God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[Blessedj01]

Unfortunately I think most of the ideas put forward in the O.P are false.

For just one example, God can and does make the first move sometimes. Most notably through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

God did not wait for you to believe in Him, He believes in you.

 

[Gottservant]

Unfortunately I think most of the ideas put forward in the O.P are false.

For just one example, God can and does make the first move sometimes. Most notably through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

God did not wait for you to believe in Him, He believes in you.

It would have been wiser if you had said "true in the context of the world, but not in Heaven".

Then at least you could have appealed to some specific testimony of God, by which to justify your claim.

Saying God didn't wait is like saying He never will, that is not God.

 

[Blessedj01]

But God didn't wait. He planned our salvation before He even created us or we ever existed.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

But God didn't wait. He planned our salvation before He even created us or we ever existed.

That would also mean he planned our damnation before he even created us.

 

[quatona]

Gotta love the "God created a problem so that there could be a solution." theology.

 

[Blessedj01]

That would also mean he planned our damnation before he even created us.

God gave everything to save us. He planned for our salvation, He also provides for His wrath.

He does not want anyone to go to Hell.

God is not accountable for the sins of man, though He chose to bear them upon Himself.

Your post is a version of the crook's excuse, "I didn't do it your honour, it was all his idea!"

 

[Blessedj01]

Gotta love the "God created a problem so that there could be a solution." theology.

That's not true either. God created us even though He knew there would be problems (all created by us).

However, God provided a way fix them.

Your post is a version of the child's cry, "I wish I had never been born!"

 

[quatona]

That's not true either. God created us even though He knew there would be problems (all created by us).

However, God provided a way fix them.

Which - under the premise that God is the omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything - means exactly this: "He created a problem so He could solve it."

Your post is a version of the child's cry, "I wish I had never been born!"

No, it isn´t. But if attacking me helps comforting you....

 

[Blessedj01]

Originally Posted by Blessedj01

That's not true either. God created us even though He knew there would be problems (all created by us).

However, God provided a way fix them.
​

Which - under the premise that God is the omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything - means exactly this: "He created a problem so He could solve it."

Your post is a version of the child's cry, "I wish I had never been born!"
​

No, it isn´t. But if attacking me helps comforting you....

It doesn't mean that God "created a problem." There is no other way to make you, you, a human being that is 'other' from God, without giving you the capacity to sin via free will, without making you a robot that is forced to love it's creator.

God didn't "create a problem," we did. God created us and you sound ungrateful. That's not an attack on you. God anticipated the problem and provided Himself as a substitute for His justice and wrath.

 

[Blessedj01]

It doesn't mean that God "created a problem." There is no other way to make you, you, a human being that is 'other' from God, without giving you the capacity to sin via free will, without making you a robot that is forced to love it's creator.

God didn't "create a problem," we did. God created us and you sound ungrateful. That's not an attack on you. God anticipated the problem and provided Himself as a substitute for His justice and wrath. Take that as comfort, it's not for me.

If God was trying to be some cosmic smartass and tidy up a 'lil problem without any effort, He wouldn't have chosen this way to do it. He wouldn't grieve His soul deeply, give His innocent Son up to the cross and ultimately end his own life at only 33 years of age. God suffered immensely, infinitely, for the sins we committed.

Why did He do it? So He could call you His friend. So instead of us hating on God for what happened, how about we show some decency, be men, have some honour and start thanking God for bringing us here and doing what He did to save us.

 

[quatona]

It doesn't mean that God "created a problem." There is no other way to make you, you, a human being that is 'other' from God, without giving you the capacity to sin via free will, without making you a robot that is forced to love it's creator.

But God did it anyway.

God didn't "create a problem," we did.

Hadn´t God created the world the way He created it the problem wouldn´t have existed. If it´s all about the solution, God could have created the desired problemless state right away.

God created us and you sound ungrateful.

Your ears are fooling you.

 

[Blessedj01]

-Double post-

 

[Blessedj01]

But God did it anyway.

All I'm hearing is "I wish I was never born!" And doors slamming and little feet running.

Hadn´t God created the world the way He created it the problem wouldn´t have existed. If it´s all about the solution, God could have created the desired problemless state right away.

Here we go, you think you're God and that's the problem.

There is no other way this could have been done. If you argue from the standpoint that God is omnipotent and omniscient, you can't drop those premises and assume there was something outside of God's knowledge.

Also, beyond all this, God also fulfilled His entire character and the requirements of His Holy nature.

Your ears are fooling you.

Your heart is fooling you.

 

[quatona]

All I'm hearing is "I wish I was never born!" And doors slamming and little feet running.

Your home environment is preventing you from concentrating on what I wrote? I can empathize.


I´m just describing the logical implications. The apparently negative valuation of these implications is yours.

Here we go, you think you're God and that's the problem.

Well, I don´t think that I am God, and the fact that you claim this although I haven´t said anything that allows for this assumption speaks volumes about you, not about me.

There is no other way this could have been done.

Of course not - if God had done it differently the result would have been different. That´s the entire point. God however chose the drama version.

If you argue from the standpoint that God is omnipotent and omniscient, you can't drop those premises and assume there was something outside of God's knowledge.

...which I didn´t.

Also, beyond all this, God also fulfilled His entire character and the requirements of His Holy nature.

So we can tell his "entire character" and "Holy nature" by looking at the way he created the world? Drama is an essential part of it.

 

[Blessedj01]

You haven't said anything I haven't heard a thousand times before.

Throw the toys out of the cot, then come online and ask people like me to pick them up for you.

God loves you. Talk to Him instead of me. His name in the directory is Jesus.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

God gave everything to save us. He planned for our salvation, He also provides for His wrath.

He does not want anyone to go to Hell.

If he didn't want anyone to go to Hell then he wouldn't have created individuals whom he knew would never end up being saved. He created them knowing that they would ultimately face an eternity of Hell.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Here we go, you think you're God and that's the problem.

Kindly speak for yourself.

There is no other way this could have been done.

There is no other way for God to have a personal relationship with his created creatures except for threatening them with eternal torture?

 

[quatona]

You haven't said anything I haven't heard a thousand times before.

Eventually you may want to start considering it, then.

 

[Blessedj01]

If he didn't want anyone to go to Hell then he wouldn't have created individuals whom he knew would never end up being saved. He created them knowing that they would ultimately face an eternity of Hell.

I'm not facing an eternity in Hell. Jesus is my homeboy. I have nothing to worry about - because God is good. You're acting like there's a problem here. No, there's only a problem if you want to have a problem. God's work is done.

It is impossible to create one person with free will and then create another without it without compromising their their humanity.

Don't blame God for what we reap and sow. You're another one who wishes he had never been born.

 

[Blessedj01]

Kindly speak for yourself.

I don't think you understand what I meant.

There is no other way for God to have a personal relationship with his created creatures except for threatening them with eternal torture?

I won't bother having this conversation with you. These are the facts:

https://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

Crying about it won't change it, crying about it won't make you (or I) innocent. Jesus is offering you a free ride to Heaven on the basis of the words posted right in this thread and you're rejecting what He's giving you. Don't say I didn't warn you. All I can pray is that the Holy Spirit visits you and teaches you to open up your heart.