GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

[Hismessenger]

Isa 5:20-24
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. __________________

This scripture is dead on but no one is calling evil good in and of itself. What is being said is that evil is good for the purpose to which it was sent. All of His works are righteous even when we can't see the end and purpose it was sent for.

hismessenger

 

[theWaris1]

If evil is something God can create, why create evil in the first place? Given all the obvious problems it creates. I mean, God could have just built perfect people who do nothing other than live perfect lives. Wouldn't that just have been easier?

No pain no gain..

Evil simply means bad. Are we not animals but above other animals? Do other animals do bad things? Other animals don't have knowledge of sin. They live by the programming of DNA. We are programmed by DNA but have the ability to reason. This ability gives us knowledge of right and wrong and sets us apart from the animals.

Yeshua was with Yahweh in the beginning planning all things. I believe they knew all that would take place and they planned our redemption through the sacrifice of God himself before we were predestined.

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

.

 

[Zeena]

This scripture is dead on but no one is calling evil good in and of itself. What is being said is that evil is good for the purpose to which it was sent. All of His works are righteous even when we can't see the end and purpose it was sent for.

hismessenger

Have you even read what you wrote?

What is being said is that evil is good
*snip*

:o

Isa 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[Zeena]

No pain no gain..

Evil simply means bad. Are we not animals but above other animals? Do other animals do bad things? Other animals don't have knowledge of sin. They live by the programming of DNA. We are programmed by DNA but have the ability to reason. This ability gives us knowledge of right and wrong and sets us apart from the animals.
*snip*

Num 22:30
And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.

So goes your thesis!

2 Pet 2:14-16
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

 

[Hismessenger]

Let me ask you, was the lie that Rahab told a good thing or was it a bad thing. According to the word, we should not lie. so was the lie good for it's purpose or just plain bad.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Or for that matter, is the gun good or bad. It was created to gather food but it is most often used to kill. It's purpose was good even though it is used for evil.

hismessenger

 

[theWaris1]

Let me ask you, was the lie that Rahab told a good thing or was it a bad thing. According to the word, we should not lie. so was the lie good for it's purpose or just plain bad.

hismessenger

Not sure who you were asking but it was obviously a good thing. It was counted as faith and she was justified by a good work. Recon she ended her whoring ways? Did that even matter once she was justified by a good work?

 

[Zeena]

*snip*
GOD not only KNOWS EVIL... He is actively involved in its manifestations.

Hab 1:13a
Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity

You cannot separate Him from that which is IN His Creation...

This is polythiesm, not monothiesm.

If God be not separated from all things, then all things are God. :o

That which is DARK first, then that which is LIGHT second...

God is the first and the last;

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

.

 

[OzSpen]

Let me ask you, was the lie that Rahab told a good thing or was it a bad thing. According to the word, we should not lie. so was the lie good for it's purpose or just plain bad.

hismessenger

Have you investigated Norman Geisler's explanation of this in, "Graded absolutism", from his book, Christian Ethics? It's the best explanation I have found of justification for God's acceptance of this lie.

What did Corrie ten Boon do in hiding the Jews? Was it God's will or not for her to save human life in this way?

Sincerely, Oz

 

[Hismessenger]

Zeena, did you read everything that I wrote on this quote you posted?

Originally Posted by Hismessenger

What is being said is that evil is good
*snip*
​

I did not say that evil itself was good, but that it was good for the purpose for which it is sent. There is a difference to what you imply and what was said.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

Zeena, did you read everything that I wrote on this quote you posted?

Yes. And all I did was quote what you wrote, alongside the Scripture.

I did not say that evil itself was good, but that it was good for the purpose for which it is sent. There is a difference to what you imply and what was said.

hismessenger

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

EG; It is not God Who does evil, it is men, unless you say now the Lord has "wicked hands"?

Rom 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[Hismessenger]

EG; It is not God Who does evil, it is men, unless you say now the Lord has "wicked hands"?

If Christ had to be cruxified on the cross in order to fulfill the purpose for which he was sent, all in line with the divine will of God, where did the unction to do this by those with wicked hands come from? Think about that before you answer.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

If Christ had to be cruxified on the cross in order to fulfill the purpose for which he was sent, all in line with the divine will of God, where did the unction to do this by those with wicked hands come from? Think about that before you answer.

hismessenger

Instead of thinking for ourselves, let us seek the Lord;

Gen 18:25
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Isa 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

1 Cor 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+2:7-9&version=KJV

 

[ivebeenshown]

Remember how the Scriptures say that God created everything, and saw that it was good, and then rested from his work of creating? God has only ever created good.

 

[theWaris1]

Remember how the Scriptures say that God created everything, and saw that it was good, and then rested from his work of creating? God has only ever created good.

That doesn't correlate with the scripture that says he created evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Anyway you slice it he said he created evil.
Now that doesn't mean he is evil.

Evil could be considered good for his purpose of trying us and teaching us though we couldn't call evil good.

 

[OzSpen]

That doesn't correlate with the scripture that says he created evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Anyway you slice it he said he created evil.
Now that doesn't mean he is evil.

Evil could be considered good for his purpose of trying us and teaching us though we couldn't call evil good.

If God created everything, does that mean that He created all the evil in the world, including the 2004 Indonesian tsunami that killed about 230,000 people in a number of countries? What about the Joplin, Missouri, twister that killed over 120 people? Can God be seen as the cause of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 on New York City and Washington DC? If God created everything, where do these disasters fit in God’s agenda?

How do we respond, biblically? Perhaps it will be helpful to examine Isa. 45:7 more carefully to try to gain some light on this challenging topic.

The KJV translates as,

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”.

The ESV reads,

“I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things”.

According to the KJV, God creates good (light, peace) and evil (see also Jer. 18:11; Lam. 3:38; Amos 3:6). But there are other Scriptures that state that there is no darkness in God (e.g. 1 John 1:5). Hab. 1:13 states that “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil” (ESV). James 1:13 confirms that “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one”. So where does this leave us?

We know that God is morally perfect (see Deut. 32:4; Matt. 5:48). God cannot sin (Heb. 6:18). But there is more to the attributes of God, including his absolute justice that requires that sin be punished by Him. So, there will be judgment by God in this life and eternally (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:11-15). So, in this life, when God executes justice we sometimes call this “evil” because from our human perspective, God seems to be committing evil against these people and nations. Were the Indonesian tsunami and the Joplin MO twister examples of God’s “evil” actions?

However, the Hebrew ra, evil/calamity in Isa 45:7, does not always mean moral evil. In the Isa 45 context, the ESV demonstrates that it should be translated as “calamity”, which is how the NKJV also translates it. The context supports this translation. So God is seen as the creator of “evil”, not in the moral sense directly, but as the one who brings judgment / calamity.

God can be seen indirectly as the author of moral evil, but only in the sense that he created moral human beings who had the power of free choice and it is this free choice by us that brought moral evil into the universe. We see the beginning of this in Genesis 3. God created moral beings who had the ability to perform moral evil – and they did. God created free human beings and it is they who made evil real.

God’s making human beings with the possibility of free choice is a good thing. Surely we agree with the idea that human beings can choose one kind of clothing over another, one type of food over another, is a good action by God. Living in a world without choice would seem strange indeed. But the power of choice or free will comes with other consequences – the power for human beings to perform evil actions such as murder, rape, theft and many other evil things.

Thus, we can say that God created only good things and one of those good things was free choice. Moral, but free, human beings produced the evil in our world. Yes, God made the moral universe and indirectly created the possibility of evil in our universe. So, evil is permitted by God, but God does not produce or promote this evil. We know that ultimately a greater good is coming (see Gen. 50:20; Rev. 21-22).

It is an heretical doctrine of Gnosticism that claims that God created evil. It was refuted over and over by the apologists in the early centuries of the Christian church.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[theWaris1]

If God created everything, does that mean that He created all the evil in the world, including the 2004 Indonesian tsunami that killed about 230,000 people in a number of countries? What about the Joplin, Missouri, twister that killed over 120 people? Can God be seen as the cause of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 on New York City and Washington DC? If God created everything, where do these disasters fit in God’s agenda?

Sincerely, Oz

Hi Oz. If you search the scripture you should find that RA =

From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

Dark Red is the common use so the word or that is proceeding the colon.
Bad or Evil, calamity, wrong, trouble, mischief but they are all forms of BADNESS yes?
If you insert the word 'Calamity' where 'RA' was written in Hebrew most of the time it would sound silly or inappropriate.

Just because God created Evil does not mean he is Evil or a tempter. But he did created Evil and the Evil tempter.
The tempter does nothing that Gods hasn't approved of as the book of Job shows..


NOW sit down, hold on here and read this..

KJV
Mic 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.


YLT~ youngs literal
Mic 2:3 Therefore, thus said Jehovah: Lo, I am devising against this family evil, From which ye do not remove your necks, Nor walk loftily, for a time of evil it is

Who planned the Evil against this family? the Lord did.
It's a calamity, it's bad, its evil.


Wilt thy explain it away also or accept the fact that Yahweh said he created Evil? Then you can begin to unravel the other mysteries but not until you accept his words.

shlama akai

.

 

[Nanopants]

Hi Oz. If you search the scripture you should find that RA =

From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

Dark Red is the common use so the word or that is proceeding the colon.
Bad or Evil, calamity, wrong, trouble, mischief but they are all forms of BADNESS yes?
If you insert the word 'Calamity' where 'RA' was written in Hebrew most of the time it would sound silly or inappropriate.

Just because God created Evil does not mean he is Evil or a tempter. But he did created Evil and the Evil tempter.
The tempter does nothing that Gods hasn't approved of as the book of Job shows..


NOW sit down, hold on here and read this..

KJV
Mic 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.


YLT~ youngs literal
Mic 2:3 Therefore, thus said Jehovah: Lo, I am devising against this family evil, From which ye do not remove your necks, Nor walk loftily, for a time of evil it is

Who planned the Evil against this family? the Lord did.
It's a calamity, it's bad, its evil.


Wilt thy explain it away also or accept the fact that Yahweh said he created Evil? Then you can begin to unravel the other mysteries but not until you accept his words.

shlama akai

.

It's one thing to consider God's words and another to blindly accept them without understanding. It is not against the nature of God to destroy or to create calamity. It is contrary to God's nature to do that which is contrary to his nature, even by proxy. Evil (not necessarily destruction) is by definition, contrary to God's nature.

 

[Hismessenger]

I would ask a simple question but I already know the answer, so I will ask this , another very simple and straight forward request. If God ended this creation today, where would evil be?

hismessenger

 

[theWaris1]

It's one thing to consider God's words and another to blindly accept them without understanding. It is not against the nature of God to destroy or to create calamity. It is contrary to God's nature to do that which is contrary to his nature, even by proxy. Evil (not necessarily destruction) is by definition, contrary to God's nature.

So you're saying you don't believe his word is true?