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GodLovesCats

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To believe in evolution, one must believe that man came from apes.

I don't believe in evolution myself. I really don't see any evidence for it. Just opinions of what science 'think' happened.

Humans actually ARE apes. We share an ancestor with chimpanzees and other ape species. Evolution from one species to another is not necessary to prove hominidae began with one pair of animals very much like humans and includes humans. But it is definitely proven that the first humans were like chimps.
 
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Lost4words

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Humans actually ARE apes. We share an ancestor with chimpanzees and other ape species. Evolution from one species to another is not necessary to prove hominidae began with one pair of animals very much like humans and includes humans. But it is definitely proven that the first humans were like chimps.

Lots of animals share similar DNA.

I truly believe we are made in the image of God. Not some ape.

Evolution is full of speculation. I see no real hard facts myself.
 
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GodLovesCats

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You don't get it. The Tree of Life (kingdom to subspecies one) puts humans, chimps, and other hominidae species together in one group. Then they diverge into smaller groups. So we are in the group called great apes, along with a few other species, at the genus level. The separation is at the species level below it. If you need to see a taxonomic tree of life to understand this, I would be happy to show you.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I assume that is an argument of some type in favor of evolutionism
Of course a vain argument (empty), since the natural man (men unregenerate) are not 'privy' to understand anything spiritual (truth). Thus calling on any natural man (or group) to supposedly support anything, is (I guess) an "epic fail" from the start, with no foundation to build on.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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To believe in evolution, one must believe that man came from apes.

I dont believe in evolution myself. I really dont see any evidence for it. Just opinions of what science 'think' happened.
And not at all all science - only that which opposes God, wittingly or unwittingly.
Honest 'science' agrees with God. (this should , it seems, be obvious, especially amongst 'Christians')
 
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GodLovesCats

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Of course a vain argument (empty), since the natural man (men unregenerate) are not 'privy' to understand anything spiritual (truth). Thus calling on any natural man (or group) to supposedly support anything, is (I guess) an "epic fail" from the start, with no foundation to build on.

Everything you have said about man not knowing the truth is 100% based on not knowing the truth at all yourself because man DOES have the truth with a (literally and figuratively) rock-solid foundation to build on. The "epic fail" is any attempt to disprove what has already been proven many times worldwide.
And not at all all science - only that which opposes God, wittingly or unwittingly. Honest "science" agrees with God. This should, it seems, be obvious, especially amongst "Christians."

Don't you dare imply in any way all people who know the proven facts about evolution are not Christians. Some are, some arent, and you don't know which is which unless they all state their religions. Earlier this week you claimed all science is against God unless it is in the Bible.

I kept asking you why you this same question and you have still not answered it. Until you do, I will keep asking it. What part of "the Bible is not a science book" don't you understand?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Some are, some arent, and you don't know which is which unless they state their religions.
When they state openly what they think they know, we can appropriately know then if that fact that they think they know is true or not, after testing it .... Has nothing to do with them being a Christian, does it?

This also has nothing to do with any religion stated by them, or not stated by them, nor actually to any religion at all, unless it is already a known group opposed to Yahuweh cad denying Jesus and His Word.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And what makes what they think they know opposed to God's Word?
Nothing makes what they think they know opposed to God's Word unless what they think they know is opposed to God's Word. It either is or it is not. (as written)

"Whoever thinks they know anything, does not know anything yet". (A favorite Scripture for some particulars)
 
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BobRyan

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All of my arguments favor evolutionism because I know it has been proven .

"yes its true.. I just know its true.. it is" that is the kind of "reasoning" that Patterson claims is filling the doctrinal halls of belief in evolutionism.

Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians
"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"
...

"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...

It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...

about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolution as revealed truth in some way."

That is a believer in evolutionism speaking .. to his peers, not a creationist.

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

Details matter
 
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GodLovesCats

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That is a believer in evolutionism speaking .. to his peers, not a creationist.

It is not an evolutionist reporting his findings of a long-term international study that disproves evolution - which is what I have been telling you to show me. Because you can't show me that, you are wrong.
 
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BobRyan

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All of my arguments favor evolutionism because I know it has been proven .

"yes its true.. I just know its true.. it is" that is the kind of "reasoning" that Patterson claims is filling the doctrinal halls of belief in evolutionism.

Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians
"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"
...

"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...

It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...

about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolution as revealed truth in some way."

That is a believer in evolutionism speaking .. to his peers, not a creationist.

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

Details matter

It is not an evolutionist reporting his findings of a long-term international study .

Its an atheist evolutionist - a world class scientist, standing before a group of his peers and making some very brutal observations about their "belief" in evolutionism. To which his peers respond with dead silence until one of them reluctantly confesses "I do know one thing... it ought not be taught in high school"

Those are not creationists - rather they are true believers in blind faith evolutionism.

And you respond to their frank confessions as if you would be willing to sell them all down river for their blasphemy - since they failed to flatter faith in evolutionism in their every remark.
 
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-57

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When Genesis 1 said God created the earth in six days, i believe the word 'day' means a stage. In first stage, God creates light, second stage atmosphere.. fourth stage marine life etc. God created in an orderly manner, stage by stage.

Why did the Bible use the word 'day'? The Scripture is a religious manuscript, not a science text book. The word 'day' fits the prose of writing in a religious manuscript. It is not a literal 24 hour day.

That concept may sound true...but when the days are numbered...day 1, day 2, etc. and when the days are bracketed with evening and morning (daily terms)....support for literal 24 hour long days is presented.
 
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-57

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Humans actually ARE apes. We share an ancestor with chimpanzees and other ape species. Evolution from one species to another is not necessary to prove hominidae began with one pair of animals very much like humans and includes humans. But it is definitely proven that the first humans were like chimps.

The problem with this theological concept is that it does away with the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

When and how did the evolving chimp like species...begin to sin? Genesis tells us. Your answer will require a non-biblical interpretation...or should I say insertion.
 
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Job 33:6

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Lots of animals share similar DNA.

I truly believe we are made in the image of God. Not some ape.

Evolution is full of speculation. I see no real hard facts myself.

It's really about more than just similar looking DNA. It's also DNA that has differences which make genomes look as if they descended from a common ancestor.

For example, let's say you have a fish with genes AAAA. And you have an amphibian with DNA AAAT. You might consider that the two are related, as their DNA appears to depict the occurance of a point mutation. It isn't the similarity that we are looking at, rather it's the difference. It Is the mutation that we look at. Just the same, a reptile with DNA AACT would be considered more distant in relation to the fish because there are more difference in their genome.

It's relatedness via differences that look like changes made by mutations. As if they are related.

The same goes with a paternity test. If a woman wants to know the father of her child, they look for differences in DNA that suggest ancestry and modification as a product of mutations.

And those differences look as if they were a product of mutation.

Thankfully we can observe mutations and changes in DNA in the present time, so it isn't a mystery to us how those differences from the ancestral genome came to be.

Until someone has a logical argument against paternity tests, they don't really have ground to argue that say alligators and crocodiles aren't related or ostriches and penguins or wolves and tigers etc. Because common ancestry between all these animals is concluded in the exact same way that paternity tests are.

And this only makes sense in light of common descent. If I were a young earth creationist, I'd have no reason to believe that a flowering plant or seeded plant shared more or less differences in DNA to non vascular plants. I also would have no understanding of why plants appear in order in the fossil record to begin with.

Can any young earther explain why non vasculars predate vasculars which predate seeded which predate flowering? No, they can't.

At best Creationists will tell you that flowering plants ran away from flood waters to higher ground faster than seeded plants, or that flood waters deposited fossils of the earth in an order based on differences in their DNA.

Or they might say that aquatic animals predated land based animals, while simultaneously ignoring species like whales which came after land animals and of course whales have shared DNA differences with hippos and appear in the fossil record at the same time as ungulates (hippos, giraffes etc). But it's just some fluke where the flood waters happened to deposit prehistoric whales right near land based ungulates in some sort of bizarre coincidence of the fossil record.
 
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