God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[Gottservant]

I think the thing that confuses people is that they want Him to know "what" they are, but if someone wants you to know what they are, that is because of "who" they were and God knows that. That's really the reason for this thread.

As for God being a threat, well, in the beginning God went straight to Hell because He hadn't created anything, but He was wise, He said "Once I get to Hell, I'm going to leave room to question what I have done" and when He got to Hell He became the Devil but he said "Why God?" and so there was a Devil that knew there had been a God and the first thing was created. This is self-sacrifice and because of it God instantly becomes a Creator again. So when you wonder why does God tell people not to go to Hell, well, He's been there. This is what scripture means when it says "Even if I go to Hell, you are there" because the evidence that God has been there is what God uses to create even Himself.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Creating yourself is a paradox

 

[Gottservant]

exactly

that is why time that should never end, still ends

 

[Blessedj01]

In real life silly, not online. I've even had stuff thrown at me. However, the reason I am on here actually is to help develop my social skills better, by being polite even to those who disagree with me and seem illogical from my perspective. I chose a religious site because arguments can become easily heated and people tend to feel strongly about it; learning to keep my cool has helped me a lot.

No-one can force Christ upon you. I've heard enough tales of people's moral outrage at being exposed to Christianity to know now that plenty of people exaggerate their "persecution" due to not believing. For the record by the way, the antagonism can go both ways. If this isn't you, then that's cool. All I can say is that Jesus loves you and wants you to make your mind up for yourself. If you're interested, just ask Him to show you.

 

[Blessedj01]

I think the thing that confuses people is that they want Him to know "what" they are, but if someone wants you to know what they are, that is because of "who" they were and God knows that. That's really the reason for this thread.

As for God being a threat, well, in the beginning God went straight to Hell because He hadn't created anything, but He was wise, He said "Once I get to Hell, I'm going to leave room to question what I have done" and when He got to Hell He became the Devil but he said "Why God?" and so there was a Devil that knew there had been a God and the first thing was created. This is self-sacrifice and because of it God instantly becomes a Creator again. So when you wonder why does God tell people not to go to Hell, well, He's been there. This is what scripture means when it says "Even if I go to Hell, you are there" because the evidence that God has been there is what God uses to create even Himself.

I can't follow you any more, bro.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I can't follow you any more, bro.

That would be because he doesn't like to take his pills. This isn't a flame, this is a statement of fact.

 

[PsychoSarah]

No-one can force Christ upon you. I've heard enough tales of people's moral outrage at being exposed to Christianity to know now that plenty of people exaggerate their "persecution" due to not believing. For the record by the way, the antagonism can go both ways. If this isn't you, then that's cool. All I can say is that Jesus loves you and wants you to make your mind up for yourself. If you're interested, just ask Him to show you.

Trying to shape laws based on a religion would be forcing the ideals of that religion upon other people.

 

[Noxot]

I'm acting like a Muslim? You're acting like someone who's theologically confused.

"His omniscience is not restricted to any one person in the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all by nature omniscient."

Read more: What does it mean that God is omniscient?

"God is omniscient; He knows everything actual and possible. God is also eternal (Psalm 90:2). As the eternal, omniscient God, He has lived our yesterdays, our todays, and our tomorrows, the past, present, and future."

Read more: Does God know the future?
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Is your last statement telling me I'm not in Christ?

There are only four things that God doesn't know (through His own personal experience, as they contradict who He is):

"He doesn't know a person he doesn't love. He doesn't know a sin that he doesn't hate. He doesn't know any other way to deal with the problem of sin. And God doesn't know any other way to get the Good News out except through you and me."

Things God Doesn't Know - Day1.org

Not liking sin does not mean God is ignorant about it, or any other topic. There is nothing that is a mystery to God. God is not sitting about waiting to find out what your future holds - He already knows it.

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, “Behold, yan Israelite indeed, zin whom there is no deceit!” 48 Nathanael said to him, “How ado you know me?” Jesus answered him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”

John 1:47?48 (ESV) - " Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!? Nathanael said to him, How ..." - Biblia.com

there is a difference between spiritual revelation and theology. one is the reality and the other is the image. I don't debate. Jesus did not debate. what we do is speak that which God gives to us. this is a spiritual state as opposed to a religious theological indoctrination. if you can't see how God can be both things at once and then I explain it to you twice and how it also does not take away from what you believe then i can't help you. just because truth is distorted or not grasped does not make it false. only God can teach you the truth and so the most important thing is not judging if what I said is good or evil but rather it is the clinging to God that matters.

don't worry though. whether it be theological study or mystical experience I can tell you that the atheist don't see a difference between us lol. that is why they can only detract and disprove the outer layers of Christianity but not it's depths. they in-fact help my cause when they seek the truth. they are my refiners. Christianities "enemies" are really our helpers. therefore God shall reward them justly. i'm not your enemy and i have not said a word to you that is making war against you. i'm only rejoicing in God and I get compelled to type things in joy.

both Christians and atheist have done terrible things in our world... and good things too... because we are all human beings and we try to do good in the way we think is right and we seek the truth and cling to what we believe is the truth. therefore it is up to every single person to do good or evil and with the truth they have they shall either do good or evil.

maybe God chooses to forget our evils and then they are no more. thus he does not know some things and thus they do not exist. is the OP true? I don't fully understand him but he brings forth some things that are not common which helps to stimulate conversation and thinking. if God does not know someone then they do not exist. nothing can be if God does not know. this does not mean God HAS to know because he is not a SLAVE to anything as he is his own thing. God chooses to know or not know because he is free. things can still exist if God does not want them to but those things exist in a state of chaos of non-being and being, in a state of falling apart. and this is not good for his creatures but eternally he is beholding his beloved eternal creation as his love transforms in theosis and thus we remain in God forever and he in us forever and this reality is like a shadow that fades away as a flash of lightning and in the blink of an eye.

 

[Gottservant]

I can't follow you any more, bro.

Are you a Son of God? That is how God relates to you.

 

[paradox101]

I would like to quickly comment on the original post.

"God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates"

On what basis can one make this claim?
Are we not then changing the attributes of God, which in effect changes the very definition of "God" ?
If we can't agree or know how to define God, then how can one begin to assert or speculate on what God does or does not do?

 

[Gottservant]

I would like to quickly comment on the original post.

"God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates"

On what basis can one make this claim?
Are we not then changing the attributes of God, which in effect changes the very definition of "God" ?
If we can't agree or know how to define God, then how can one begin to assert or speculate on what God does or does not do?

I am not changing anything, it is a difference: if you are simply what you are, God cannot relate to you

if God cannot relate to you, He cannot create you

thus when you die, you disappear (in Hell)

(therefore He cannot know you)

 

[Noxot]

I am not changing anything, it is a difference: if you are simply what you are, God cannot relate to you

if God cannot relate to you, He cannot create you

thus when you die, you disappear (in Hell)

(therefore He cannot know you)

lol. because God does not see in part but in full.

 

[paradox101]

I am not changing anything, it is a difference: if you are simply what you are, God cannot relate to you

if God cannot relate to you, He cannot create you

thus when you die, you disappear (in Hell)

(therefore He cannot know you)

That is a bold statement. Can you justify how you know what God can or cannot do?

I dont see the correlation. Lets say some future scientist creates (bio-engineers) a new species of insect. Doesn't mean we can relate to this insect at all. Why do we have to relate to the thing being created?

 

[Paulos23]

- If Hell is not real, why are you worried about the "mental mind game?"

Because it gives some people and irrational fear of something that doesn't exist. I know of people that are still struggling with it even after they leave the religion.

- Acknowledging the existence of Hell isn't a "threat."

Why acknowledge it when you don't have evidence for it?

- People very rarely tell you about Hell without telling you about God's grace.

Unless you ask why you need God's forgiveness...then I get an earfull.

- Why are you worried about sin if God doesn't exist to punish it?

I am not worried, you are projecting. I am worried about the effect on the mental state of those that do believe it.

- What are you worried about being saved from, if you don't need saving?

I am not. I am ticked at the emotional manipulation to scare me into believing.

- When have Christians ever advocated not living a good life and how is that relevant?

Depends on the Christian. Some just focues on living a good life and I don't have a problem with them. It is the ones that tell me I am a good person, and that I am still going to hell that I have a problem with.

- If you think being a good person is "enough," then what are you stressing about? And enough for what/whom?

My wife thinks I am good enough, and that is good enough for me. I am more ticked at people that claim I am going to hell no matter what I do just because I don't believe. That emotional manipulation is what I am mad at.

Your emphasis is all on punishment, threats, etc. Jesus' emphasis is on forgiveness, blessing, grace. Jesus suffered, for you.

One more time, I am mad at the emotional blackmail used in this tactic to scare people into church. And to me that is the problem here, no matter how good you are, the relgion claims you are not good enough if you don't beleive and that you will be punished. It makes up the problem and claims to have the cure. And it has been used and is being used to manipulate people to do things against their nature, to keep them in line and afraid, to keep them ignorant.

Thankfully there are Christians that have broken this trend and are much more loving then fear mongering. But then they don't claim I need to be saved. I am just tired of Christians claiming I need to be saved from some pretend threat that is created by their theoliogy that has no basis in reality. That is where my fustration is coming from.

 

[quatona]

I've said enough to you now, quatona.

You have said way more than enough.
And just for a reminder: I hadn´t asked you to start a conversation with me.

 

[Aldebaran]

Trying to shape laws based on a religion would be forcing the ideals of that religion upon other people.

People of all walks of life try to get laws changed to suit their own beliefs.

 

[PsychoSarah]

People of all walks of life try to get laws changed to suit their own beliefs.

Yes... However, trying to make a secular institution enforce a law which you only support based on religion and nothing else is an abuse of said system

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes... However, trying to make a secular institution enforce a law which you only support based on religion and nothing else is an abuse of said system

What if those laws weren't based on religion, but rather ideas that agree with a religion. "Thou Shalt not Steal" could be said to come from religion. But if it wasn't already a law, and someone introduced a bill that said the same thing, some people could say it's based on religion.

What I'm trying to say is that there are ideas found in religion people might find good to have as standards to live by, but don't work very well if people don't have an incentive to follow them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What if those laws weren't based on religion, but rather ideas that agree with a religion. "Thou Shalt not Steal" could be said to come from religion. But if it wasn't already a law, and someone introduced a bill that said the same thing, some people could say it's based on religion.

What I'm trying to say is that there are ideas found in religion people might find good to have as standards to live by, but don't work very well if people don't have an incentive to follow them.

Unless it is pure anarchy, laws like that will already be in place, and people would individually enforce them should they have to. That is a far cry from, say, a Hindu trying to make the consumption of beef illegal. Or Christians trying to get religion in secular schools. It impedes upon the rights of the people who aren't of those faiths, forcing them to follow traditions that from their perspective are unnecessary to even insulting. Would you want your kids to be forced in school to read the Quran? Of course not, because not only are you not Muslim, but because it clashes with your own religious traditions and beliefs.

 

[Aldebaran]

Unless it is pure anarchy, laws like that will already be in place, and people would individually enforce them should they have to. That is a far cry from, say, a Hindu trying to make the consumption of beef illegal. Or Christians trying to get religion in secular schools. It impedes upon the rights of the people who aren't of those faiths, forcing them to follow traditions that from their perspective are unnecessary to even insulting. Would you want your kids to be forced in school to read the Quran? Of course not, because not only are you not Muslim, but because it clashes with your own religious traditions and beliefs.

I guess I wouldn't want beliefs forced on me either, but I'd support the idea of making them known. An example of this is when some people wanted the idea of creation to be taught alongside evolution. It would offer students the option of both sides.