GOD HAS A PLAN FOR YOU?

[Basil the Great]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

The question that you pose is an interesting one and I am undecided on the answer., However, I am going to surprise some here by relating a story about my late great uncle. He was a very devout Baptist. Still, he once told me that he felt it was fine for someone to become a pastor, if that is what they desired. However, he did not believe that God called anyone into the ministry. He did not say whether his premise applied to all areas of our lives or not. If pressed, I would say that God probably does not have specific plans for our lives, but I leave the door open for such a possibility.

As for salvation, I certainly do not believe that God totally decides who will and who will not be saved. If this is true, then we are but puppets on a string.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I know this thread isn't about that, but how do one know one is of the elect? If we can't know with 100% certainty, there is not much use of the teaching that the elect can't fall away.

I think Augustine held to we couldn't know, but I might be wrong.

In one sense, we can't know. That is, mere logic does not assure that one is of the Elect. I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but in my case, the question has taken a far back seat to the issue of God's work in my life, and even more, to the absolute sure logic of the fact that God not only will accomplish all he set out to do, but that what he is doing, he is doing FOR HIS OWN SAKE, and so, thus, none of the Elect are lost.

The notion, however, that this security means that the supposed Elect need not work or care is bogus! It could even be argued that the very Perseverance of the Saints, (the P in TULIP), the 'keeping' of the Elect, is accomplished by the continued pursuit of Christ by the believer (which to my mind is also monergistically the work of God, even though it consumes me -- my will, faith and obedience, in the same way that salvation involves my will, faith and obedience).

 

[nolidad]

God has a plan for you. I hear this as a Christian all the time. Is this supported in the Bible? Do you believe this is so? And if it is so, why would anyone end up in Hell? Doesn’t seem that would be God’s plan for anyone. (But then I guess at least some people would have to go there, otherwise Hell would be out of business. But the need for a Hell could be a topic for another discussion.) What I’m interested in here is the distinction between what God controls in our lives and what we control. i.e.- is “The Hand of Fate” God, or is it simply just that- the hand of fate?

God has a plan for His children, not for those who are not!

Gods will is the same for every believer, but His plan is unique to each and every one who is a believer.
Philippians 2:12-14
King James Version

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


God has no relationship with th elost so there is no plan for them.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Well your ignoring the verses I quoted.




I’m sure your familiar with John 6:44.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

These people who fail to remain in Christ have received grace from The Father otherwise they could never repent and come to Christ to begin with. They were offered salvation and accepted it then later fell away just like Jesus said some will in His parable of the soils. Most Calvinists will say that these people are tares but tares are planted by the evil one and no one can come to Christ unless The Father has drawn them not satan. Tares are false professors who were never actually in Christ like Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7:21-27. He never knew them. There’s a difference between those whom Christ says are in Him and those who never knew Him. They are not the same group.

Then, supposing you are right, are you saying these who 'fall away' are of the Elect? I.e., are you saying they are actually saved, since they are 'in Christ'? If so, does 'cut off' mean no longer saved? No longer of the Elect? Is the Bride going to be minus a few parts, or does God keep a few spares around? --Or are these the same as those who he says will be saved, yet though as by fire, whose works will be burned?

 

[zoidar]

In one sense, we can't know. That is, mere logic does not assure that one is of the Elect. I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but in my case, the question has taken a far back seat to the issue of God's work in my life, and even more, to the absolute sure logic of the fact that God not only will accomplish all he set out to do, but that what he is doing, he is doing FOR HIS OWN SAKE, and so, thus, none of the Elect are lost.

The notion, however, that this security means that the supposed Elect need not work or care is bogus! It could even be argued that the very Perseverance of the Saints, (the P in TULIP), the 'keeping' of the Elect, is accomplished by the continued pursuit of Christ by the believer (which to my mind is also monergistically the work of God, even though it consumes me -- my will, faith and obedience, in the same way that salvation involves my will, faith and obedience).

Thanks for your honest response! I'm sure you got a better understanding than me on the Reformed view how the elect are saved, concerning obedience etc. Won't argue with you there.

I'm undecided on election. I can buy the Lutheran view as I understand it that all the elect will be saved, but they don't teach perserverance of the saints. The main problem I have with the TULIP is LA, the rest isn't that much of a problem to me.

 

[zoidar]

God has a plan for His children, not for those who are not!

Gods will is the same for every believer, but His plan is unique to each and every one who is a believer.
Philippians 2:12-14
King James Version

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


God has no relationship with th elost so there is no plan for them.

Don't you think God had a plan for you before you were His child?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then, supposing you are right, are you saying these who 'fall away' are of the Elect? I.e., are you saying they are actually saved, since they are 'in Christ'? If so, does 'cut off' mean no longer saved? No longer of the Elect? Is the Bride going to be minus a few parts, or does God keep a few spares around? --Or are these the same as those who he says will be saved, yet though as by fire, whose works will be burned?

No the elect refers to those who will are written in the book of life. The book of life only contains the names of those who will repent and endure to the end because these names were written according to The Father’s foreknowledge of those who would abide in Christ. Those who failed to abide in Christ lost the salvation they would’ve received had they remained in Him and as a result were not written in the book of life before creation.

 

[Strong in Him]

God has no relationship with th elost so there is no plan for them.

Except for his plan to save them.
He created mankind in his image, Genesis 1:26-27 and put his breath into them, Genesis 2:7.
Jesus died for sinners, Romans 5:8.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You seem to think that the fact that it is complete nonsense to say that God created some people for the specific purpose of sending them to hell, necessarily implies that we have free will. Do you think that?

I think it is nonsense that the reason God would make a person is to send that person to hell.

If we did not have free will, nobody would ever sin. The first sin would not have happened. But He makes people to execute His plan for them. I had a cat who was definitely a match made in heaven, so I know it is not limited to humans.

 

[nolidad]

Don't you think God had a plan for you before you were His child?

Yep and given He is omniscient ands SCripture says I was elect from the foundation of the world we have that paradox that I was known by God before I was even born, yet had to wait in time to realize what God already knew and declared for me.

 

[nolidad]

Except for his plan to save them.
He created mankind in his image, Genesis 1:26-27 and put his breath into them, Genesis 2:7.
Jesus died for sinners, Romans 5:8.

Well if Jesus planned to save all sinners- He failed for even He said the super majority go to the lake off ire for eternity.

Yes Gods desire is none should persih, but the most do!

His plan is for only those He foreknows.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think it is nonsense that the reason God would make a person is to send that person to hell.

If we did not have free will, nobody would ever sin. The first sin would not have happened. But He makes people to execute His plan for them. I had a cat who was definitely a match made in heaven, so I know it is not limited to humans.

I agree it is nonsense to say "the reason God would make a person is to send that person to hell". I did not say otherwise. It makes no sense that the Almighty would bother to do something for the sake of such a thing. Even if he was cruelly intentioned, what would he stand to gain by such a thing? -- I can hear him now, "Boring!"

The same thing you say about free will here, can be said about mere choice. You have proven nothing.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Yep and given He is omniscient ands SCripture says I was elect from the foundation of the world we have that paradox that I was known by God before I was even born, yet had to wait in time to realize what God already knew and declared for me.

How is that a paradox? I don't understand.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No the elect refers to those who will are written in the book of life. The book of life only contains the names of those who will repent and endure to the end because these names were written according to The Father’s foreknowledge of those who would abide in Christ. Those who failed to abide in Christ lost the salvation they would’ve received had they remained in Him and as a result were not written in the book of life before creation.

"...would've received...", you say. So you sound like me here. They were not actually saved!

 

[nolidad]

How is that a paradox? I don't understand.

par·a·dox
/ˈperəˌdäks/


noun

1. a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.

Teh paradox is that I have been a child of God since the foundation of the world, though I did not enter that until a certain point in time. both are true though contradictory.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"...would've received...", you say. So you sound like me here. They were not actually saved!

Saved is a current status.

“And although you were previously alienated and hostile in attitude, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His body of flesh through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


Salvation is the promise we hope to attain.

“Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time revealed His word in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior;”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

A person is saved so long as he abides in Christ. When that person turns away from Christ he will lose his salvation unless he repents.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks for your honest response! I'm sure you got a better understanding than me on the Reformed view how the elect are saved, concerning obedience etc. Won't argue with you there.

I'm undecided on election. I can buy the Lutheran view as I understand it that all the elect will be saved, but they don't teach perserverance of the saints. The main problem I have with the TULIP is LA, the rest isn't that much of a problem to me.

Perhaps it is time for you to consider a study of Scripture apart from Lutheran influences and presuppositions. Or anyone else's, for that matter. My study of Scripture was a long hard road's travel, propelled by frustration at my inability to do what I knew I should as a believer, and what I desperately desired to be, as one of His own. I did not know it was basically Reformed or Calvinistic, as I had never studied those.

You have no doubt heard that the Reformed dislike the term Limited Atonement as it gives the wrong impression to many people. We prefer "particular redemption" to make the logical point. It fits the rest of TULIP and it fits Scripture. To me it is logical, since God is not fooled, nor ignorant, nor did he create as a mere experiment, to find out what was going to happen. God and Chance, do not mix. Instead, God is direct, purposed, and by no means going to fail in any way to accomplish all he set out to do. God does not depend on chance, nor on the merits of free agents; he does not give up sovereignty --the terminology is self-contradictory. Nothing God does is wasted.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Saved is a current status.

Like the old song, "There's a new name, written down in pencil."

 

[BNR32FAN]

Like the old song, "There's a new name, written down in pencil."

When we’re the people reconciled in Colossians 1:22? When we’re they to be presented before God holy and blameless? Later if they continued firmly in their faith of the gospel.

 

[zoidar]

Perhaps it is time for you to consider a study of Scripture apart from Lutheran influences and presuppositions. Or anyone else's, for that matter. My study of Scripture was a long hard road's travel, propelled by frustration at my inability to do what I knew I should as a believer, and what I desperately desired to be, as one of His own. I did not know it was basically Reformed or Calvinistic, as I had never studied those.

You have no doubt heard that the Reformed dislike the term Limited Atonement as it gives the wrong impression to many people. We prefer "particular redemption" to make the logical point. It fits the rest of TULIP and it fits Scripture. To me it is logical, since God is not fooled, nor ignorant, nor did he create as a mere experiment, to find out what was going to happen. God and Chance, do not mix. Instead, God is direct, purposed, and by no means going to fail in any way to accomplish all he set out to do. God does not depend on chance, nor on the merits of free agents; he does not give up sovereignty --the terminology is self-contradictory. Nothing God does is wasted.

I don't believe anything God does is wasted either. I don't think Jesus could have suffered less if he redeemed fewer people. I think Jesus represents man, and suffered death of man. All sin springs from one man, one root sin. Jesus conquered sin, not just many sins, but all sin through cutting off the root (the devil), by taking the punishment of sin.

I try my best to study scripture without any presuppositions. Actually I've done that for most of my time as a Christian. That's why I'm neither Lutheran, Reformed, Catholic or Orthodox ... Just Protestant or Christian if you like. Just recently I have tried to understand more about the different churches, what they believe and why they do.

I didn't know Reformed dislike the term LA, but it's the same as PR? But the TULIP stems from Reformed churches right?