God's plan

[Mahammad]

It seems like the Abrahamic god has a plan for everyone, a plan for everything, a plan that he made before he created anything. But every religion/branch has their own interpretation of this plan, So if you believe in this divine plan, can you explain it? What is God's plan? Does this plan cover every aspect of people's life? Does this plan affect everything in this world? What if things got out of God's control? What will happen?

 

[Arthra]

It seems like the Abrahamic god has a plan for everyone, a plan for everything, a plan that he made before he created anything. But every religion/branch has their own interpretation of this plan, So if you believe in this divine plan, can you explain it? What is God's plan? Does this plan cover every aspect of people's life? Does this plan affect everything in this world? What if things got out of God's control? What will happen?

Well for myself as a Baha'i God has been sending Prophets and Messengers since people have been around and they generally have the same spiritual message.. now over time the message itself can get garbled and confused..so some only accept literal interpretations of what they feel were revealed and others take a more allegorical or symbolic interpretation.

Now as the Message can be lost or forgotten over time.. God sends new Messengers with virtually the same spiritual message to restore it.

Over time human social institutions and laws develop and there are new challenges and problems people must solve..When the Israelites were in the desert there were no large governments and very few city states.. so conditions required laws that were suited for the time.

When Jesus came along Judea was occupied by Rome and people were faced with challenges like how do we get along with an occupying force and whether taxes should be paid and you had Pharisees that made a lot of demands on how people lived their lives so His Message addressed some of these needs..

Same can be said when Prophet Muhammad appeared and so on.. unique circumstances called for special social teachings and so on..

so in my view along with the restored spiritual teachings God sends social teachings that are more appropriate for the time. But all these religions for the most part had the same Divine origin only they were for humanity at various stages in development.

So that's how I see it..

 

[razeontherock]

What is God's plan?

Salvation. Reconciliation and restoration of all things, to His will, as it was from the beginning.

Does this plan cover every aspect of people's life?

We're not supposed to mill about like mindless robots, if that's what you're asking. OTOH, a devout believer will be drawn to seek G-d's will in every area of life ...

What if things got out of God's control? What will happen?

That was done on purpose, when He gave mankind dominion! This is something that is overlooked / underestimated. Yet things are ultimately within His control. That sure leaves ample room for Faith, huh?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I suppose if there actually was a transcendent, omniscient, personal superbeing out there (a possibility that I'm open to consider), its plan would involve too much information for us to comprehend, kinda like trying to explain algebra to our pet dog.
Oh sure, that being would probably be smart enough to dumb it down sufficiently for us to grasp *some* of it, but it'd still not be the same as actually understanding the whole thing.


One of the aspects that I find so absolutely unconvincing about personal deities (as portrayed by most religions) is that their mental faculties, emotional motivators and overall personalities rarely seem to exceed those of anthropoid mammals (namely, us), in spite of allegations to the contrary.

 

[b&wpac7]

you had Pharisees that made a lot of demands on how people lived their lives

Did ya now?

 

[Mahammad]

Well for myself as a Baha'i God has been sending Prophets and Messengers since people have been around and they generally have the same spiritual message.. now over time the message itself can get garbled and confused..so some only accept literal interpretations of what they feel were revealed and others take a more allegorical or symbolic interpretation.

Now as the Message can be lost or forgotten over time.. God sends new Messengers with virtually the same spiritual message to restore it.

Over time human social institutions and laws develop and there are new challenges and problems people must solve..When the Israelites were in the desert there were no large governments and very few city states.. so conditions required laws that were suited for the time.

When Jesus came along Judea was occupied by Rome and people were faced with challenges like how do we get along with an occupying force and whether taxes should be paid and you had Pharisees that made a lot of demands on how people lived their lives so His Message addressed some of these needs..

Same can be said when Prophet Muhammad appeared and so on.. unique circumstances called for special social teachings and so on..

so in my view along with the restored spiritual teachings God sends social teachings that are more appropriate for the time. But all these religions for the most part had the same Divine origin only they were for humanity at various stages in development.

So that's how I see it..

Does God's plan to you involve sending messengers only?

 

[Mahammad]

Salvation. Reconciliation and restoration of all things, to His will, as it was from the beginning.

Is God's will limitless?

We're not supposed to mill about like mindless robots, if that's what you're asking. OTOH, a devout believer will be drawn to seek G-d's will in every area of life ...

How do you seek God's will? If God wills something I assume it happens without the approval of a creation.

That was done on purpose, when He gave mankind dominion! This is something that is overlooked / underestimated. Yet things are ultimately within His control. That sure leaves ample room for Faith, huh?

If I have my own free will then I'm free from God's will.

 

[Mahammad]

I suppose if there actually was a transcendent, omniscient, personal superbeing out there (a possibility that I'm open to consider), its plan would involve too much information for us to comprehend, kinda like trying to explain algebra to our pet dog.
Oh sure, that being would probably be smart enough to dumb it down sufficiently for us to grasp *some* of it, but it'd still not be the same as actually understanding the whole thing.

But the question is, does his plan cover everything in my life? does it cover every single second from my birth till my death?

One of the aspects that I find so absolutely unconvincing about personal deities (as portrayed by most religions) is that their mental faculties, emotional motivators and overall personalities rarely seem to exceed those of anthropoid mammals (namely, us), in spite of allegations to the contrary.

You might like this one.

YouTube - Chimps Worship Their Supreme Being: The Origin of Religion

 

[Mahammad]

I hope we see at least one Muslim in this thread, I really wanna discuss qadaa & qadar.

 

[bling]

The plan is totally logical if we think about it.

If there is a God that has been around forever, He would have had the time to become the best at everything including Love.

We define “love” lots of different ways but we all seem to see someone acting selflessly toward another as being loving. God would be the ultimate Lover and thus totally selfless, not ever doing stuff for His own sake but always quenching His own personal desires to help others fulfill their objective. This Godly type Love would be way beyond man’s ability to develop (Islam describes it as 40 times greater than a mother’s Love for her innocent baby and Christian define it as everything Christ did and said). Just as a mother’s love for her baby will compel her to do sacrificial acts, God’s Love compels Him to do all that He does (becoming the most powerful force in all universes [the Bible says God is Love]).

This Love would compel God to create beings that could Love like He Loves and for the sake of those that will accept this Love He created them.

The problem comes with obtaining this Love since it cannot just be instinctively given to humans (that would be robotic love) and it cannot be forced on beings (love or be tortured) that would not be loving on God’s part or would they truly Love like God. This Love cannot be learned or developed so it will have to be given as a gift. BUT this is a huge gift to give making the person like God Himself and would have to be given as pure “Charity”, freely, undeserving and unconditionally.

Humans are made with needed egos (self preservation) that make them independent for good reasons, but that also makes it very hard for humans to accept “charity” especially from a giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

Everything that has happen and is happening is set up to help willing humans accept “charity” with the easiest way being in the form of God’s forgiveness (Mercy/grace/Love/Charity). God is doing and allowing everything He can to help willing humans achieve this wonderful objective. That “everything” includes Jesus going to the cross, satan roaming the earth, tragedies of all kinds, hell, heaven and even allowing people to sin.

 

[Arthra]

Does God's plan to you involve sending messengers only?

I don't presume to be all that knowlegeable about God's Plan.. but we know that intimations, inspirations, dreams and more precede the appearance of the Messengers.. and all we can say for sure is that there have been Messengers and Prophets of God as there are records of them..

Over time religious institutions get established around these Messengers ostensibly to follow Their teachings and these can go awry or mislead people over time. Political leaders caan arise and those seeking power can corrupt and mislead.

People for instance can become bound by many regulations and beliefs that have little to do with the original teachings of the Messengers.

 

[razeontherock]

Is God's will limitless?

I'm not sure how this question relates to what you're responding to, or even what it means.

If God wills something I assume it happens without the approval of a creation.

If I have my own free will then I'm free from God's will.

Notice how you're 2 statements here contradict each other. Wanna guess which is incorrect? What happens when you assume? Surely that is not the way to seek G-d's will, either.

 

[benmaarof]

I hope we see at least one Muslim in this thread, I really wanna discuss qadaa & qadar.

Cogito ergo sum.

Freewill is an illusion. God is Omniscient & Omnipotent. For us to have complete freewill without any kind of God's interference is illogical for an Omnipotent & Omniscient God.

So where does that put us? Do we have a say in anything?

However, we do feel like we have freewill, don't we? We feel that it's our own choice that we make when we think or do anything. In the end, it's the only thing that matters.

Why? Because of the consequences. If we chose to cut ourselves with knives, the consequence is that we will hurt and bleed. If we get hungry, we can choose to starve to death or fulfill our hunger by eating something.

Everything we do have consequences. Intentionally or not. It's not possible to live without doing anything. Even doing nothing means we chose to do nothing.

And in that part, we have no choice.

We have no choice but to make choices. We have no freewill in that.

Regardless, whether we believe in absolute freewill or God's preordained plans, we still feel that we have the freewill to make our own choices.

Whether to eat or starve.
Whether to watch the Superbowl or go fishing.
Whether to submit to God or not.

So, for us Muslims, the non-existence of God is illogical. God exists and that we are here for no other reason than to submit to Him.

So it's really up to us whether to submit or defy or deny Him. There are consequences for all those choices.

Even if we Muslims believe our choices are not entirely our own, we still believe God exists and that there are consequences for all our choices that we think we are making out of our own freewill.

 

[Zoness]

I take the absurdist's position on this: Basically if there is an all-powerful God and he has a plan then it transcends human understanding and we are wasting any and all effort to understand.

I don't personally believe in a grand plan because it implies importance and I know as an individual I am not important in the scheme of things, most people aren't. Wow that sounded more negative than I had intended. Oops lol

 

[razeontherock]

Zoness, your ideas there fail to account for this:

"Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."

 

[Zoness]

Zoness, your ideas there fail to account for this:

"Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."

Of course I didn't account for that because it would of course imply that I am Christian to derive me personal beliefs from the Bible. However, both of my parents would be classified as devout Christians and neither of them emphasized my personal importance so its not something I was raised with. Some could argue that it accounts for severe self-esteem issues; I agree and disagree but my mental health is not relevant.

If there is a grand plan, we won't ever know it so why try?

 

[razeontherock]

Better yet, we won't ever be perfect but don't let that stop us from trying ...

And I've read the back of the book, we can know significant portions of the grand plan, and also our next step. (Individually)

 

[elopez]

It seems like the Abrahamic god has a plan for everyone, a plan for everything, a plan that he made before he created anything. But every religion/branch has their own interpretation of this plan, So if you believe in this divine plan, can you explain it? What is God's plan? Does this plan cover every aspect of people's life? Does this plan affect everything in this world? What if things got out of God's control? What will happen?

I don't think anyone can explain this divine plan in any specific, certain way, as it is all known to God only. For me, I do not think one's entire life is planned, only certain aspects of it such as those pertaining to salvation. It could be said that this plan of salvation does effect the world, but not in the same way. So it would be no wonder that things happen out of accordance with God's plan, but that doesn't mean God isn't in control.

 

[Zoness]

Better yet, we won't ever be perfect but don't let that stop us from trying ...

This part actually bugs me significantly because it left a disconnect in morality for a long time. It is basically like: "You will never be perfect because only God is perfect, however you need to TRY EXTREMELY HARD TO BE PERFECT but you are absolutely incapable of that since only God is perfect but if you do not try to be perfect with all your might then you aren't trying period and not living the correct way".

Always felt wrong and ultra counterproductive to me. Why fixate on strict morality and social standards day in and day out but then hear "well its not important because Jesus gets rid of all that" but then almost in the same paragraph you will hear "you need to be more in the spirit" or some other empty buzzphrase. I simply don't get it, and I apologize from derailing from the key point of the thread.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

This part actually bugs me significantly because it left a disconnect in morality for a long time. It is basically like: "You will never be perfect because only God is perfect, however you need to TRY EXTREMELY HARD TO BE PERFECT but you are absolutely incapable of that since only God is perfect but if you do not try to be perfect with all your might then you aren't trying period and not living the correct way".

Always felt wrong and ultra counterproductive to me. Why fixate on strict morality and social standards day in and day out but then hear "well its not important because Jesus gets rid of all that" but then almost in the same paragraph you will hear "you need to be more in the spirit" or some other empty buzzphrase. I simply don't get it, and I apologize from derailing from the key point of the thread.

Agreed. Christianity isn't the only religion or world view that follows the approach of guilt-tripping and moralizing, admittedly, but it is counterproductive. Enormously so.
Emphasizing a person's strengths and virtues and encouraging them to develop them more will always be more beneficial to their personal development than obsessing about their shortcomings and weaknesses.