God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[Blessedj01]

Your people?

You seem to be confused. I'm not here for you at all.

Christianforums.com.

For about 7 years you have chosen to associate with people whom a forum was designed for, that you find "obscene" and you declare it your mission to debate with "because they believe it." Again, congratulations. While you are welcome here, you have picked a strange place to come if you are so badly offended by what most of these people believe.

And you tell me you're not here for me, as you address me over and over again. You have a funny way of showing nonchalance.

 

[Blessedj01]

"It's so sad that you're rejecting the great reward God is offering you. All you have to do is abandon false teaching and embrace Islam. That's it! It's so easy. And yet you want to remain in enmity with God and reject the great reward he is offering you!"

I'm not in enmity with God, I have reconciliation with Him through Christ.

These childish stunts won't make Jesus go away, Archaeopteryx. He still reigns on the Throne of the Most High.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Christianforums.com.

For about 7 years you have chosen to associate with people whom a forum was designed for, that you find "obscene" and you declare it your mission to debate with "because they believe it." Again, congratulations. While you are welcome here, you have picked a strange place to come if you are so badly offended by what most of these people believe.

First, I joined this forum as a Christian. Second, not all Christians believe in the doctrine of Hell, at least not in the way you conceive of it. Third, I'm not here because I'm offended. I'm here because I enjoy the conversation.

And you tell me you're not here for me, as you address me over and over again. You have a funny way of showing nonchalance.

Roughly less than 10 posts in response to you, out of 13,448. As I said, I'm not here for you.

I'm not in enmity with God, I have reconciliation with Him through Christ.

These childish stunts won't make Jesus go away, Archaeopteryx. He still reigns on the Throne of the Most High.

I'm only giving your comments the treatment they deserve. If you don't feel compelled to convert to Islam when a Muslim tells you that you will receive a "great reward" for embracing his religion, then what leads you to believe that making similar claims about your own religion will be sufficient to sway anyone?

 

[Noxot]

There's no possibility of God not knowing anything. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think he entertains Himself by remaining ignorant about certain things either.

God does not like to hear certain things. the Holy Spirit does not dwell with the wicked but with the righteous. now since God is three personas, explain to me why he can't both know all things and know some things and not know other things?

that is what I said and I would very much say that the Holy Spirit does not know evil. this would mean that all the language of the bible that seem like crude human things really have a deeper and far more innocent spirit in them.

so yeah I could say that God is not ignorant in some sense. but remember that "with God all things are possible"

the Holy Spirit is the tree of life, not the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Luke 13:23-28 (YLT)
and a certain one said to him, `Sir, are those saved few?' and he said unto them, `Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able; from the time the master of the house may have risen up, and may have shut the door, and ye may begin without to stand, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, lord, open to us, and he answering shall say to you, I have not known you whence ye are, then ye may begin to say, We did eat before thee, and did drink, and in our broad places thou didst teach; and he shall say, I say to you, I have not known you whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of the unrighteousness. `There shall be there the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, when ye may see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the reign of God, and yourselves being cast out without;

obviously if someone could understand the underlying spiritual reality of this parable and the inner workings of the Trinity... they would be forced to change their views and understanding about God and how he judges people, what hell is, what the kingdom of God is, ectect.

 

[Blessedj01]

First, I joined this forum as a Christian.

Well, it's sad to hear you felt the need to leave the family.

However, what you're engaged in now is a different thing.

Second, not all Christians believe in the doctrine of Hell, at least not in the way you conceive of it.

I think there's a certain forum for those discussions.

Third, I'm not here because I'm offended. I'm here because I enjoy the conversation.

You said you found my beliefs "obscene."

obscene
əbˈsiːn/
adjective
adjective: obscene
(of the portrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency.

Roughly less than 10 posts in response to you, out of 13,448. As I said, I'm not here for you.

Then why are we still talking, why are you trying to convert me to Islam for instance?

I'm only giving your comments the treatment they deserve. If you don't feel compelled to convert to Islam when a Muslim tells you that you will receive a "great reward" for embracing his religion, then what leads you to believe that making similar claims about your own religion will be sufficient to sway anyone?

I haven't told anyone they shall receive "a great reward." I have told them about the love of Jesus Christ. I responded only after you claimed that God planned our damnation. It was you who put forward an unloving perspective of God, not me.

Also, frankly, if you think that "deserves" your contempt, then you need to look back 7 years and ask yourself why you still come here. If it's purely to "give me what I deserve," then you should examine your motivations.

 

[Blessedj01]

God does not like to hear certain things. the Holy Spirit does not dwell with the wicked but with the righteous. now since God is three personas, explain to me why he can't both know all things and know some things and not know other things?

that is what I said and I would very much say that the Holy Spirit does not know evil. this would mean that all the language of the bible that seem like crude human things really have a deeper and far more innocent spirit in them.

so yeah I could say that God is not ignorant in some sense. but remember that "with God all things are possible"

the Holy Spirit is the tree of life, not the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Luke 13:23-28 (YLT)
and a certain one said to him, `Sir, are those saved few?' and he said unto them, `Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able; from the time the master of the house may have risen up, and may have shut the door, and ye may begin without to stand, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, lord, open to us, and he answering shall say to you, I have not known you whence ye are, then ye may begin to say, We did eat before thee, and did drink, and in our broad places thou didst teach; and he shall say, I say to you, I have not known you whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of the unrighteousness. `There shall be there the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, when ye may see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the reign of God, and yourselves being cast out without;

obviously if someone could understand the underlying spiritual reality of this parable they would be forced to change their views and understanding about God and how he judges people, what hell is, what the kingdom of God is, ectect.

God knows about evil, that does not mean He has experienced it first hand by doing it. God does not like to hear certain things, that does not mean he does not hear them.

 

[Noxot]

God knows about evil, that does not mean He has experienced it first hand by doing it. God does not like to hear certain things, that does not mean he does not hear them.

your view of God is simplistic in that you believe God is one when in reality he is one in three. you have the common old testament idea about God. the NT affords us a greater understanding of the personas of God that help us to understand reality and how God interacts within it....that you think is a good idea to not include even though this is a gift from God to Christians.


when you said "God knows..." who are you talking about? the Father? the Son? the Holy Spirit?

the funny thing is that this could HELP muslims to understand our Christian view about God but you act like a muslim ( in that they do not believe God in three personas ).

onesness in threeness is not hard to understand... how it is one God acting within reality as three different personas. this is a mystical saying and it can not be understood by human rationalization. you have to be in God and God in you to understand this reality.

spiritual experience is expressed by the one who experiences it and then men come along who did not see and yet they attempt to formulate teachings about that which they do not know. this is called 'outer religion' and 'the crucifying of the truth'. but a man can only know about God what God will give to him.
this is why our weakness is our strength... why prayer is more important than study... why virtue is far more important than belief systems....

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You said you found my beliefs "obscene."

obscene
əbˈsiːn/
adjective
adjective: obscene
(of the portrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency.

No, I said I found the doctrine of Hell obscene.

Then why are we still talking, why are you trying to convert me to Islam for instance?

I'm not trying to convert you to Islam. I'm throwing your reasoning back at you to make a point: If you don't feel compelled to convert to Islam when a Muslim tells you that you will receive a "great reward" for embracing his religion, then what leads you to believe that making similar claims about your own religion will be sufficient to sway anyone?

I haven't told anyone they shall receive "a great reward." I have told them about the love of Jesus Christ. I responded only after you claimed that God planned our damnation. It was you who put forward an unloving perspective of God, not me.

Also, frankly, if you think that "deserves" your contempt, then you need to look back 7 years and ask yourself why you still come here. If it's purely to "give me what I deserve," then you should examine your motivations.

For the third time, I'm not here for you.

 

[madaz]

You said you found my beliefs "obscene.".

Not exactly, he said the doctrine (that you believe in) is obscene.

It is arguably the most obscene doctrine ever conceived and attributed to a "loving" God, and you believe it.

 

[Blessedj01]

your view of God is simplistic in that you believe God is one when in reality he is one in three. you have the common old testament idea about God. the NT afford us a greater understanding of the personas of God that help us to understand reality and how God interacts within it....that you think is a good idea to not include even though this is a gift from God to Christians.


when you said "God knows..." who are you talking about? the Father? the Son? the Holy Spirit?

the funny thing is that this could HELP muslims to understand our Christian view about God but you act like a muslim ( in that they do not believe God in three personas ).

onesness in threeness is not hard to understand... how it is one God acting within reality as three different personas. this is a mystical saying and it can not be understood by human rationalization. you have to be in God and God in you to understand this reality.

I'm acting like a Muslim? You're acting like someone who's theologically confused.

"His omniscience is not restricted to any one person in the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all by nature omniscient."

Read more: What does it mean that God is omniscient?

"God is omniscient; He knows everything actual and possible. God is also eternal (Psalm 90:2). As the eternal, omniscient God, He has lived our yesterdays, our todays, and our tomorrows, the past, present, and future."

Read more: Does God know the future?
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Is your last statement telling me I'm not in Christ?

There are only four things that God doesn't know (through His own personal experience, as they contradict who He is):

"He doesn't know a person he doesn't love. He doesn't know a sin that he doesn't hate. He doesn't know any other way to deal with the problem of sin. And God doesn't know any other way to get the Good News out except through you and me."

Things God Doesn't Know - Day1.org

Not liking sin does not mean God is ignorant about it, or any other topic. There is nothing that is a mystery to God. God is not sitting about waiting to find out what your future holds - He already knows it.

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, “Behold, yan Israelite indeed, zin whom there is no deceit!” 48 Nathanael said to him, “How ado you know me?” Jesus answered him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”

John 1:47?48 (ESV) - " Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!? Nathanael said to him, How ..." - Biblia.com

 

[Blessedj01]

No, I said I found the doctrine of Hell obscene.

That "doctrine" is included in mine and many other people's beliefs. In fact, as far as I'm aware, if you want to discuss it you have to take it to another section of the forum.

I'm not trying to convert you to Islam. I'm throwing your reasoning back at you to make a point: If you don't feel compelled to convert to Islam when a Muslim tells you that you will receive a "great reward" for embracing his religion, then what leads you to believe that making similar claims about your own religion will be sufficient to sway anyone?

You're throwing false reasoning back at me.

There are a ton of things that compel me towards Christ as opposed to simply being told I will receive a "great reward" for 'converting to Islam.'

In fact, you haven't even applied the verse from the Quaran properly, because it doesn't just say that you have to believe, but that you must also "do deeds of righteousness."

"To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward," (Surah 5:9).

Come on, at least represent your argument properly. I am completely accurate in saying all people have to do is believe in Christ, there is no and do..., in Christianity. We come to Christ because of His love, not because we are earning our way into Heaven. That alone proves that He loves us.

For the third time, I'm not here for you.

For the third time then, you should stop telling me what deserves your contempt and falsely representing God as someone who "planned our damnation." If you really aren't here for me, then don't interrupt the thread with your unrelated ramblings.

 

[Blessedj01]

I find it funny that people think they can separate "my beliefs" from what "I believe in," when the 'doctrine' is a part of those beliefs and what I believe in. If I find what you believe in obscene, then I find your beliefs obscene. If part of what you believe in is obscene to me, then it's still accurate to say I find your beliefs obscene. My beliefs and what I believe in are the same thing.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That "doctrine" is included in mine and many other people's beliefs. In fact, as far as I'm aware, if you want to discuss it you have to take it to another section of the forum.

Yes, I'm aware that many people believe in this obscene doctrine.

You're throwing false reasoning back at me.

There are a ton of things that compel me towards Christ as opposed to simply being told I will receive a "great reward" for 'converting to Islam.'

In fact, you haven't even applied the verse from the Quaran properly, because it doesn't just say that you have to believe, but that you must also "do deeds of righteousness."

"To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward," (Surah 5:9).

Come on, at least represent your argument properly. I am completely accurate in saying all people have to do is believe in Christ, there is no and do..., in Christianity. We come to Christ because of His love, not because we are earning our way into Heaven. That alone proves that He loves us.

And all you have to do to receive the "great reward" promised to you by Islam is to believe in its doctrines and practice the religion accordingly. Easy. And yet you aren't a Muslim. So why exactly do you think that boasting about the "ease" with which one can obtain salvation is sufficient to convert anyone?

For the third time then, you should stop telling me what deserves your contempt and falsely representing God as someone who "planned our damnation." If you really aren't here for me, then don't interrupt the thread with your unrelated ramblings.

You got me. I am here for you simply because I am responding to you. I joined this forum 7 years ago, and acquired over 13,000 posts, solely for you and for the sake of this interaction.

 

[Blessedj01]

Yes, I'm aware that many people believe in this obscene doctrine.



And all you have to do to receive the "great reward" promised to you by Islam is to believe in its doctrines and practice the religion accordingly. Easy. And yet you aren't a Muslim. So why exactly do you think that boasting about the "ease" with which one can obtain salvation is sufficient to convert anyone?



You got me. I am here for you simply because I am responding to you. I joined this forum 7 years ago, and acquired over 13,000 posts, solely for you and for the sake of this interaction.

Welcome to ignore.

 

[madaz]

Welcome to ignore.

Your so predictable!

 

[Paulos23]

Part of the problem here is that to many of us that de-converted from some for of Christianity have been threatened at one time or another with hell. From the time we believed, through the questioning of belief, to now. It may be said in a kind way, or well meaning, but it is still a threat.

But for those of us that don't think god is real this threat has no hold and shows itself for what it is, a mental mind game to control people. "You are sinful and only the Lord can save you". Except what about those that live a good life anyway? "Original sin" is the answer to that, most times.

It is sad to me that some Christians still take this route. As if being a good person isn't enough, that you have to live in fear of eternal punishment.

 

[Blessedj01]

http://www.gotquestions.org/hellfire-preaching.html

Other points:

- If Hell is not real, why are you worried about the "mental mind game?"
- Acknowledging the existence of Hell isn't a "threat."
- People very rarely tell you about Hell without telling you about God's grace.
- Why are you worried about sin if God doesn't exist to punish it?
- What are you worried about being saved from, if you don't need saving?
- When have Christians ever advocated not living a good life and how is that relevant?
- If you think being a good person is "enough," then what are you stressing about? And enough for what/whom?

Your emphasis is all on punishment, threats, etc. Jesus' emphasis is on forgiveness, blessing, grace. Jesus suffered, for you.

The Bible says that Jesus has made a way so that NOBODY needs to worry about Hell. Why do you still cling to the false notion that He wants to send you there? Why do you make out that Christians are worried about Hell? We're completely saved by grace.

What you're really worried about is acknowledging God and His Son. You're really worried that being saved means giving up your own self-centered perspective. All of us are in the same boat, but the solution is really simple. It's been on offer for over 2000 years.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You worry an awful lot about stuff that isn't real.

The issue is the people who think it is real, and how they want that belief to influence my life. I would never talk about religion or would talk about it very little if people didn't harass me about it all the time in my daily life. You'd worry about invisible pink unicorns if people used the idea to try to get a law passed that said no pasta can be sold to people under 60

 

[Blessedj01]

The issue is the people who think it is real, and how they want that belief to influence my life. I would never talk about religion or would talk about it very little if people didn't harass me about it all the time in my daily life. You'd worry about invisible pink unicorns if people used the idea to try to get a law passed that said no pasta can be sold to people under 60

No one is forcing you to come here and talk about these beliefs.

No one is compelling you to visit a forum that's predominantly about religion.

No one is harassing you as far as I can see.

No law has been passed that says you can't do anything unless you become a Christian. That's not even a decent analogy.

Get real!

 

[PsychoSarah]

No one is forcing you to come here and talk about these beliefs.

No one is compelling you to visit a forum that's predominantly about religion.

No one is harassing you as far as I can see.

No law has been passed that says you can't do anything unless you become a Christian. That's not even a decent analogy.

Get real!

In real life silly, not online. I've even had stuff thrown at me. However, the reason I am on here actually is to help develop my social skills better, by being polite even to those who disagree with me and seem illogical from my perspective. I chose a religious site because arguments can become easily heated and people tend to feel strongly about it; learning to keep my cool has helped me a lot.