GOD HAS A PLAN FOR YOU?

[QvQ]

[

Thanks for the response, QvQ. I' m taking you to mean that God doesn't have a plan for you, at least not in the sense that he controls our actions. James Allen- known for writing "As a Man Thinketh" also wrote a book called "Mastery of Destiny". He doesn't come off as antichrist, but also doesn't appear to be Christian. Anyway, he suggest that everything is a result of cause and effect. You initiate the cause, but you can't control the effect. In many cases the desired effect will be achieved, but that's not in your control. As you say, there are consequences for good and bad actions. Allen suggests that the consequences/effects are governed by the laws of the universe. "Man has all power to act, but his power ends with the act committed........Thus man's power is limited to, and his blessedness or misery is determined by, his own conduct." This makes a certain amount of sense to me as it seems there are obviously laws in this universe. People are born, people die, babies cry, two plus two is four. These things don't change regardless of your actions. But every action we take will produce an effect within these universal laws, be it good or bad. The laundry ain't gonna do itself, you have to take the action to do it. Reading/referencing James Allen evokes that 'ol Catholic guilt in me because his views don't exactly line up with Christianity. After all, God and Jesus would prove themselves by breaking the laws of the universe. We call them miracles. But I haven't seen any miracles in my lifetime so I could find myself buying into the idea that God himself created these universal laws and it's up to us to work with them. God could be saying, "here's your world, I gave you a brain, use it". And in the end your blessedness or misery will be a result of your own conduct, not of fate. Can't this work for us, or is it completely sacreligous?
Heh-heh. Btw, I got a chuckle that you use the phrase, "in real life".

Very good analysis of my opinion! God creates the opportunity. I seem to be created in a set of circumstances with a limited amount of options. Doing the laundry requires soap, water, clothes and God or fate provides the opportunity or the necessity for those items. My reaction to those items is limited to not wearing clothes or being dirty or washing. Do I really have a choice? Again, limited. Can't go to work dirty or the store naked, so is fate/circumstance compelling me, again what free will?
Creating your own hell is disturbing the Peace of the Lord in your own house. If I don't wash the clothes, I will end up unemployed, most likely, poor and diseased. I mean, lice are hell, actually.
I take care of whatever is in my power or under my hand to maintain it in good order, Peace with the Lord. The Bible said we are stewards and that is washing the clothes, soothing the baby, taking care of business with all the meager and limited power within our means.
First, a person has to know what the Peace of the Lord is. Second, love God and His creation enough to cooperate in maintaining that Peace.

 

[GodLovesCats]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

This post reminds me of the song "Turn Turn Turn" by The Byrds, which is based on Ecclessiastes 3:1-8. I know it does not really apply to your question though, being about a specific time for everything, not why God made each of us in the first place.

The Bible certainly does say everyone has a purpose in life. Jeremiah 1:5 is an example. God conceived a boy specifically to make him a prophet, not just let Jeremiah decide he wanted to be a prophet.

 

[aiki]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible?

Do you mean a particular plan for each one of us? Like, God's plan for Bob is that he should be a lawyer, husband to Cheryl, a father of five children, a hobby gardener, drive a blue Chevy Suburban, and serve as a Sunday School teacher in his church? Or do you mean God's general will for all of us: Love God with all you are, love your neighbor as you love yourself, live a holy life, honor Christ, etc?

In the record of Scripture, when God had a particular plan for someone, He was typically very direct and plain about communicating that plan to them. Think Gideon, or Abraham, or Moses, or Elijah, or Paul, for examples. God had particular plans for them - but not, though, at every turn of their entire lives. And we don't read in the OT that God acted so directly with everybody else in Israel, do we? Not every Christian in the NT had a Damascus Road experience, did they? So, God may have some particular thing or things He may want you to do, and if He does, He'll make it very plain to you what they are (if Scripture is anything to go by). Generally, though, I think He has given us all the commands, principles, wisdom and truth of His word - His general will for us all - by which we are to navigate through life.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
Psalms 119:104-105
Psalms 1

And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone.

Free will. (In my view, what is known as soft libertarianism.) No one truly loves God who has been programmed or compelled by Him to do so. When God gives us the capacity to truly love Him, that is, to choose freely to love Him, He necessarily also gives us the capacity not to do so. And when we choose to love ourselves rather than God, well, the result is sin, judgment and death (eternally in Hell, for many). God certainly doesn't desire this for anyone, but He will not compel anyone into loving Him. That's a nonsensical idea, on its face.

What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

In an overarching sense, God controls everything. That is, however chaotic things may seem from our perspective, everything is working to the end God wants. But just as a master chessplayer doesn't need to order everything I might do in a game of chess with him in order to win against me, God doesn't need to ordain every little thing I do in order to see His purposes fulfilled in and through my life.

www.soteriology101.com
www.reasonablefaith.com (search Molinism)

 

[BNR32FAN]

James says good works are necessary for what? See, the notion that James is saying that good works are necessary to save anyone, is not accurate. Faith alone saves, but if there are no works, the faith is not real.

Only a person with a true faith can be in Christ and in John 15:2 Jesus said that The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. So evidently a person who has faith can fail to do good works.

 

[fhansen]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

Unlike a dog or a cat, who always fulfill their purpose, always doing God's will in their little way while unconscious of that fact, or like a flower that blossoms into it's full purpose and destiny without playing a part in that event, a human is like a flower that does play a role in determining whether or not it will blossom. While we don't create the plan, and while we don't define or even know what our blossoming will ultimately consist of or look like, we can stubbornly resist and refuse God's plan, and never reach the potential, the perfection, He created us for.

 

[zoidar]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

From one aspect I think God's plan is the same for everyone, to lead us to repentance and faith in Christ (John 3:16). The problem is we don't always do what God calls us to, so there will be loss. God always wants the best for us, and that is not always what we by worldy standards like to call "the best".

Only a person with a true faith can be in Christ and in John 15:2 Jesus said that The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. So evidently a person who has faith can fail to do good works.

We can be called for a purpose, then because of money, fame, women/men, cowardness or simply worldly love fail to live God's purpose for our life. It can be a scary thought, but well worth to remember.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Yes, God has a plan for us. But He didn't create us as pre-programmed robots who can do only His will and follow only His plan. He created us with the gift of free will, the right and ability to make our own choices. He clearly described His plan, the way to follow it, and the result of following it or rejecting it. But He allows us to accept His teaching and His instructions, or reject them.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Only a person with a true faith can be in Christ and in John 15:2 Jesus said that The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. So evidently a person who has faith can fail to do good works.

Not sure what your point is.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure what your point is.

You said if there are no works their faith isn’t real but Christ said that not all people who are in Him do good works. My point is that even people with a true faith may not do good works. Faith doesn’t guarantee good works.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I didn't realize that Bible references would be automatically linked here. I'll have to figure out how to enter the passage references correctly as it linked to the wrong spot in my initial post. In James 3 2:17 he says" faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless". This seems to contradict EPH 2:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

It is no contradiction. James does not say salvation is a result of works. To say, "faith by itself is not enough" begs the question --not enough for what? James is not saying it is not enough for salvation. He is saying that if the faith happens without works, it is dead faith.

 

[aiki]

I find that those who make works essential to salvation have conflated the inevitability of good works with the necessity of them. By this I mean, they assume that since good works are inevitable in the life of a spiritually-healthy Christian that those works must therefore be necessary to being a Christian. But this is no more true for the Christian than it would be for an apple tree that is not producing apples. Apples are inevitable in a healthy apple tree, but apples are not necessary to the apple tree being an apple tree.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks for the reply, Mark. I seem to be getting both ends of the spectrum in responses here. That is, if I'm interpreting you correctly. I'm taking you to mean that God is completely in control of our lives including the choices we make. Which could mean that God does indeed create people for the purpose of ending up in hell. No?
( So God doesn't love me nor does he have a wonderful plan for my life? Heh-heh, you seem to agree with the "God has plan for you" concept, but you don't agree at all with the sentiment that usually accompanies the phrase)

You are correct that I mean "God is completely in control of our lives including the choices we make". But that does not translate to "God does indeed create [some] people for the purpose of ending up in hell." --And by that, I don't mean to say that he doesn't have that as part of his purpose for them, but that he has other uses for them: (See Romans 9 about the Potter's vessels.)

You are correct that I don't believe in all the sentiment that goes with the claim, "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life." --not only is it misleading, but I am left with, "--wonderful for whom?"

The Bible even has some passages showing God's hatred for sinners!

But to me the quickest way to resolve all this is to remember that this life is not for this life.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Anyway, he suggest that everything is a result of cause and effect. You initiate the cause, but you can't control the effect.

I haven't read him, but look at the logic here. If everything (short of First Cause, of course) is a result of cause and effect, you do NOT initiate the cause. You do indeed cause, though, (and maybe that is all you meant.) --most effects are not dead-end; they also cause further effects.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I find that those who make works essential to salvation have conflated the inevitability of good works with the necessity of them. By this I mean, they assume that since good works are inevitable in the life of spiritually-healthy Christian that those works must therefore be necessary to being a Christian. But this is no more true for the Christian than it would be for an apple tree that is not producing apples. Apples are inevitable in a healthy apple tree, but apples are not necessary to the apple tree being an apple tree.

Well put

 

[Mark Quayle]

You said if there are no works their faith isn’t real but Christ said that not all people who are in Him do good works. My point is that even people with a true faith may not do good works. Faith doesn’t guarantee good works.

So you disagree with James? "Faith without works is dead." You should do a study on Greek prepositions, re the word often translated 'in', as in, "in me".

 

[Maria Billingsley]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

Welcome! Your right. If God has a plan for everyone, then a lot of things would not really make sense like, God planned for one person to be saved and not the other. This is not in God's character as His wish would be that all be saved. This requires one to accept the free gift of salvation.
Be blessed.

 

[fhansen]

I find that those who make works essential to salvation have conflated the inevitability of good works with the necessity of them. By this I mean, they assume that since good works are inevitable in the life of spiritually-healthy Christian that those works must therefore be necessary to being a Christian. But this is no more true for the Christian than it would be for an apple tree that is not producing apples. Apples are inevitable in a healthy apple tree, but apples are not necessary to the apple tree being an apple tree.

There is no such inevitability as I see it. We're enabled to do the right thing now-primarily because we're empowered by the Spirit to love as we should as we turn to Him in faith. But love, even though a gift, is necessarily also a human choice or else its not really love at all. And it's a daily choice that we can grow and become even more confirmed in-or, alternatively, we can fail to love as we should, as we now can. And that choice, to love, is what gives it value and worth. Love, the image of God we're to be transformed into, is what gives man value and worth. That's God's work in us, that which defines and brings us into the perfection- our teleios- that He planned for us.

 

[kind]

to be concise, this verse comes to mind so I share!

Jeremiah 29:11
Amplified Bible

11 For I know the plans and thoughts that I have for you,’ says the Lord, ‘plans for peace and well-being and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.

also, we could not handle all of God's Blessings at once,
we would most combust and, Love How powerful He Truly is above All!

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you disagree with James? "Faith without works is dead." You should do a study on Greek prepositions, re the word often translated 'in', as in, "in me".

Im not disagreeing with James at all. James said these people have faith, your the one saying they don’t. So your the one disagreeing with James my friend not me. The Greek word translated to “in” can mean in, by, or with, etc.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Sin is all in God's plan. It doesn't look like what Christians nowadays seem to want it to look like. Ask Hosea about his wife.

I am listening to an audiobook now about how a (literally) huge lie became the catalyst for two Canadians saving a lot of farm animals. The book does make me wonder why God, who hates all lies, would use one for that purpose. But if someone was offered a 6-week old commercial pig instead of a 6-month old mini-pig that had been spayed, of course he would not consider it. Could lying actually be part of His plan even though the Bible is very clear that dishonesty is a sin?