God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[Blessedj01]

Because it gives some people and irrational fear of something that doesn't exist. I know of people that are still struggling with it even after they leave the religion.

...or maybe they're just struggling with leaving the truth behind?

Why acknowledge it when you don't have evidence for it?

Well, I do. If you don't, why come here and make it my problem?

Unless you ask why you need God's forgiveness...then I get an earfull.

What kind of Christians are you talking to? Because I all I seem to be experiencing is an earful from you.

I am not worried, you are projecting. I am worried about the effect on the mental state of those that do believe it.

Superior, aren't you?

I am not. I am ticked at the emotional manipulation to scare me into believing.

How are you emotionally manipulated by something with no basis?

Depends on the Christian. Some just focues on living a good life and I don't have a problem with them. It is the ones that tell me I am a good person, and that I am still going to hell that I have a problem with.

But Hell isn't real, so what's the problem? Maybe you should try listening to the other things they say too. There's an explanation for that theological position.

My wife thinks I am good enough, and that is good enough for me. I am more ticked at people that claim I am going to hell no matter what I do just because I don't believe. That emotional manipulation is what I am mad at.

It's not about being good.

One more time, I am mad at the emotional blackmail used in this tactic to scare people into church. And to me that is the problem here, no matter how good you are, the relgion claims you are not good enough if you don't beleive and that you will be punished. It makes up the problem and claims to have the cure. And it has been used and is being used to manipulate people to do things against their nature, to keep them in line and afraid, to keep them ignorant.

So you're projecting your false perspective of Christianity upon other Christians, then you complain about projections?

Thankfully there are Christians that have broken this trend and are much more loving then fear mongering. But then they don't claim I need to be saved. I am just tired of Christians claiming I need to be saved from some pretend threat that is created by their theoliogy that has no basis in reality. That is where my fustration is coming from.

Maybe they've just given up on a stubborn man and are just trying to show you some love instead. If you don't want Christ, He won't force Himself upon you.

 

[Gottservant]

Yes, but that doesn't follow anything else that you've said so far...

Yes, it does.

The Son of God is a who, not a what.

"No one sees the Son but the Father, and whom the Father wishes to reveal Him"

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I guess I wouldn't want beliefs forced on me either, but I'd support the idea of making them known. An example of this is when some people wanted the idea of creation to be taught alongside evolution. It would offer students the option of both sides.

Yeah, it would offer them science and a creation myth. Both sides.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Who's doing that? Oh, wait...you're dragging us into a gay marriage debate aren't you? Or some abortion debate? Please don't do that. We've all had enough. Seriously, is that the only thing you can come up with as to your claims that religon is being forced on you? You had to reach out long and hard to find that and make some connection to you, personally. Then you came to CF to complain about it? This stuff never ceases to amaze me with how petty it becomes.

Also most of our basic laws are based on religion already.

No, they're not.

 

[Blessedj01]

Originally Posted by Blessedj01

I've said enough to you now, quatona.
​

You have said way more than enough.
And just for a reminder: I hadn´t asked you to start a conversation with me.

Oh, so you're that last word guy.

That's cool, I can say something to. If you didn't want a conversation, why did you post this?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844981-5/#post66431706

...you know, just for a "reminder", because *cue menacing tone* "you have said way more than enough."

 

[Blessedj01]

Yes, it does.

The Son of God is a who, not a what.

"No one sees the Son but the Father, and whom the Father wishes to reveal Him"

No offense but by itself that doesn't mean anything.

 

[madaz]

I guess I wouldn't want beliefs forced on me either, but I'd support the idea of making them known. An example of this is when some people wanted the idea of creation to be taught alongside evolution. It would offer students the option of both sides.

But creation is not another "side" to anything, it's not even a viable alternative to evolution. It's incomparable.

Perhaps Christian preachers should preach Islamic doctrine alongside Christian doctrine to their followers, at least it would offer Christians a viable alternative that is comparable.

 

[Blessedj01]

People try to take things out of the context of the society they are in.

 

[Gottservant]

No offense but by itself that doesn't mean anything.

Yes it does, it means the Son of God is a who

God cares about who you are, not what you are

If you knew the Son and had asked Him to reveal Himself, you would know this by now

 

[Gottservant]

But creation is not another "side" to anything, it's not even a viable alternative to evolution. It's incomparable.

Perhaps Christian preachers should preach Islamic doctrine alongside Christian doctrine to their followers, at least it would offer Christians a viable alternative that is comparable.

Let's not kid ourselves, it's incomparable because it's incomplete.

One principle is not enough, even if it's survival of the very bestest.

The idea that you can fix it by adding irrelevancies onto it, is a projection of the broken methodology that is the problem.

 

[quatona]

Oh, so you're that last word guy.

I know what you are doing there.

That's cool, I can say something to.

Oh, sure. It´s just that you just said you had said enough.

If you didn't want a conversation, why did you post this?

I didn´t say I don´t want a conversation. I said I didn´t start it.
I just responded when you approached me. You started talking to me, you can stop talking to me whenever you wish. No need to make a drama of it.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844981-5/#post66431706

...you know, just for a "reminder", because *cue menacing tone* "you have said way more than enough."

It was a response to a post of yours in which you had quoted and addressed me.

 

[Blessedj01]

I know what you are doing there.

Not doing anything, just pointing out that you had to have the last word.

Oh, sure. It´s just that you just said you had said enough.

I had, until you wanted to carry on talking to me in a threatening tone and saying things that aren't true.

​

I didn´t say I don´t want a conversation. I said I didn´t start it.
I just responded when you approached me. You started talking to me, you can stop talking to me whenever you wish. No need to make a drama of it.

And you weren't addressing me? That's enough grounds to say you wanted "a conversation."

It was a response to a post of yours in which you had quoted and addressed me.

Thanks, so this is the actual post in which you first addressed me.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844981-5/#post66431661

 

[Gottservant]

This is a conversation minimum thread, ok?

Doesn't matter if it's a presumption of guilt or innocence, if you are saying something the assumption is that it's part of an ongoing conversation, at least until someone makes a comment that is irrelevant or inconsequential

in other words, don't invite people not to speak, implied or otherwise

thankyou

 

[quatona]

Not doing anything, just pointing out that you had to have the last word.

...until you responded.
You had to have the last word. - No, you had. - No, you just had. - No, you responded. - No, you just responded yourself.
This is a silly game you are proposing here.
Find yourself someone else to pick a kindergarten fight with, will you.

 

[madaz]

...until you responded.
You had to have the last word. - No, you had. - No, you just had. - No, you responded. - No, you just responded yourself.
This is a silly game you are proposing here.
Find yourself someone else to pick a kindergarten fight with, will you.

He is running out of people to pick fights with Quatona because he puts his opponents on ignore whenever he loses the debate.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Who's doing that? Oh, wait...you're dragging us into a gay marriage debate aren't you? Or some abortion debate? Please don't do that. We've all had enough. Seriously, is that the only thing you can come up with as to your claims that religon is being forced on you? You had to reach out long and hard to find that and make some connection to you, personally. Then you came to CF to complain about it? This stuff never ceases to amaze me with how petty it becomes.

Also most of our basic laws are based on religion already.

Uh, no, I wasn't aiming for those issues, which belong in the ethics and morality subforum.

 

[Blessedj01]

...until you responded.
You had to have the last word. - No, you had. - No, you just had. - No, you responded. - No, you just responded yourself.
This is a silly game you are proposing here.
Find yourself someone else to pick a kindergarten fight with, will you.

It's not a game. I'll just put you on ignore.

 

[quatona]

He is running out of people to pick fights with Quatona because he puts his opponents on ignore whenever he loses the debate.

Are you a prophet or something?

 

[Noxot]

people... plz don't let your philosophical ideas be bound to the idea of 'government'. the free market solves the problem of 'what should be taught in schools' because it is voluntary. so you can stop arguing over "what should be taught in schools" when you stop trying to force what is taught in schools. this applies to most things in a free society.

IF you use government to enforce your opinions, be it secular or religious, then you are attempting to use coercion to force your ideas upon others. it is pure wickedness and HYPOCRITICAL... no matter what side you take.

 

[Paulos23]

...or maybe they're just struggling with leaving the truth behind?

Nope, not buying that.

Well, I do. If you don't, why come here and make it my problem?

Because this is the open part of the forum and I can say my opinon within limits.

What kind of Christians are you talking to? Because I all I seem to be experiencing is an earful from you.

There is a mix here in Washington State, most are "liberal" but there is a growing trend in "Fundies" and "Evangelical" Christians in the streets lately.

Superior, aren't you?

No, just tired of Christians telling me they have Truth with no evidence.

How are you emotionally manipulated by something with no basis?

Because it is emotional, and so it can bypass peoples reason. That is why I see it as emotional manipulation, because it is not based on evidence.

But Hell isn't real, so what's the problem? Maybe you should try listening to the other things they say too. There's an explanation for that theological position

.

I have, and the rest hasn't panned out either.

It's not about being good.

So it is just about being saved from something that has been invented and doesn't exist?

So you're projecting your false perspective of Christianity upon other Christians, then you complain about projections?

I am basing it on my experance with some Christians and experesing my opinon of those Christians. Most Christians I know are not like this, but then most of them are not trying to "save" me.

Maybe they've just given up on a stubborn man and are just trying to show you some love instead. If you don't want Christ, He won't force Himself upon you.

Funny, I know some Christians that disagree with you. Most are back in history, but not all.

I can see we have reached an impass. I don't think there is much more that can be said. You don't see it as emotional manipulation, I do and have experanced it and had friends experance it. I hope you never have to deal with it.