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GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

drichards85

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I believe it is more accurate to say that rather than "emanate" from the nature of God the principles of logic are summed up in the second Person of the Holy Trinity, the Logos Jesus Christ. Logos denotes more than just "Word," it means more so Rational Principle. Logic and Truth, therefore, are Personal insofar as they are brought together and reach their apex in a specific Person who became Incarnate. It is true that concepts such as "being" did not emerge by accident, but they describe a certain mode of existence that I believe cannot be ascribed to God in terms of His essence. This is transcendant element. The immanent element is that this God whose essence is beyond being and therefore unknowable also comes down to us, through His activities in which He is wholly present. It is only through His action in history and the lives of the Prophets, Apostles, Fathers, and Saints that God becomes known. All language used to describe God must be qualified since the intent language and analogy always fall short of the full reality of God which is apprehended only through the experience of God Himself. In most if not all cases, an analogy between the essence of God and the essence of creatures results in crude anthropomorphism that borders on blasphemy. Though I agree that the terms used to describe God often sound like analogies between God and something created, these refer to God as He is manifested in history and through the lives of holy men and women rather than to God as He Is in Himself. That we cannot know.

I think you misunderstand my comments on the nature of God. I simply meant to offer an alternative framework through which to view the problem of nature and person. That nature determines person must be demonstrated rather than assumed. As I said in my above post, I think this mistake carries huge ramifications for the doctrine of God and of Christ. Though I agree that *in theory* God would be circumscribed by His nature, it becomes difficult to say just what God is circumscribed by since His nature is limitless, without boundaries.

I do not believe that God can will contrary to His nature; I also believe that God is free. That God cannot be free if He wills only good operates under the assumption that freedom requires an option between good and evil. If this is the case then God is not free, because it is impossible for Him to sin. But I believe on the contrary that freedom only requires a number of options to choose from, and that these options can all be good. If I have the option to feed the hungry or to clothe the naked, both of these options are good and I am free to choose between them, even my choice excludes the possibility that I kick an old lady. The reason that man is able to commit evil acts is due to the distinction between Uncreated and Created. As uncreated, God is immutable, i.e. unchangeable, but as created, mankind is mutable, his nature is unstable insofar as through his personal choice he deliberates and chooses between either good or evil, and ends up effecting his nature accordingly. God wills man to attain virtue, but in freedom, so God does not relinquish His sovereignty. Furthermore, God wills man to be conformed to His Image, and Christ IS that Image. Through the Incarnation all are conformed to Christ, because He unites human nature to His Person, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, the Logos. This is why throughout the New Testament Christ is spoken of as "the second Adam," His Incarnation replaying the events of the fall and of the history of Israel and also of the individual's history, this time to an opposite conclusion. This is why Christ is said to recapitulate all things in Himself, and why He is said to save all men. He saves them through the union of His Divinity to our humanity, but our personal appropriation of that salvation depends on how we are raised - either we will be raised to bliss, as St. John says, or to damnation, but all partake of the resurrection of Christ. "One died for all, therefore all died." Whereas Adam succumbed to temptation, Christ overcame it and thereby elevated human nature in its union to HIs Person.

Forgive me, I have to head out, but I will respond to other points later when I have time. I can point you to literature that deals thoroughly with this subject if you wish, however. Take care.
 
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Hismessenger

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If God has already determined certain individuals for Heaven and others for Hell, then he would be unjust and my preaching would be in vain. Nor do I believe that history is fixed, or inevitably set by God, like the fatalism of Islam. God is not the author of evil."

This is the problem. If you say God is in control and then make statements such as this. Do you really believe this verse;

Rev 16:7 And I heard another from* the altar saying, "Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] Your judgments."

God the same, yesterday, today and forever more.
It matters not what we see but God will accomplish what He set about to do and whether we understand it or not is irrelevant for we can't comprehend a day let alone an eternity.

hismessenger
 
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Kristin E

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will if GOD created evil why did he cast the devil away from the kingdom of heaven!!!hello do you read your bible and you said it again yourself gave the answer.

that the devil indeed tested the good but it never worked as they went against evil and the power of good always gets the better of evil!!!

if you read revaltions the NT you would indeed know that he will cast and put an end of satans evil once and for all!!!

the fact now is when?and also when the coming of the son of man jesus christ comes the sheep will be one side the good and the goat evil turned away and there will only be day and no night how cool :cool:

what a thought i hate darkness so i am obvious elite from evil!!!:thumbsup:

jja


:preach:

Quoted for Truth! :thumbsup:
I have stated this COUNTLESS times, God did not create evil, neither did Jesus. It was Satan really... He created Evil when he defied God by choosing to stand up to him and try to prove he was better then God, but fact is Satan is not better then God. Basically God saw Satan was Evil and full of Sin so he banished Satan straight to Hell and it was just. Satan was so Sinful and Evil he tempted Adam & Eve, in which that is when Sin truly was unleashed on us all. Also Satan even tried to tempt Jesus, but since Jesus was pure and good he chose God, Faith, and Salvation over Satan and his Sinful ways.
 
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Zeena

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Quoted for Truth! :thumbsup:
I have stated this COUNTLESS times, God did not create evil, neither did Jesus. It was Satan really... He created Evil when he defied God by choosing to stand up to him and try to prove he was better then God, but fact is Satan is not better then God. Basically God saw Satan was Evil and full of Sin so he banished Satan straight to Hell and it was just. Satan was so Sinful and Evil he tempted Adam & Eve, in which that is when Sin truly was unleashed on us all. Also Satan even tried to tempt Jesus, but since Jesus was pure and good he chose God, Faith, and Salvation over Satan and his Sinful ways.
AND Satan was NOT created evil . :wave:
 
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Zeena

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True he was not created Evil, but more so chose to be Evil by defying God. So by this God did not create Evil Period.
AMEN!

Psalm 136


1O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
3O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.
4To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.
5To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
6To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
7To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
10To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:
11And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:
12With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.
13To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:
14And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:
15But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.
16To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.
17To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
18And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
19Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:
20And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:
21And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:
22Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.
23Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:
24And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.
25Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever. 26O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
 
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DonnyT

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AND Satan was NOT created evil . :wave:

If Satan was not created evil, where did evil come from? Who tempted Lucifer to betray God? Was there another redundant Satan? :D You have to understand that if evil never existed before Lucifer, Lucifer never would have betrayed God in the first place.
 
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Zeena

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If Satan was not created evil, where did evil come from?
His choice to chose.

Who tempted Lucifer to betray God?
He looked to himself and was tempted by creation.

He was marvelously made! :blush:

Was there another redundant Satan? :D
Huh?

You have to understand that if evil never existed before Lucifer, Lucifer never would have betrayed God in the first place.
Creation existed before Lucifer.
Lucifer has appetites too, and he misdirected his appetites AWAY from the Living God, and thus fell from Grace.
 
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DonnyT

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His choice to chose.

He looked to himself and was tempted by creation.

He was marvelously made! :blush:

So you're saying God made him easily tempted or He made creation too tempting?

Huh?


Creation existed before Lucifer.
Lucifer has appetites too, and he misdirected his appetites AWAY from the Living God, and thus fell from Grace.

This does not make sense, because if there was no evil, Lucifer's appetites would never have caused himself to turn away. One cannot have evil thoughts if there is no evil...
 
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Kristin E

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If Satan was not created evil, where did evil come from? Who tempted Lucifer to betray God? Was there another redundant Satan? :D You have to understand that if evil never existed before Lucifer, Lucifer never would have betrayed God in the first place.

Well who created God? God is infinite he is forever, just like Satan... God created Satan, but Satan chose Sin because Satan has Free Will... So Yes Satan Caused Sin... God did not.
 
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Zeena

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So you're saying God made him easily tempted or He made creation too tempting?
God made angels and men with the choice to either submit or PERISH! :wave:

This does not make sense, because if there was no evil, Lucifer's appetites would never have caused himself to turn away. One cannot have evil thoughts if there is no evil...
We all have lust;

James 1:13-20
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.
Be not deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Ye know this, my beloved brethren. But let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

So you see, lust is NOT an evil thing, in and of itself.
It is when we lust after anything BUT God that we be found sinners.
 
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DonnyT

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Well who created God? God is infinite he is forever, just like Satan... God created Satan, but Satan chose Sin because Satan has Free Will... So Yes Satan Caused Sin... God did not.

God is infinite and the sole creator. The Bible says He created all things in heaven and earth. Col 1:16.
 
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Zeena

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God is infinite and the sole creator. The Bible says He created all things in heaven and earth. Col 1:16.
AMEN!

He DID create all THINGS.

BUT, evil is not a 'thing'. :wave:

It is an ACTION, namely, the transgression of the law, even as set forth in Scripture;

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
 
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Kristin E

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AMEN!

He DID create all THINGS.

BUT, evil is not a 'thing'. :wave:

It is an ACTION, namely, the transgression of the law, even as set forth in Scripture;

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

quoted for truth :amen::thumbsup:
 
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DonnyT

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God made angels and men with the choice to either submit or PERISH! :wave:

We all have lust;
Paul here is speaking in terms of after the fall of mankind so it has no relevance in this argument.

James 1:13-20
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.
Be not deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Ye know this, my beloved brethren. But let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

So you see, lust is NOT an evil thing, in and of itself.
It is when we lust after anything BUT God that we be found sinners.
God does not tempt, but He created Satan for the purpose of tempting. So it's Satan who tempts.
 
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DonnyT

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AMEN!

He DID create all THINGS.

BUT, evil is not a 'thing'. :wave:

It is an ACTION, namely, the transgression of the law, even as set forth in Scripture;

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

An action is a thing.
 
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Zeena

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You said evil is an action, and I'm simply saying an action is a thing.
I quoted SCRIPTURE to this effect man;

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Now, where does God repent of His Word?
 
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