God's instructions to Christian men

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Where the bible says that about Eve's desire shall be for her husband......speaking as a wife of long standing, I'm pretty sure that means that the wife desires and needs the attention and care of her husband.......especially when children come along and she is tethered to hearth and home, the woman often has fewer options or time for outside companionship and really needs the companionship of her husband, a listening ear who cares, a willing escort on outings, and the general reassurance that her husband is available for her and tuned in.

You must remember that the thing about womans desire to be for her husband does not meanthat because it was part of her CURSE. It was part of Eve's (and all women's) curse. Its not a good thing.
It is a microcosm of the struggle between mans will and God's will. The marriage covanent is a microcosm of our relationship with Yeshua.
 
Upvote 0

HeLeadethMe

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
417
368
64
Toronto
✟32,827.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You must remember that the thing about womans desire to be for her husband does not meanthat because it was part of her CURSE. It was part of Eve's (and all women's) curse. Its not a good thing.
It is a microcosm of the struggle between mans will and God's will. The marriage covanent is a microcosm of our relationship with Yeshua.

I agree it is not a good thing............women are more dependent on their husbands this way, it is not good, just reality in a fallen world, as you say part of the curse.......and often we suffer for it. Hope I am understanding what you mean Shempster, or maybe you are saying something that I am not grasping...?
 
Upvote 0

Sam91

Child of the Living God
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,256
8,174
41
United Kingdom
✟53,491.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What do you think about a situation with an adult who has so little internal discipline that they can't make any productive use of downtime, and are always just falling into a clickhole online, staying there for hours and rotting their brain to the point of being unable to form stable family relationships? And recognizing this, but being unable / unwilling to do anything about it? And / or seeking sensual pleasures (not sexual, sensual - smells, touches, etc) far, far too often? There's nothing illegal going on, and nothing that there are pamphlets about is really identifiable, but there's lassitude and withdrawal that make a giant hole in the family. And if this person just refuses to get professional help.

I'm seriously asking, here. I have no idea what to do. "MAKE this person do X..." - so does that include physically dragging their body to a counselor? Week after week? Because I've done everything but that, used all my skill, all my subtlety, all my patience. I've bottomed out on just about everything.
Quality time? Joint task, where the member and you can work together and forge a deeper relationship. Something the other person would enjoy, be good at and can get some loving positive comments and a greater sense of purpose? Less time to do the unfruitful things then. There are a number of proverbs advising against being a sluggard. Not saying that the person is but the wisdom imparted in those could hold true to your situation. Have a think on the suggestion.

(Is the person stressed or got sensory overload? My daughter might be on the ASD spectrum (when tested scored high enoungh but diagnosis is witheld for nowas she has a lot of strengths) and is drawn to screens to relax.. she touches things and smells them a lot as she has sensory issues it soothes and noise, bright light stress.)

Just a thought, sorry to intrude on this thread.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I agree it is not a good thing............women are more dependent on their husbands this way, it is not good, just reality in a fallen world, as you say part of the curse.......and often we suffer for it. Hope I am understanding what you mean Shempster, or maybe you are saying something that I am not grasping...?
No, I am saying that in the core of human beings, there is an insatiable desire to control others. This is at the top of the list of things that we need to overcome.
We need to have a servants attitude and always exhibit grace towards others....especially our significant others. Afterall, if we can't be submissive to them, how can we be submissive to Yeshua?
 
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
So guys..........I am challenging you..........let's see what you know about how you are supposed to comport yourselves on this earth, in the Body of Christ and in your homes. Let's hear it gentlemen, please...........dying for thirst here on that subject! Famine in the land! :)

This is the one that came first to mind. “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;” (Eph 5:25 KJV)

Now, to what point does Jesus love the Church? He loves it so much that while we were yet sinners, He died for us. (Rom 5:8) He loves us so much that He is the guarantor in His promise that the Church would prevail. (Matt 16:18) He loves us so much that he said that any two or three would gather in His name, He would be in our midst.

For an omnipotent powerful, omniscient God to say something like that, that He is making Himself servant to us, to make sure that we are always loved, to give us the greatest gift--eternal life, and to make it available to us so that, by our own choice, we could achieve it, and then to guarantee that His Church would prevail, and that He would be with us, whenever we gather together in His name, well, that speaks volumes. Much more than any man (including myself) is even ABLE to do, WOW! Not only that, but He also guaranteed that the Father would send the Holy Spirit upon us. I am astounded that the Creator of the universe is willing to tie Himself to us with such bonds of love.
 
Upvote 0

HeLeadethMe

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
417
368
64
Toronto
✟32,827.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, I am saying that in the core of human beings, there is an insatiable desire to control others. This is at the top of the list of things that we need to overcome.
We need to have a servants attitude and always exhibit grace towards others....especially our significant others. Afterall, if we can't be submissive to them, how can we be submissive to Yeshua?

Oh I think I see, you are saying that "a woman's desire shall be for her husband" means she will desire to control him?...... I hadn't thought of it that way before. I don't see desire as being the same thing as controlling though....? But I will look up that word and have a think about it, maybe it is related. Just that I don't see controlling as being a universal trait among women....some are, some aren't and a range in between. But needing/desiring the husband's companionship and attention....seems to be pretty well across the board, as far as I know. While men seem to be much more independent that way, in general....? Anyway, will think about it, I appreciate the input.

Agree about serving and submitting to to one another, for sure, amen.
 
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Episcopalian
May 5, 2012
4,398
5,097
New Jersey
✟336,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I just don't have infinite resources and eventually I'm going to collapse under the weight of this. Then, of course, it'll be "you're the head of the family! YOU can't collapse!"
Do you have anyone in your life who can support you -- an understanding family member, friend, whatever? I don't mean help solve the problem; I mean give you, personally, emotional support while you deal with this? A listening ear, a hug, that kind of thing. It sounds like you're carrying an awful lot right now.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0

archer75

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2016
5,931
4,649
USA
✟256,152.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Do you have anyone in your life who can support you -- an understanding family member, friend, whatever? I don't mean help solve the problem; I mean give you, personally, emotional support while you deal with this? A listening ear, a hug, that kind of thing. It sounds like you're carrying an awful lot right now.
I guess this sounds like a sob story and that was not my intent, I think, but since you were kind enough to ask, I think the answer is no.

Now, if I can just stop talking about this on CF!
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Oh I think I see, you are saying that "a woman's desire shall be for her husband" means she will desire to control him?...... I hadn't thought of it that way before. I don't see desire as being the same thing as controlling though....? But I will look up that word and have a think about it, maybe it is related. Just that I don't see controlling as being a universal trait among women....some are, some aren't and a range in between. But needing/desiring the husband's companionship and attention....seems to be pretty well across the board, as far as I know. While men seem to be much more independent that way, in general....? Anyway, will think about it, I appreciate the input.

Agree about serving and submitting to to one another, for sure, amen.

The curse was about sin, not about God forcing women (or men) to have certain behaviors towards one another. Because of Adam and Eve's disobedience, they and of their descendants were forced to live in a world saturated with sin and all of the sinful behaviors that resulted from it. Men dominating over women wasn't because God made it that way, or wanted it that way, but as a result of sin. After the disobedience, God was telling Adam and Eve of the things that were going to happen in the future as a result of the sin.

But it wouldn't be God doing it...they would be doing it that way on their own, but we have free will, and we don't have to continue doing it that way. It's not women's internal nature to need the man any more than the man needs the woman, but in many societies that we humans set up, we created environments where we forced women to have to become economically and socially dependent on men. Again, a result of our sin. Not God's doing.

Paul had a much different message! There is no male or female in Christ! Husbands and wives were to serve and submit to each other. If the husband was compared to the head as Christ is the head of the church, it wasn't "head" as "ruling over" (as the original Greek will show) but to demonstrate how the husband needed to act as a servant to his wife as Christ did here on earth serving and saving the people. Similarly, the wife is to submit to the needs of her husband and they have authority over each other.

This whole idea of women and men having such an equal relationship in Christ and even in the churches was practically unheard of during Paul's time. He was quite the radical! The Greeks in Paul's time kept their wives locked away at home (think like Saudi Arabia) and for a woman to even *speak* to a man who wasn't her husband was considered an act of adultery. Only the "bad women" like prostitutes behaved otherwise. And here Paul was proclaiming that not only should men have only *one* wife, but it should be a mutually respectful relationship, and that *both* men and women should be educated in the churches. (Women were typically not educated at all at that time.) And there were even women *running* some of these Christian churches. Very exciting stuff!

Unfortunately though, we still do have the sin problem that still causes a lot of hurt and inequality and suffering in our world (as God informed us would happen) but we also have the hope and promise of Christ's return!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Paidiske
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
OK I'm going to get it for this but God often teaches us by giving us opposite positions.
God told man he would have dominion over woman and that woman would desire that dominion.
But let's face it, women are superior to men in most ways except for physical strength and maybe crazy risk-taking. But though God told the man that he was to have dominion, man misses the whole character of women and how much more like God they are than we.
So, though man has dominion and can legally exersise it, a wise man will set it aside and treat the woman as though she has the dominion.
Now the problem: many women would take this and run with it-dragging down the whole relationship into anarchy. This only works when BOTH parties act in God's love towards each other by willingly giving over dominion.

If this can be done then the perfect union is established.
Could you give examples here? I am not really sure what you are saying in this post.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,478.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Bringing this over from another thread:

I am a woman who believes what is written in the bible, and I pop something on my head even in my private prayer time, as well as believe in male headship. However, I would love for once to see just one post teaching Christian men how to be Godly men...........the fact that in the more than 30 years I have known the Lord, time and time again I have heard sermons and seen posts concerning women submitting to husbands and covering heads etc, but almost nothing to teach men what God asks of them. It tells me that almost nobody understands what God requires of the men, since they never bring it up. It gets even more concerning especially when we consider that oft reminding is always needed on all things biblical, much less initial teaching. Since men have GOD-GIVEN leadership......it follows that if they had been living according to God's standards as men, there would not be so many problems that we see concerning women in the church nowadays, since the tail on a Body naturally tends to follow the head when it's going somewhere, most of the time at least.

(And I would add that Hillsong's and the whole church's problems go way deeper than a woman on stage having her hair shaved hair or not, so to solve outward symptons, why not focus on the root problems first.)

So guys..........I am challenging you..........let's see what you know about how you are supposed to comport yourselves on this earth, in the Body of Christ and in your homes. Let's hear it gentlemen, please...........dying for thirst here on that subject! Famine in the land! :)
I once counseled a youth pastor about this very topic. The duty of the man in the relationship is to love our wives as Christ loved the church. And how did he love the church? He took responsibility for her wrong-doing, and he laid down his life for her. The woman's duty is to obey. The man's duty is to bear her iniquity and die for her if need be.

Frankly, it seems to me that men have been doing that all along. The woman is always right. And if she isn't, just remember that she's always right. And then there's "women and children first." The problem with our respective responsibilities only seems to come into play when women are told that they should obey. For most women, that's an irking statement. When men are told that they should lay down their lives for their wives, most would volunteer without being told.
 
Upvote 0

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Could you give examples here? I am not really sure what you are saying in this post.
Well its all a matter of self.
Each person is mostly concerned with their own needs and agendas.
My point is that if each party is mostly concerned with the others happiness and needs that they will fulfill the law of Christ. I cannot think of an exact example....it can apply to anything
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeLeadethMe
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Oh I think I see, you are saying that "a woman's desire shall be for her husband" means she will desire to control him?...... I hadn't thought of it that way before. I don't see desire as being the same thing as controlling though....? But I will look up that word and have a think about it, maybe it is related. Just that I don't see controlling as being a universal trait among women....some are, some aren't and a range in between. But needing/desiring the husband's companionship and attention....seems to be pretty well across the board, as far as I know. While men seem to be much more independent that way, in general....? Anyway, will think about it, I appreciate the input.

Agree about serving and submitting to to one another, for sure, amen.
From the context about the woman's desire is for her husband, I think the apostle meant that women will seek to please their husbands and since women want to please their husbands, the husbands ought to be pleasing God. The man's desire is to please God, the woman's desire is to please her husband and a godly family is presented.
 
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,478.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
OK I'm going to get it for this but God often teaches us by giving us opposite positions.
God told man he would have dominion over woman and that woman would desire that dominion.
But let's face it, women are superior to men in most ways except for physical strength and maybe crazy risk-taking. But though God told the man that he was to have dominion, man misses the whole character of women and how much more like God they are than we.
So, though man has dominion and can legally exersise it, a wise man will set it aside and treat the woman as though she has the dominion.
Now the problem: many women would take this and run with it-dragging down the whole relationship into anarchy. This only works when BOTH parties act in God's love towards each other by willingly giving over dominion.

If this can be done then the perfect union is established.
You should read Hosea. That whole book disagrees with you. God acts every bit like a man in every respect. He even demonstrates a streak of spitefulness towards Israel after he divorced her. Nor do I see any evidence of women being superior to men. I'll allow that they have their own strengths that men do not have, just as men have strengths women do not have. But I see no evidence of feminine superiority.
 
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You should read Hosea. That whole book disagrees with you. God acts every bit like a man in every respect. He even demonstrates a streak of spitefulness towards Israel after he divorced her. Nor do I see any evidence of women being superior to men. I'll allow that they have their own strengths that men do not have, just as men have strengths women do not have. But I see no evidence of feminine superiority.
Women can bear children. This is the thing that makes me feel very glad to be a woman. If it is God's will, I may one day carry a child under my heart. To feel a child kicking and moving in the womb is a superior thing, to my way of thinking.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HeLeadethMe

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
417
368
64
Toronto
✟32,827.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I once counseled a youth pastor about this very topic. The duty of the man in the relationship is to love our wives as Christ loved the church. And how did he love the church? He took responsibility for her wrong-doing, and he laid down his life for her. The woman's duty is to obey. The man's duty is to bear her iniquity and die for her if need be.

Frankly, it seems to me that men have been doing that all along. The woman is always right. And if she isn't, just remember that she's always right. And then there's "women and children first." The problem with our respective responsibilities only seems to come into play when women are told that they should obey. For most women, that's an irking statement. When men are told that they should lay down their lives for their wives, most would volunteer without being told.

I agree most men would intervene with their own lives on the line to protect their wife, and actually that is one of the lovelier sides of how nature/creation shows us and teaches us about God. All this is just some thoughts for discussion, but I believe Jesus was talking about a day by day sacrificial relationship as well, not just in times of crisis or war. The husband is to be the covering for the wife allowing her to function day by day with the reassurance of his benevolent presence, protection and oversight. Modern society has actually undermined and blurred the differences between men and women, but it is only a deception, a deceptive thin veneer of civilization, in much the same way that the bible talks of the deceitfulness of wealth, that kind of 'security' is just an illusion and can so easily be taken away.

But just as Jesus set the example and corrected people when they erred, as did the apostles, it does also seem to be the role of husband as priest in the household to also to gently correct his wife and teach her God's ways, by word and example. She is not always right, in other words, probably a lot of the time she is right, but not always. ;) We have lost the whole idea of correction in both church and home, due to political correctness......to our detriment. Women have weaknesses and tendencies that we need not to be permitted to rule over us, for example, in this society we might tend to want to over-feather our nests in this life, just one example that comes to mind off the bat.....for some reason. ;) That can stem from being too anxious to please, as we women can tend to be, but husband can help put the brakes on that with reassurance and teaching about not being covetous, about being content with such as we have, and that neither God nor husband is worried about having the home look as polished as people of the world. That's just one example.......hard to explain, but it's like if the husband steps up and takes the responsibility for things like that, the wife feels covered and not so open to potential criticism of her home-making. But then again, it's up to the wife to submit to him doing that, and with this world teaching women to be like men, and that submission is weakness and abdicating of power, etc, it can be challenging.........time, patience and prayer are needed.......it's not easy to put the toothpaste back into the tube once it's been squeezed out........but thankfully nothing is impossible with God.
 
Upvote 0

HeLeadethMe

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
417
368
64
Toronto
✟32,827.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's truly not about who is superior, men or women, and both men and women can have individual faults in spades. Bible says neither one is without need of the other. But isn't it much more about Godly order........as both men and women, husbands and wives, in how we relate to one another, we are to demonstrate the loveliness of the nature of Christ.......who was and is both pure and true. Jesus was in submission to the Father, but He demonstrated and still does, headship and priestly authority over His people. His submission and humility was a strength, as well as being righteous and lovely, and His authority and headship was not about having status and power, but always it was for the good of others and for the glory of the Father. Self-less, in every way.
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Words have meanings.
This is my point exactly. If we take it literal, a female can not be a Son, a female must submit to a male, and a female should not speak in church. But if we try to look for the meanings of these passages, they come to life. We pick and choose what to take literal and what not to...all based on our carnal minds.....which cannot understand the things of the spirit.

I have no problem with taking things literal. I personally dont feel that i am superior or inferior to a female...and I am not sure that our spirits have a gender.

Love the Lord with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself....I dont see how any marriage or relationship could go wrong when these two commandments are followed.......no extra instructions needed....
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is my point exactly. If we take it literal, a female can not be a Son, a female must submit to a male, and a female should not speak in church. But if we try to look for the meanings of these passages, they come to life. We pick and choose what to take literal and what not to...all based on our carnal minds.....which cannot understand the things of the spirit.

I have no problem with taking things literal. I personally dont feel that i am superior or inferior to a female...and I am not sure that our spirits have a gender.

Love the Lord with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself....I dont see how any marriage or relationship could go wrong when these two commandments are followed.......no extra instructions needed....
But God believes extra instructions are needed, or He would not have included extra instructions in the Bible- for both husbands and wives.

I am unmarried, but would reckon that love for your husband or wife is something more than loving your neighbor.
 
Upvote 0