowd. I'd say we're trying to drag them up to grace. That would be a wonderful upgrade IMHO. They run from the law to grace on violation anyway. Why not be a full time gracer?This is what I feel so many who look down on those who try to keep the law (say they are legalists) don't understand: we're not doing it because we think it (the keeping of the law) will win us favor before God. We're doing it (trying to anyway) because we love God and want to follow His commandments.
A worldly (so imperfect) comparison would be if someone loves another person on earth. Wouldn't they usually want to do what the other person asks of them, not because they think it's going to make that other person love them any more but because they're so in love with them that it is a pleasure to do what they want, because they love and adore that person? That whatever this person desires seems great and wonderful, and desirous to them too because it came from this precious person's mind and lips? This is close to how I experience the love I have for someone who used to be on this earth (though I know they were imperfect) and it is similar to how I feel about God.
grasping at straws - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.Responded yes, refuted no. You haven't even acknowledged your sources teach worshipping on Sunday opposed to Saturday. Furthermore if they teach keeping the 7th day Sabbath why is it they don't do it. I think it further reveals the truth of what they preach.
Selected out of context quotes prove nothing.
So the reality is they don't do what you claim they do. What is practiced is the reality of what is preached.Each time I call them "Sunday Sources" - I state that they worship on Sunday -- obviously.
So you need to make at least one accusation that has some fact to it.
In the mean time I show repeatedly that these Sunday Sources affirm ALL TEN commandments -- read it in THEIR text -- as we can ALL see it.
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