GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

[Zeena]

<<God said that everything He created was good>> Yes. Good, NOT perfect. I don't believe you can be PERFECT unless you are always humble and always making logical decisions to trust God and obey God.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

 

[Hismessenger]

Job 8:20
Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, Neither will he uphold the evil-doers.

THERE IS TRUTH AND UNDERSTANDING IN THIS VERSE BECAUSE IT SAY EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. Which was;

Nothing can just spring up in God's creation for it has to be sustained by Him in order for it to exist.

So now you ask how is there truth and understanding in this verse. Because it says that He will not uphold evil doers but and here is the truth, How is Satan and His minions still abroad in the earth unless God sustains them for His purpose. That is the whole argument in a nut shell. Can you dispute the truth and will you leaning to your own understanding? Think hard before you answer if you can.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

THERE IS TRUTH AND UNDERSTANDING IN THIS VERSE BECAUSE IT SAY EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. Which was;

So now you ask how is there truth and understanding in this verse. Because it says that He will not uphold evil doers but and here is the truth, How is Satan and His minions still abroad in the earth unless God sustains them for His purpose. That is the whole argument in a nut shell. Can you dispute the truth and will you leaning to your own understanding? Think hard before you answer if you can.

hismessenger

I have exhaustively answered your assertations with Scripture, now, please answer me this;

What do you mean by sustain?
Do you not mean that Satan is a puppet whom God controls?

This doctrine makes God the author of sin. This charge is, I am aware, strenuously denied by all Calvinists, but what other construction is it possible to give the assertion of Edwards: "The decrees of God are none other than His eternal doing that which is done.38 Or of Dwight: "It is metaphysically proper to say, God wills all things into existence; that they are produced by His choice, in the sense that any effect is produced by its efficient cause."39 If such language, indeed, if the doctrine of Absolute Divine Sovereignty, in any aspect, does not make God, not only the author of sin, but the chief and only sinner, it is, to say the least, very misleading.

To reconcile this doctrine with the divine perfections has been the problem of the centuries. To punish a moral being for that which it is not possible to avoid; to ordain and impose a life of sin, and remand the sinner to hell for leading it would doom the memory of any earthly sovereign to an immortality of shame. Has God done it?

A common and convenient mode of meeting the difficulty is to relegate the whole matter to the inscrutable will of God--assume that He can do nothing wrong, and to ask us to adore the wisdom and goodness which dooms men to a life of sin and an eternity of despair, without affording them the poor consolation of knowing why. Calvin charges with presumption those who even dare to inquire. "The will of God," he asserts, "is the highest rule of justice; so that what He wills must be just for the very reason that He wills it." Man, he claims, knows too little of God to question the wisdom of His counsels. "The Christian," he says, "may open his ears and heart to all addressed to him by his Lord, with this moderation, that as soon as the Lord closes His sacred mouth, he shall desist from all further inquiry.''40

This is a convenient mode of dealing with the problem, but neither satisfactory nor safe--one which in the end will prove a weapon of double edge. Ultimate reliance upon one's own intuitions is the basis of all faith and religion. He who looses confidence in himself is adrift, and can have confidence in nothing. How can I believe in the existence of God without relying upon the faculty by which He is apprehended, and by which the proof of his existence is weighed? If I am not competent to say, "Making a man steal, and then punishing him for stealing is unjust," I am not competent to pronounce any of the ways of God just. If my intuitions are unreliable in the one case--they can not be trusted in the other.

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http://www.gospeltruth.net/whowillriseup.htm

 

[Tzaousios]

Do you not mean that Satan is a puppet whom God controls?

So far you have discussed what Scripture says about the character of Satan (that he was a murderer from the beginning, chose to sin, etc.), and his relationship to human beings (that he tries to deceive them, etc.).

However, it seems you are refraining from telling us what you think Satan's relationship to God is. Does Satan fall within or without God's omnipotent power and sovereignty over His creation?

Also, I am still waiting for your substantive reply to the verses I posted earlier in this thread. You still have not shown how you understand them in concert with the beliefs about evil you have propounded through out this thread. I pointed this out to you in my post #184.

 

[heymikey80]

What do you mean by sustain?

And then you answer someone's question for him ...?

Do you not mean that Satan is a puppet whom God controls?

I'm sorry, but I would absolutely hope that God completely restrains Satan. Otherwise the Judgment is going to be an absolute riot.

And if God completely restrains Satan ... the sole distinction we're talking about is when. Puppetry is an aspect of your position on Satan, too. It's just a question of when.

As to how God deals with the wills God has Himself made, the Calvinist position is quite clear:

... does not act in people as if they were blocks and stones; nor does it abolish the will and its properties or coerce a reluctant will by force ... Canons of Dordt
​

So, not puppetry. In point of fact, puppetry is a constant and a ridiculous smear repeated ad nauseum by anti-Calvinists for hundreds of years. It's not the case for Calvinists. Making such a statement is offensive to Calvinists. You should be clear that when you're making such a statement you're forming an attack. Calvinists see God working with persons as persons.

This is constantly reiterated, and actually recent philosophical discussions about free will have turned to precisely, exactly this argument as a reason why libertarian free will and incompatibilism are problematic.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/#4.2

 

[sungaunga]

What do you mean by sustain?
Do you not mean that Satan is a puppet whom God controls?



WHO WILL RISE UP? by JED SMOCK--Confrontational Evangelism on Campus

He certainly wasn&#8217;t caught off-guard or standing helpless to stop it when sin entered the universe. God is in control of evil, and every thing in the universe down to the very last quark. And he does whatever HE wishes. &#8220;Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases&#8221; &#8220;Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps&#8221; God is always in control, not the other way around. And yet, we are still responsible. How does he still find fault? I don't know. Every jew and roman officials involved, judas, pilate, pharisees, saducees, scribes, all murdered Jesus out of their own evil heart, and yet every detail was planned by God. Try figuring that out. Yes, some truths are hard for me to comprehend, like Jesus being 100% God and 100% Man. Or the Trinity, or the eternity of God who had no beginning, but still I believe it. The Bible is replete with such paradoxes which to me is a statement that it is indeed divine in nature. Men don't write such paradoxes, we know editors theyd fix all of that.

hope that helps ^^

ps - mikey thanks for our conversation on the righteousness of christ, after much studying, I do feel as though i am inline with your take on it.

 

[Hismessenger]

What do you mean by sustain?

I looked for the word sustained in the bible dictionaries and they give examples of what it is but do not explain it. So Here is the Websters defintion from my unabridged version

Suatain; to maintain; to keep in existence; keep going; prolong, as the pedals sustains the tones ( on an organ or piano)

2To keep supplied with necessities; to provide for.

3to support from or as from below; to carry the weight or burden of.

I think it should be fairly simple to understand that if Evil of any kind exists in the creation it is only here because God keeps it in existence. Or else how would it survive in what is His by virtue of the fact that he holds everything together which we know of and things which we don't have a clue. If you can not accept this truth then I leave off from further discussions for it would be fruitless.

Last comment from the word;

Rom 9:22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

So if you can understand sustain you must understand that in order for it to be here and remain, it had to be created and sustained by Him for His purpose and nothing else by what we may think or say.Nothing can exist apart from Him in this creation................! For it must be sustained by Him.

hismessenger

 

[Breckmin]

The evil doesn't create confusion for God. It is only man who is confused. God uses the evil for His purpose. The evil is created, for if and when God ends the tribulation, evil will no longer exist for the creation will be complete in itself.

It is an interesting question...

"Can evil exist in hell separated from God's glory in heaven?"

Will evil exist in hell while love and glory and trust and obedience exists
in heaven?

The reason I ask the question is because if evil continues to occur in hell then that would be yet another reason to make it eternal...but the flip side is that more transgressions against a Holy God will continue to become
part of the historical record.

 

[Breckmin]

My observation of this thread is that we have a double meaning on the word evil.

In one case (Isaiah 45:7) we have "causing well being" or PEACE/rest verses
"unrest" "ill being" "calamity" "judgement" "evil circumstance" etc..

and in the other case we have "sin" or disobedience.

To me, it is blasphemy to accuse God of creating/causing our disobedience
or sin. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Our Creator
is a Holy God... He is the Holy and Righteous God of Abraham and He
does NOT directly CAUSE or create "sin" or disobedience.

We must differentiate between "sin" (from a choice/decision) and 'ro"
(rah) which is unfavorable circumstances or living conditions which are
seen as calamity. YES God does ordain these circumstances...but there
is a fine line here with "God together acting" with human choice. (or
angelic choice).

God did NOT create sin...He created "choice." He created will so that
LOVE could exist. LOVE is a decision...but making a bad decision because
of a lack of knowledge or a lack of understanding you should always trust
God, etc. is a bad thing. We need choice in order to give TRUE love...this
creates the potential for disobedience.

As far as "God created all things..." you need to clarify that "God created
all things that were actually created." Since time and 3 dimensional spatial
existence are clearly infinite from a mathematical analysis is it somewhat
curious as to why these would not just become "effectual" when there was
finite existence. "Nothing comes from nothing" and if there was some
sort of equilibrium that existed prior to creation that exists with our Holy
Creator then such equilibrium from which to bring forth positive and negative
energies as well as matter and anti-matter, etc did not need to be created
either... (clearly a theory).

God didn't create Himself...neither did He need to create His Holy Attributes.
Good did not need to be created and good is the STANDARD
by which evil is judged (measured), etc. Did God need to "create" His
Perfect and Holy Plan? Or did this Holy Plan already exist in His Immutable
and Omniscient Mind.

I think it is important to specify that God created "all things that were
created" because we can list "any attribute of God" as a so called "thing"
in the English language.

I DO agree with Hismessenger on the point of God creating (through a
process of humans making choices and pro-creating to have more and
more children) vessels of wrath prepared for distruction (or hell).

I think Romans 9 makes this pretty clear. We are God's elected children
by His grace and those who are NOT elected through an (actual)infinite
amount of circumstances are destined to logical eternal separation from
God's eternal glory and honor. While God takes no pleasure in judging
them...He does allow their existence through a process of reproduction
so that more born-again believers can be adopted out of those who are
perishing. God is omniscient and He knows every single person who will
be logically eternally separated. It is a horrible unfathomable reality that
such anathema will take place for those who are lost...but this is how
great a salvation we have been destined for...by God's incredible Grace
and God's incredible Grace alone.

Still...there are choices being made. Real choices.

This begs the question as to "what is a choice, really?" apart from
circumstances...or circumstances of a choice. The answer to this...
like the "role of knowledge" in making the correct choice... is a much
deeper and different discussion.

 

[Breckmin]

So if you can understand sustain you must understand that in order for it to be here and remain, it had to be created and sustained by Him for His purpose and nothing else by what we may think or say.Nothing can exist apart from Him in this creation................! For it must be sustained by Him.

I think here also it is important to differentiate between sustaining
something's existence and its ability to actually MAKE choices...
and causing or sustaining the actual "choices" themselves.

Clearly God is "together acting" (sunergei) with our choices..and He
brings circumstances in our lives BY HIS GRACE to lead us to start
making correct soteriological decisions by giving us the saving faith
to make such decisions to live by faith and be obedient to God and
TRUST God.
One could argue that by NOT bringing circumstances (the conviction
of the Holy Spirit is also a circumstance) into the lives of unbelievers
who perish..that God is "together acting" to prepare such vessels
for eternal judgement and logical separation.

It is NOT fair. There is nothing fair about "grace." I would argue
that there is "no such thing as cosmic fairness" and assert the
Law of Unfairness here and defend it based on objects in motion
having completely different experiences and circumstances...and
when you add "choice" and different points of time to the mix - we
see it is impossible for anyone to experience the same "fairness"
in the universe we live in.

Back to the original point of this post... sustaining an existence
of a being capable of making evil choices is NOT the same thing
as sustaining "evil" or "sin" itself. If you mean that "God sustains
choice or volition or will" then I think people will agree with you..

BUT when you say "God sustains "sin" you are missing the fact
that sin requires a being of choice who is "separate" from God
(or another existence that is not God Himself) and it is their ability
to choose that is actually being sustained....their existence and
the matter that surrounds them in the universe.

The sin is actually a violation against a Holy God and Creator.

 

[DonnyT]

If God is all that is good, evil was necessary to give mankind freewill. Freewill is necessary if God desired true love and not robots. Now, if this evil was necessary, God must have created it, since He is the only one who could. Thus we have the birth of God's opposite, Satan.

You cannot know evil in the presence of God since he is almighty. Thus there were two trees in the garden of Eden; life and knowledge of good and evil. It symbolizes two choices that mankind was given. Either be free of evil and exist with God or know of evil and be cast out from God. This was God's dilemma. How do we obtain knowledge of evil and thus obtain true love and still exist in His presence? The answer of course is through Jesus.

 

[Breckmin]

If God is all that is good, evil was necessary to give mankind freewill.

There will be freewill in heaven without evil. God did NOT create "sin."
"Sin" is the potential bi-product of choice. God DID create beings with
"choice." Disobedience was a potential existence (God is Omniscient) but
not an actual existence until someone disobeyed. God did NOT create
their disobedience. He created them with a WILL to be able to disobey.

There is a difference.

Freewill is necessary if God desired true love and not robots. Now, if this evil was necessary, God must have created it,

No. Just because knowledge of disobedience is necessary to NOT disobey,
[and you also need "motive"] (Love in response to God's Incredible Self-Sacrificing
Love and election of us out of those who are perishing), does NOT mean
that God created the disobedience or the sin.

God's KNOWLEDGE of disobedience is not the creation of it....neither is it
your creation when your teenagers exercise their freewill to misbehave.
Even if you knew it before hand...before you decided to pro-create your
children.... it would still NOT be your creation (their sin).

since He is the only one who could.

Unless He created beings who could create their own disobedience.

Thus we have the birth of God's opposite, Satan.

God's enemy, yes. And our enemy since we are born-again of God, yes.
But is satan and his demons really an "opposite" of God? I know this may
seem to be nitpicking and hyper-technical... but it is very important to
understand that good and evil are NOT exact opposites. Good is the
standand...disobedience is no standard at all. I would also ask "can
an Infinite Creator even have an opposite?" Can something finite be
an opposite of something infinite?

You cannot know evil in the presence of God since he is almighty.

I would agree with you if you had said "cannot commit acts of disobedience"
in the presence of God...but won't we have knowledge of good and evil
in heaven? Won't we know what evil is so we can finally NEVER choose
to do it?

Thus there were two trees in the garden of Eden; life and knowledge of good and evil. It symbolizes two choices that mankind was given. Either be free of evil and exist with God or know of evil and be cast out from God.

Beside from the question of two choices verses two things to choose
from...and I realize that there is continuous nitpicking here that may
seem unreasonable...I am concerned with "know OF evil" and being
cast out from God. Clearly Jesus knows of evil even though He has
never commited any sin and has never disobeyed God.

This was God's dilemma. How do we obtain knowledge of evil and thus obtain true love and still exist in His presence?

Knowledge of evil can be "observed" in others and learned this way.
The angels who did not fall can learn from those who did fall with lucifer.
Just as Jesus can observe evil in others and have knowledge of it and
NOT commit it Himself.

What you need to do is go back to the beginning and understand the
difference between a heaven which "loses" a child of God for all of eternity
because God started with heaven without us having a knowledge of good
and evil. It is much different than SAVING a child of God out of those
who are logically lost. And I mean logically. Eternal hell and separation
are logical to exist because of multiple reasons which must be addressed
in this context. (The role of knowledge, choice, salvation and damnation
and how they are inevitable).

The answer of course is through Jesus.

Agreed. It is the Perfect Sacrifice of God becoming a Man and dying on
the Cross for our sins that makes the creation of beings capable of LOVE
and choice logical again.

It is the Holy Spirit of God Who opens our eyes up to this Perfect Logic.

 

[Breckmin]

No.

The answer is clearly NO. God did NOT create sin and disobedience
so when we talk about the "evil" of sin or disobedience or lack of faith
(logically trusting in the God Who loves you), we are talking about
something that God did NOT directly create.

 

[Zeena]

If God is all that is good, evil was necessary to give mankind freewill.

If god was all that was good, then we would be construde as polytheist, rather than monotheist.

Freewill is necessary if God desired true love and not robots. Now, if this evil was necessary,

Hold it, since when is freewill [eg;free choice] evil?

God must have created it,

You are saying that it was gods will that Adam sinned, as god 'created' that choice?

since He is the only one who could.

Then, praytell, how could the Apostle write thus;

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You understand there is a war raging in the spirutual realm, no?
You understand that the devil and his minions attempt to coerce mankind with perverse thoughts, thoughts that are not of God, or no?

Otherwise, HOW could the Apostles speak thus?

Thus we have the birth of God's opposite, Satan.

Satan was not always known as Satan, but he recieved his new name upon becoming depraved of the Light of Christ. He was known as Lucifer before he fell and took a third of the angels with him.. His birth was Glorious, as he was annointed of God before he chose to sin by looking away.. That annointing no longer remains, friend. God is NOT pleased with him. And God is the Allmighty, Soveriegn One.

Does Satan wage war against the Lord, you betcha, but the question is; Does he, CAN he win?

If he cannot win, then HOW is he the opposite of the Allmighty, and not rather, a worm?

You cannot know evil in the presence of God since he is almighty. Thus there were two trees in the garden of Eden; life and knowledge of good and evil. It symbolizes two choices that mankind was given. Either be free of evil and exist with God or know of evil and be cast out from God.

That's not the choice as expounded in the Scripture I read.. The choice is to either abstain, as God commanded, for thier own good, or to partake in unbelief at what God had said about it.

The choice was either to trust Him or not.

This was God's dilemma.

It's not a dilemma to God, for He has provision for us should we chose unwisely, which we did, and so came our Saviour.

He placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden to TEST Adam and Eve. Whether they would BELIEVE and HOLD FAST to what He had told them. They did not, so they fell from Grace, which is by faith. This is what caused them to die!

How do we obtain knowledge of evil and thus obtain true love and still exist in His presence?

Again, it's not knowledge of good and evil that's makes us crooked, but the CHOICE to sin in unbelief, or not.

That's why Adam & Eve died.
They looked away from thier Life source and looked instead unto the devil and themselves for life. False life, MORTAL life, un-life, death.

The answer of course is through Jesus.

The answer is always in and through Jesus.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Zeena]

And then you answer someone's question for him ...?

Nope, but asked another question before I could respond in kind. It wasn't a statement but a question, ergo the question mark at the end of the sentence

I'm sorry, but I would absolutely hope that God completely restrains Satan. Otherwise the Judgment is going to be an absolute riot.

Sure don't seem like God has any enemies, according to the majority of the posters on this thread.

And if God completely restrains Satan ... the sole distinction we're talking about is when. Puppetry is an aspect of your position on Satan, too. It's just a question of when.

As to how God deals with the wills God has Himself made, the Calvinist position is quite clear:

... does not act in people as if they were blocks and stones; nor does it abolish the will and its properties or coerce a reluctant will by force ... Canons of Dordt
​

This quote is speaking of only the regenerate, is it not?
​

So, not puppetry.

So then, it's only 'puppetry' when the unregenerate are concerned?

In point of fact, puppetry is a constant and a ridiculous smear repeated ad nauseum by anti-Calvinists for hundreds of years. It's not the case for Calvinists. Making such a statement is offensive to Calvinists. You should be clear that when you're making such a statement you're forming an attack. Calvinists see God working with persons as persons.

What do you call it when all the evil works of Satan, his evil host, and every wicked and vile sin ever committed through men and nature is committed because God said so and takes the initiative to do it in and through His creation?

This is constantly reiterated, and actually recent philosophical discussions about free will have turned to precisely, exactly this argument as a reason why libertarian free will and incompatibilism are problematic.

Compatibilism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

So, now they intend to [attempt] aboish the doctrine of free choice?

 

[Zeena]

So far you have discussed what Scripture says about the character of Satan (that he was a murderer from the beginning, chose to sin, etc.), and his relationship to human beings (that he tries to deceive them, etc.).

However, it seems you are refraining from telling us what you think Satan's relationship to God is. Does Satan fall within or without God's omnipotent power and sovereignty over His creation?

What relationship?
Satan has no relationship to God.

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Relationship to God is a term used for those who not only believe, but also SUBMIT to Him as thier Authority.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Also, I am still waiting for your substantive reply to the verses I posted earlier in this thread. You still have not shown how you understand them in concert with the beliefs about evil you have propounded through out this thread. I pointed this out to you in my post #184.

I'm still waiting on the Lord... You?

 

[Hismessenger]

Yes, hell is also a created place just like heaven. Does the word not say, heaven and earth will pass away but my word will never fail?
And to correct a misconception, I said that God sustains evil and there are many forms of evil which includes sin as well as disobedience to the will of God, which is the greatest sin we can commit. Evil is the balance by which we are righteously judged.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

And to correct a misconception, I said that God sustains evil and there are many forms of evil which includes sin as well as disobedience to the will of God, which is the greatest sin we can commit.

Job 8:20
Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, Neither will he uphold the evil-doers.

Evil is the balance by which we are righteously judged.

hismessenger

No.. Jesus is 'the bar' now set, by which men everywhere will be Judged.

Matthew 12:6
But I say unto you, that one greater than the temple is here.

Isaiah 28:16-17
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Luke 20:17-18
But he looked upon them, and said, What then is this that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner? Every one that falleth on that stone shall be broken to pieces; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.

1 Peter 2:6-8
Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. For you therefore that believe is the preciousness: but for such as disbelieve, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; and, A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Because of your sins you were sold; because of your transgressions your mother was sent away.

 

[Hismessenger]

A simple but true and direct question which can not be sidestepped.

If God were to end the creation in the next instant where would evil be?

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

A simple but true and direct question which can not be sidestepped.

If God were to end the creation in the next instant where would evil be?

hismessenger

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

Psalm 9:2-7 & 15-20
2 I will be glad and rejoice in you;
I will sing praise to your name, O Most High.
3 My enemies turn back;
they stumble and perish before you.
4 For you have upheld my right and my cause;
you have sat on your throne, judging righteously.
5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
6 Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy,
you have uprooted their cities;
even the memory of them has perished.
7 The LORD reigns forever;
he has established his throne for judgment. 8 He will judge the world in righteousness; he will govern the peoples with justice.

...

15 The nations have fallen into the pit they have dug;
their feet are caught in the net they have hidden.
16 The LORD is known by his justice;
the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands.
Higgaion. Selah
17 The wicked return to the grave,
all the nations that forget God.
18 But the needy will not always be forgotten,
nor the hope of the afflicted ever perish.
19 Arise, O LORD, let not man triumph;
let the nations be judged in your presence. 20 Strike them with terror, O LORD;
let the nations know they are but men.
Selah

Revelation 16.9
They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

Joshua 7:19
Then Joshua said to Achan, "My son, give glory to the LORD, the God of Israel, and give him the praise. Tell me what you have done; do not hide it from me."

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.