GOD HAS A PLAN FOR YOU?

[GodLovesCats]

I seem to be getting both ends of the spectrum in responses here. That is, if I'm interpreting you correctly. I'm taking you to mean that God is completely in control of our lives including the choices we make. Which could mean that God does indeed create people for the purpose of ending up in hell. No?

Complete nonsense. Why in heaven would our all-loving Creator (God) make people to send them to hell?

God gave us all free will. He created us with many different skills - writing, gardening, cooking, etc. So as people grow up and discover what they can and can't do their purposes in life become clear whether they believe in free will or destiny.

I know my purpose in life is writing very specific books now, but did not know it immediately.

 

[Saint JOHN]

Yes God has a plan and YOU have a CHOICE to follow (with everlasting joy peace love etc) or reject and do your own thing ( confusion ,pain ,misery etc);

Mt 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


how to get there as always ... (Gods way)

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent baby's cant .. man made;
Baptism ... Greek word means dip immerse, submerge etc, symbol of burial.
Receive the Holy Spirit (contact with God FOR REAL) only God can give;

and you know you've got it right because just as in the book of acts (the starting of the church) you will be given a pure language to commune with God.

JESUS SAID (warning his disciples against hypocrites, wanna be and play actors)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

package deal ,so others know you are what you say Christ ones.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I am listening to an audiobook now about how a (literally) huge lie became the catalyst for two Canadians saving a lot of farm animals. The book does make me wonder why God, who hates all lies, would use one for that purpose. But if someone was offered a 6-week old commercial pig instead of a 6-month old mini-pig that had been spayed, of course he would not consider it. Could lying actually be part of His plan even though the Bible is very clear that dishonesty is a sin?

The fact he uses sin (no, not just, sin, but...) to accomplish his plan is one of the most heart-tearing things about God --to me, anyway-- because sin is the only thing that can actually cause God harm. This shows his great mercy and patience towards us.

I see it as an amazing phenomenon that we weak, stupid, ignorant, self-centered believers are used, when we present the gospel all wrong, yet others of the same ilk are drawn to Christ through our efforts. His patience extends to our foolish praise, our self-important doctrines, and so on.

I see it as astounding that he would take his time with us, holding us like petulant infants, all for the purpose of turning us in his own time into that particular member of the Body that he had in mind from the beginning.

He drinks up our sin like water, and doesn't hold it against us for the pain we caused him. And Christ who took our sin knew it would be this bad. WE killed the Son of God, and God planned it from the beginning to be that way, for the praise of his own glory --even for our sakes.

Forgiven: Religious Canvas Wall Hanging by Thomas Blackshear | The Black Art Depot

 

[GodLovesCats]

I didn't realize that Bible references would be automatically linked here. I'll have to figure out how to enter the passage references correctly as it linked to the wrong spot in my initial post. In James 3 2:17 he says, "Faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless." This seems to contradict EPH 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I never liked the version used on this site anyway and bookmarked Bible Hub, where I can read any Bible version I want. The verse numbers are links on chapter pages. You can do it here:

Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages

If good works were the key to entering heaven, nobody would need to know God is real to get there.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Im not disagreeing with James at all. James said these people have faith, your the one saying they don’t. So your the one disagreeing with James my friend not me. The Greek word translated to “in” can mean in, by, or with, etc.

The notion that one who can be cut off who is 'in' Christ, means that the Elect can lose their salvation is not taught. James says faith without works is dead --this means it is not salvific faith.

Strangely enough, Reformed Doctrine gets hit from both sides with the use of this text! Not only do they often get the use you put it to, that the Elect CAN lose their salvation, but also hear OSAS misused (and Calvinism blamed for it) to say that one need not works if one is saved. They hear, "After all, the Elect are going to Heaven anyway, according to you, so why should they bother to obey or do what is right. It's automatic!"

 

[John Mullally]

If God has a plan for your life, He would make it happen by leading you - and He does!

Romans 6:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.​

 

[martymonster]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

God does have a plan for you, and yes that is supported by scripture, but the overwhelming majority of people who say that, don’t actually believe it.

 

[Aussie Pete]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

God surely has a plan for everyone and it does not include the lake of fire. However, that is plan A. Plan B is when people foolishly reject plan A. Plan B means the lake of fire. No born again believer entirely misses plan A. However, it is possible to miss out on fulfilling plan A to a greater or lesser degree. God gives us the choice. That is as plain as day from God's word. It is really simple. Every individual is the sum total of what he/she chooses to be.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The notion that one who can be cut off who is 'in' Christ, means that the Elect can lose their salvation is not taught. James says faith without works is dead --this means it is not salvific faith.

Strangely enough, Reformed Doctrine gets hit from both sides with the use of this text! Not only do they often get the use you put it to, that the Elect can lose their salvation, but also hear OSAS misused (and Calvinism blamed for it) to say that one need not works if one is saved. They hear, "After all, the Elect are going to Heaven anyway, according to you, so why should they bother to obey or do what is right. It's automatic!"

I never understood this "the Elect" thing. God wants everyone to love Him as He loved them. He does not tell some people to join him and others they are not invited, obviously. Why would anyone believe certain people are chosen and the rest are automatically sent to hell? Needless to say this is one reason I am not a Calvinist or Reformed Baptist.

OTOH I will never accept the "once saved always saved" doctrine because we all have the free will to stop believing the Bible. God will never leave you, but will not prevent you from leaving Him either. (Obviously I do not recommend switching religions.) The problem is people read God promised He will give all people anything they want, so they will not take "no" for an answer.

"Faith without works is dead" implies I need to act on my faith for it to exist and earn entry to Heaven. Of course that is not true; I already received God's grace through faith before learning the text. So what can "faith" mean in this sentence, if it is not for salvation? Why must we work to have faith?

 

[Mark Quayle]

I never understood this "the Elect" thing. God wants everyone to love Him as He loved them. He does not tell some people to join him and others they are not invited, obviously. Why would anyone believe certain people are chosen and the rest are automatically sent to hell? Needless to say this is one reason I am not a Calvinist or Reformed Baptist.

Main reason to believe it is because the Bible says so. Next reason is because it is the only way that ultimately fits logic --no "chance", no "limited autonomy/ sovereignty", etc. Next way is because it absolutely fits experience.

God chooses, according to Scripture --and that, for a specific reason, not to mention the main reason --his own Glory. The Elect are the members (parts, cells?) of the Bride of Christ. This is no haphazard construction. Chance, nor individual (intrinsic) worthiness have any place here.

OTOH I will never accept the "once saved always saved" doctrine because we all have the free will to stop believing the Bible. God will never leave you, but will not prevent you from leaving Him either. (Obviously I do not recommend switching religions.) The problem is people read God promised He will give all people anything they want, so they will not take "no" for an answer.

I personally dislike OSAS because of what it is taken to imply. But there are (at least) two reasons the Elect will not ultimately lose their salvation. One is, as I said above, because God will not fail in his purpose --his use of them. Another is that their very faith is the work of God in them, and not the work of their own will, intellect, integrity, whatever. God cannot fail.

"Faith without works is dead" implies I need to act on my faith for it to exist and earn entry to Heaven. Of course that is not true; I already received God's grace through faith before learning the text. So what can "faith" mean in this sentence, if it is not for salvation? Why must we work to have faith?

Not sure of your meaning by the word, "to", in your last sentence here "Why must we work to have faith?" Purpose with the result: faith? Demonstration of faith?

Anyhow, no, 'faith without works is dead' does not imply you need to do --it implies you WILL do, if you have faith. Therefore, do! lol. Regardless, it is a matter of definition --not of earning anything.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The notion that one who can be cut off who is 'in' Christ, means that the Elect can lose their salvation is not taught. James says faith without works is dead --this means it is not salvific faith.

Strangely enough, Reformed Doctrine gets hit from both sides with the use of this text! Not only do they often get the use you put it to, that the Elect CAN lose their salvation, but also hear OSAS misused (and Calvinism blamed for it) to say that one need not works if one is saved. They hear, "After all, the Elect are going to Heaven anyway, according to you, so why should they bother to obey or do what is right. It's automatic!"

John 15:2 specifically states that people who are in Christ are cut off. As well as Galatians 5:4.

 

[Mark Quayle]

John 15:2 specifically states that people who are in Christ are cut off. As well as Galatians 5:4.

You are repeating yourself.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Complete nonsense. Why in heaven would our all-loving Creator (God) make people to send them to hell?

God gave us all free will. He created us with many different skills - writing, gardening, cooking, etc. So as people grow up and discover what they can and can't do their purposes in life become clear whether they believe in free will or destiny.

I know my purpose in life is writing very specific books now, but did not know it immediately.

You seem to think that the fact that it is complete nonsense to say that God created some people for the specific purpose of sending them to hell, necessarily implies that we have free will. Do you think that?

 

[Jamdoc]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

Proverbs 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God knows who would choose Him and who would reject Him from the beginning. The plan for those who reject Him, is yes, torment in Hell. The evil that they do in the world will be turned towards God's overall plan of redemption somehow, for the good of God's people in the end.
But for themselves.. it doesn't pan out well.

 

[Jamdoc]

God surely has a plan for everyone and it does not include the lake of fire. However, that is plan A. Plan B is when people foolishly reject plan A. Plan B means the lake of fire. No born again believer entirely misses plan A. However, it is possible to miss out on fulfilling plan A to a greater or lesser degree. God gives us the choice. That is as plain as day from God's word. It is really simple. Every individual is the sum total of what he/she chooses to be.

I don't reject God.
but I still missed out on plan A. God crippled me to tell me "no, I don't want you to do that even though i can understand why you'd think it'd be a good thing"
so maybe I'm on plan B, but I don't think it's the lake of fire. Just.. not as good of a plan as the original plan He was trying to guide me to and I wasn't a good listener.
I lack the resources or physical condition to carry out anything I actually have any God given talent for now.. so yeah.. I'm pretty sure I missed it.

 

[Strong in Him]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible?

I've been hearing this for years too - "God has a plan for you/this might not be God's will for you". And I used to feel fearful in case I missed his will or messed up his plan for my life.
But while I believe that God can call us to anything he pleases, and it might be that he calls us to live in certain places or go to a certain church, I don't believe that God has a detailed plan for us and we mess things up if we don't discover and follow it.
I'm not certain that God minds too much whether we choose to become a scientist in a lab or a science teacher, an engineer or a plumber, a teacher or a nurse - I think the important thing is that we belong to him, live for him, be salt and light in the communities that we find ourselves and glorify him by using the gifts that he has given to us and by being the people he has called us to be.

And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell?

Because some people choose not to know, obey, or even think about God -some feel they just don't need/want him.

(But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business.

I don't think hell was designed for humans - I think that God wants all those whom he created in his image, to know him.

What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control.

If God wanted to "control" us at all I think he would have made us like robots, to always worship and love God, never to sin and obey him because we were programmed in that way and could do nothing else.

i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

I had M.E for 18 years.
I don't believe it was sent by God, nor do I believe that I was "destined" to get it. I don't think it was even "chance" that I got it and not my brothers. It was no one's fault, but there were a number of contributing factors - suspected glandular fever as a child, a weakened immune system, a stressful job and series of events.
I believe strongly that God was at work during that time - he didn't send it to teach me stuff or as a punishment, but I learned a lot through it, and what it meant to trust him for strength. I also believe that he answered prayer and healed me, literally overnight, from it.

 

[zoidar]

The notion that one who can be cut off who is 'in' Christ, means that the Elect can lose their salvation is not taught. James says faith without works is dead --this means it is not salvific faith.

Strangely enough, Reformed Doctrine gets hit from both sides with the use of this text! Not only do they often get the use you put it to, that the Elect CAN lose their salvation, but also hear OSAS misused (and Calvinism blamed for it) to say that one need not works if one is saved. They hear, "After all, the Elect are going to Heaven anyway, according to you, so why should they bother to obey or do what is right. It's automatic!"

I know this thread isn't about that, but how do one know one is of the elect? If we can't know with 100% certainty, there is not much use of the teaching that the elect can't fall away.

I think Augustine held to we couldn't know, but I might be wrong.

 

[Neostarwcc]

God has a plan for everyone who walks this earth. Every action in history was foreknown and foreordained by God. The bible supports this all over the place but, I'll make my point in 3 verses. Just take a look at the Lamb's book of life where the saved are contained in its very pages. See Revelation 21:26-27:

26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, 27 but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

The Lamb's book of life was written before time began, before Adam and Eve were created and before any part of the universe was formed. Paul proves this when he wrote his letter to the Ephesians.

Ephesians 1:4

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

And King David when he wrote Psalm 139:16:

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.


The "unsaved" were not chosen by God but their destinies were determined by God from before he formed the Earth. You should not be asking the question, "How is this fair?" you should be on your hands and knees praising God for his grace and mercy.

Why? God didn't have to choose even one of us, every last one of us deserves God's wrath and punishment. I do, you do, we all do. God showed extreme love and mercy for his people when while we were yet sinners? God DIED for us so that we could be reconciled TO him. He didn't die for Satan or his demons who equally deserve the same punishment we do for the same crime but, he died for US because he chose us, he loves us more than anything in the whole world and he foreordained us and took us out of the world and said "You are mine."

He also didn't die for one person, twenty, a thousand, or even a million people. He died for an innumerable amount of people from across the globe. From every tribe, people, and nation.

If that doesn't show God's love, I don't know what could.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are repeating yourself.

Well your ignoring the verses I quoted.

The notion that one who can be cut off who is 'in' Christ, means that the Elect can lose their salvation is not taught.

I’m sure your familiar with John 6:44.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

These people who fail to remain in Christ have received grace from The Father otherwise they could never repent and come to Christ to begin with. They were offered salvation and accepted it then later fell away just like Jesus said some will in His parable of the soils. Most Calvinists will say that these people are tares but tares are planted by the evil one and no one can come to Christ unless The Father has drawn them not satan. Tares are false professors who were never actually in Christ like Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7:21-27. He never knew them. There’s a difference between those whom Christ says are in Him and those who never knew Him. They are not the same group.

 

[zoidar]

If that doesn't show God's love, I don't know what could.

Maybe that God bore the sins of everyone? I think that is the greatest love.