GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

[Znex]

Strictly speaking sin is evil but evil is not sin!

I would argue that evil is inevitably caused by sin. Think about it; the only reason God would create a cyclone (hurricane for U.S.) would be to harm and/or teach those who have rebelled against him. If man did not sin, there would be no need for cyclones. All disasters or similar evil things are in order to either punish us for something in order to shape us to become better (as any good parent does) or just to shape us to become better. If there was no sin, there would be no evil. Simple as that.

 

[Zeena]

I would argue that evil is inevitably caused by sin. Think about it; the only reason God would create a cyclone (hurricane for U.S.) would be to harm and/or teach those who have rebelled against him. If man did not sin, there would be no need for cyclones. All disasters or similar evil things are in order to either punish us for something in order to shape us to become better (as any good parent does) or just to shape us to become better. If there was no sin, there would be no evil. Simple as that.

That's quite the summary on WHY God created cyclones!

Job 38:21
Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

Romans 11:34
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Job 36:22-33
Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him? Who hath enjoined him his way? or who can say, Thou hast wrought iniquity? Remember that thou magnify his work, which men behold. Every man may see it; man may behold it afar off. Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out. For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof: Which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly. Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle? Behold, he spreadeth his light upon it, and covereth the bottom of the sea. For by them judgeth he the people; he giveth meat in abundance. With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt. The noise thereof sheweth concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapour.

Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 39:1-2
Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

Job 42:3
Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

God doesnt create evil, we through our sins create evil. God is 100% goodness. He is incapable of evil. You guys have to understand that God loves us unconditionally, but in order for him to love us unconditionally he must endow us with free will. Without free will we would be his mindless robotic creations and if he did that , it means he cant love us. He gave us the choice of turning towards God and his infinite love and goodness or turning away from God and towards evil. Satan and the rest of his fallen angels were the first ones to do this.

God loves us infinitely and unconditionally. Correct me if im wrong but love cant be forced on anyone, or else it would not be love.

 

[addo]

Check this out,what was made with PERFECTION turned to be IMPERFECT and rebelled against his designer. (rebellion is no doubt an imperfection) Such a believe is not only illogical but means that God made an error in his creation-which is not possible!

Hmm... a perfect living being is one that has the option of working imperfectly, i.e.: that has free will. We are 'perfect' (or we would be) living beings because we were created as perfect but have the choice of working imperfectly. Stars and all other machines of the universe can only work as they were created, perfectly. By perfectly I mean that they do what they have to do. They all follow the laws of the universe, like gravity. Planets do the same. We have the option of disobeying (some of) His laws. We have the choice of working imperfectly thus disobeying the reason we were created for. We are better than stars for we have the possibility of working imperfectly. I don't believe stars have that possibility. Having the possibility of working imperfectly is not an imperfection in itself, but an advantage. Now if God would have created us already working imperfectly, then in that case He would have produced an error. But He didn't create us already working imperfectly but with the choice of working imperfectly.

My point is that Satan was created as a perfect being, but also with the ability to function imperfectly so that he may be able to choose God. It is true that rebellion is an error. But God didn't make an error because Satan wasn't created as an already rebelled being, but as a perfect being that has the possibility to rebel, but not already rebelled. A perfect living being is one that has the ability to choose to function imperfectly. If Satan couldn't choose to function imperfectly he wouldn't have free will, thus he'd be a robot. This is a thing hard to understand for some.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Free is the key here, we cannot love without it.

 

[anthony55]

God doesnt create evil, we through our sins create evil

Who created us ?

 

[Christian-Catholic]

God created us and endowed us with free wil that he loves infinitely. Without that free will we are robots and he couldnt love us. Love is a choice between all that is good (God) and all that isnt good (everything that is not of God).

 

[addo]

Who created us ?

God created us, but if you remember correctly, He created Adam in His image. This means that Adam was not evil, for His image is not evil. Adam, when by his own choice, choose to disobey became bad and so He lost the likeness of God.

 

[anthony55]

God created us, but if you remember correctly, He created Adam in His image. This means that Adam was not evil, for His image is not evil. Adam, when by his own choice, choose to disobey became bad and so He lost the likeness of God.

Could sin have come into the world by one man if God would not have created man ?

 

[anthony55]

Could sin have come into the world by one man if God would not have created man ?

The answer is no, Adam could not have sinned if God did not create him, so Adam's sin was contingent upon Gods Sovereign will.

 

[ittarter]

The answer is no, Adam could not have sinned if God did not create him, so Adam's sin was contingent upon Gods Sovereign will.

Food for thought.

 

[ittarter]

God created us, but if you remember correctly, He created Adam in His image. This means that Adam was not evil, for His image is not evil. Adam, when by his own choice, choose to disobey became bad and so He lost the likeness of God.

In fact the image wasn't lost...

Acts 17:29 "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill.
1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Therefore the image of God doesn't have to do with being good or evil (just like it doesn't have to do with being spirit or body). It doesn't mean we are like God in EVERY way, but in a specific way.

This doesn't really have much to do with the OP, but I thought I'd give you some information with respect to your own thoughts.

 

[ittarter]

Zeena, awesome response to Znex. I wish I could rep you...

 

[anthony55]

When Adam sinned, and man in Him, the image of God He was created with was lost, gone, except for the physical form man has.

In order for men to retain God's image, He must be created again, He must become a new creature.

Notice Paul's statements:

eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Now, if the new man which is created after God, in righteousness and true holiness, then apart from being a new man, that aspect of being in the image and likeness of God is missing.

One certainly cannot be in the image and likeness of God and lack righteousness and true holiness.

col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

The same thing here, it appears plainly to be no image of God within man until he is a new man, a new creation, of which he cannot play a part in.


To believe that men are by nature in the image and likeness of God is a lie, the scripture cannot support it.

He must be born again.

 

[martymonster]

I'd like to know how something that was perfect can become imperfect of itself?

If I design a car and claim it's perfect and then theres a design flaw and it crashes and kills someone I'm responsible because though I claimed to have designed the perfect vehichle the flaw in it's design which is of my doing makes it imperfect.

When God's designs something however and it is claimed (not by Him) that it is perfect but it malfuctions and kills billions of people it's not God's fault?

When God said He made the world and declared afterward that it was very good, what was it good for?

Good for what He is using it for.
It is not the finnished product!

What would God want with physical creatures anyway?

He is spirit!

 

[Pard]

I'd like to know how something that was perfect can become imperfect of itself?

If I design a car and claim it's perfect and then theres a design flaw and it crashes and kills someone I'm responsible because though I claimed to have designed the perfect vehichle the flaw in it's design which is of my doing makes it imperfect.

When God's designs something however and it is claimed (not by Him) that it is perfect but it malfuctions and kills billions of people it's not God's fault?

Hello,

I think there is a problem with your example. You see, unlike a car, humans can think and choose. Can a car choose to crash, or to malfunction? Not really, however we humans can. God gave us the free will to make a choice. He gave Adam and Eve a choice in Eden. He said DO NOT eat from that apple tree over there, but he planted a second tree which He never told them they couldn't eat from.

Free-will created the "malfunction", but if it was not for free will than we would not truly be able to love God, as He intended for us to do. You cannot truly love what you are forced to obey and love.

 

[martymonster]

Hello,

I think there is a problem with your example. You see, unlike a car, humans can think and choose. Can a car choose to crash, or to malfunction? Not really, however we humans can. God gave us the free will to make a choice. He gave Adam and Eve a choice in Eden. He said DO NOT eat from that apple tree over there, but he planted a second tree which He never told them they couldn't eat from.

Free-will created the "malfunction", but if it was not for free will than we would not truly be able to love God, as He intended for us to do. You cannot truly love what you are forced to obey and love.

Well if man's freewill caused Him to choose poorly then that is a design flaw then isn't it!

If man wasn't flawed He would have chose correctly then wouldn't He and freewill does not change the analogy.

 

[Pard]

Well if man's freewill caused Him to choose poorly then that is a design flaw then isn't it!

If man wasn't flawed He would have chose correctly then wouldn't He and freewill does not change the analogy.

And temptation, does that not change the analogy?

 

[martymonster]

And temptation, does that not change the analogy?

NO.

If my car fulls to peices when I hit a bump in the road that's still a design flaw and still my fault.

 

[Zeena]

NO.

If my car fulls to peices when I hit a bump in the road that's still a design flaw and still my fault.

We're talking about human beings, not cars.

Human being are created in the Image of God.. Temptation comes.. It comes to all of us, even Jesus was not immune to temptation, as a man, God in the flesh.. When we, as Christians abiding in Christ, resist temptation by submission to our Heavenly Father we grow in Grace and knowledge of the sufferings of Christ.. Our characters are built up to be more Christ-like, we are conformed.

There could be no growing up, no growing into the full stature of Christ Jesus our Lord without temptation, which requires a free-will choice to either submit to or reject the help of our Saviour.