God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

[MJohn7]

Can anyone present a passage indicating the Christian is required to keep any of the law?

Why debate this? Surely we are given commands, what are they?

1 Thess 4:2 For you know what commandments we gave you [a]by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

 

[SAAN]

This thread should be changed from

God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?


to


The 4th Commandment: Keep it? or break it?




Because no one ever questions Christians about the other 9 commandments, its always the 4th command and Lev 23 that they are questioned on.

 

[Cribstyl]

This thread should be changed from

God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?


to


The 4th Commandment: Keep it? or break it?




Because no one ever questions Christians about the other 9 commandments, its always the 4th command and Lev 23 that they are questioned on.

About the Sabbath......
The fact that it's a cremonial commandment is the reason that sabbath was a sign. God made the Sabbath a covenant between Himself and the Children of Israel. Saying it's a creation ordinance is a contradiction to biblical facts. If it was a creation ordinance, why would God make it a covenant for only the COI to keep?

 

[Cribstyl]

I am not sure if I posted this or not - but just in case.

[FONT=&quot]KEEP the Commandments[/FONT]


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

Christ said

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

The fact that John is always talking about the new commandments that Christ gave as His commandments exposes deception highlighting isolated text.
John's gospel always referred to and contrast the law as given by Moses, so what he claims as Christ commandments was word that Christ taught the disciples.

KJV Search Results for "law"

 

[from scratch]

Why debate this? Surely we are given commands, what are they?

1 Thess 4:2 For you know what commandments we gave you [a]by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

Please answer the question. Thanks.

 

[MJohn7]

Please answer the question. Thanks.

Pauls teaching is hard to understand, he uses analogy to teach some things about the Law. Paul says we are under grace (but we are still given commandments by the apostles.) Paul's teaching is telling us that death has no more dominion over us, but we still obey God, the law kills the old man but Grace gives the new man life, and grace itself teaches us to obey God and deny worldly lusts. And Jesus gave the apostles the task of teaching us gentiles what commands to obey, and Paul does give us commands.


Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 Thess 4:2 For you know what commandments we gave you [a]by the authority of the Lord Jesus.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.


Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[MJohn7]

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed?

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

 

[MJohn7]

Hebrews seems to say that "today" is the day of rest. (Sabbath)

Hebrews 4:6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:


“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.


14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[f] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 

[BobRyan]

In Is 66:23 we find out that long after the cross - and for all eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship".

--------------
Notice how Christ deals with religious leaders trying to find a way to set aside the commandments of God --


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

Christ said

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Mark 7 the religious leaders had figured out a way to sidestep the 5th commandment.

Christ was not pleased.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here is how the OP starts out.


God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson

For those whose only concern is trying to find the best way to downsize the TEN Commandments of God "to nine" - please notice that the list of sources above are all Sunday-keeping sources.


Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.

Since the question is also asked about the "Baptist Confession of Faith" affirmation of the TEN commandments as binding on all saints from Eden to this very day...

==========================================

[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

I have pretty much the same statement from the "Westminster Confession of Faith" for those who prefer that source.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MJohn7]

In Is 66:23 we find out that long after the cross - and for all eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship".

--------------
Notice how Christ deals with religious leaders trying to find a way to set aside the commandments of God --


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

Christ said

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Mark 7 the religious leaders had figured out a way to sidestep the 5th commandment.

Christ was not pleased.

in Christ,



Bob

Bro, you are one side of a coin, and the "no rules" guys are on the other. You guys all wear me out.

I love grace, i love following the NT commands, i love Jesus.

Hallelujah, praise the Lord, im free. The word is a lamp unto my feet, and his Grace sustains me. He is my shield and strength, i love his law and his tender mercy. What a delight, to be given sight, to fight the good fight, faith and liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

Please answer the question. Thanks.

I believe in "Sola Scriptura" testing of doctrine so my belief is that Jesus probably endorsed scripture - rather than trashing it since He said "the scriptures cannot be broken" AND also 'If they do not listen to Moses neither will they listen though one rises from the dead" and then there is that debate He entered into about the 5th commandment in Mark 7.

What is interesting is that when Paul quotes the 5th commandment in Eph 6:1-2 declaring it to be in the unit of law binding on all the saints - he does not quote Christ - just Moses.

Apparently Paul believed that Christ fully endorsed the Word of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MJohn7]

His word delights my soul
Like a lost sheep i hear his call
O how i love the Lord
he is my shield and my sword
Praise the Lord, my heart rejoices
He is mine and i am his.

 

[BobRyan]

Bro, you are one side of a coin, and the "no rules" guys are on the other. You guys all wear me out.

I love grace, i love following the NT commands, i love Jesus.

Hallelujah, praise the Lord, im free.

Indeed praise God!

I think it is important to define what the Bible says "the Commandments of God are" (even by NT standards ) before we get into the issue of which ones to ignore.

That is why I keep pointing out the fact that there are a large number of Christian groups siding with the Commandments of God - the moral law of God that includes the Bible "Ten Commandments".

I think there are some who just want to oppose the TEN commandments declaring them to be abolished or at least downsized.

And this thread is the place to have that discussion.

But there is another group whose concerns are not being heard here so I may start a new thread for it. And that is the group that will gladly accept the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God - but would prefer to "edit" a few of them.

That will be another thread.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the Law"

Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Amen Paul!

 

[BobRyan]

Though the effort is not very serious at this point in giving Bible evidence against the Ten Commandments or in favor of downsizing the ten commandments - this is the thread for making that case -- if there is one.

And this is the thread for those who support "TEN Commandments" and not "a downsized NINE" or "TEN Commandments all gone" - to make their case from scripture.

There is "another thread" for those who are willing to admit to the Bible details on the TEN Commandments - but would like to make a 'change' to one or two of them.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7802659/#post64960893

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Can anyone present a passage indicating the Christian is required to keep any of the law?

So then - let's start with the sermon on the mount.


Matt 5
7 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

This next part is key - as well.


19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



Christ never expected the lost were able to keep the Commandments of God as lost people. The lost must give up - choose the new birth and forgiveness of sin through the blood of Christ.


Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

But Christ did quote from Ex 20:6 when He said "if you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" - for Christ - made that Claim that HE IS God in John 14.

Is it any wonder then these other Christian sources are so much in agreement with "what matters is keeping the COMMANDMENTS of GOD" 1Cor 7:19??

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley



Christ himself equates "Word of God" and "Commandment of God" with Law of Moses" in Mark 7.

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said,

 

[Sophrosyne]

One cannot break the Laws of Israel if one isn't an Israeli to begin with.

 

[BobRyan]

God is Sovereign over all the earth. His Law is the Law not only of earth - but of the entire Universe.

Thus as John says in 1John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of The Law".

Paul says that the LAW of God "defines what sin is" in Romans 7

And in Romans 4 "Where there is no Law - there is no sin".

In Romans 3 the LAW covers the entire planet and the whole world is held accountable and judged guilty - and in need of a Savior.

No Savior - then a huge problem because the law places all under 'sin" ALL "have SINNED and fallen short".

And Paul says that even for the saints of God "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

There are a few "be not deceived" texts in the NT and most of them go like this ..

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed,

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

God gave his law to Israel..... and ONLY Israel. God never told those nations around Israel they were to keep the Law.. He never punished them for breaking the Sabbath either.