Gay Conversion Therapy

[Inkfingers]

Psychologists understand that same-sex attractions, feelings, and behavior are normal variants of human sexuality

Psychologists used to hold that it was a mental disorder. I wonder if you'd have considered it authoritative back then....

There is no way that it can be a normal part of human sexuality as it goes against the nature and purpose of the sexes themselves. The categories of male and female only came to exist because they are the two sides of procreation. And sexual attraction is about bringing them together.

Being attracted to the same sex is faulty circuitry, by definition. Calling it normal is like looking at someone born with half an arm and saying that is just a different kind of limb.

 

[mindlight]

Psychologists used to hold that it was a mental disorder. I wonder if you'd have considered it authoritative back then....

There is no way that it can be a normal part of human sexuality as it goes against the nature and purpose of the sexes themselves. The categories of male and female only came to exist because they are the two sides of procreation. And sexual attraction is about bringing them together.

Being attracted to the same sex is faulty circuitry, by definition. Calling it normal is like looking at someone born with half an arm and saying that is just a different kind of limb.

I was not agreeing with the quote. The point was to demonstrate that the socalled science against gay conversion therapy is actually ideologically motivated.

 

[Inkfingers]

I was not agreeing with the quote. The point was to demonstrate that the socalled science against gay conversion therapy is actually ideologically motivated.

Ah, my apologies that willl teach me to not to rush through posts

 

[KCfromNC]

Your words, not mine.

Actually, it looks like it is from St. Augustine, but obviously facts aren't important here.

Well, no, no you were not. What I was describing is really not complex, and dramatically different from what you are writing here.

It's not hard to understand what I was saying. I think you get what I was saying. I think you really just don't care. There is no point in me trying to have an honest conversation about things with you when you don't want to be honest about what is being said.

Weird how you spend time complaining that I don't get a simple point instead of just stating what that point is. It is almost as if there's actually no defense for the hypocrisy I pointed out and this is just bluster to distract from the fact.

As such, I'm going to promote you. Along with the Gold Star you get from @SilverBear , you get official membership in my Ignored Users List. Congratulations.

Heh, declare victory and run away. Not exactly the sign of someone that can support what they're saying.

 

[SilverBear]

What is the scientific evidence on homosexuality|is homosexuality genetic|are brains gay?|What causes homosexuality|Get the book My Genes Made Me Do It|Twin Studies and homosexuality|role of epigenetics in homosexuality, brain plasticity and homosexuality,hormones and homosexuality, can sexuality change in mid-lilfe, upbringing and homosexuality|can sexual orientation change?

Ex-Gays? - InterVarsity Press

Talk about propaganda.


May be you woudl do better if you got your information from places other than the websites of hate groups.

This is all typical garbage and junk science. the main body of your links were written by Dr. Neil Whitehead...what kind of doctor is he? well he isn't a medical doctor or a psychiatrist or a psychologist, or a sociologist. He is a chemist. He gets for actually being a doctor of something but form what i could find he works testing water purity....not what anyone would consider an expert on human sexuality.

Typical of this sort of junk science misinformation abounds. He doesn't seem to have a working knowledge of the subjects like genetics.

 

[SilverBear]

If you do not believe me then perhaps you can believe your own people in the APA on this.

I'm in agreement with the APA

The below is a statement that cannot be substantiated by science and is in effect an ideological assertion that stands in the face of every major religion, the majority of world opinion and historical conclusion

Argumentum Ad Populum. It's a logical fallacy. Just because a belief is popular that does not make it true

and is scientifically false also since the vast majority of people are not gay:

the vast majority of people are not left handed. So obviously the claim that being left handed is just a normal human variation is wrong. The very idea that left handedness is normal stands in the face of the history every major religion, and world opinion.

 

[PloverWing]

Be careful, folks, about sales pitches like the one in the previous post. I know that some gay people reading this forum may be desperate to change their sexual orientation. Don't let salesmen take advantage of your emotional state to part you from your money.

Edit: Good, the sales-pitch post has been deleted. Thanks, moderators!

 

[Tinker Grey]

Be care, folks, about sales pitches like the one in the previous post.

Don't let anyone say you should change because they say their religion says so.

ETA: Apparently the post I responded to back in August was deleted.

 

[Just Trying to Help_]

Why did you ban me? I am not a salesman nor am I trying to sell anything. If you’d taken a closer look at the link I put in there, you’d see the option to “make your own” Bio Tuner. How is that trying to sell something?

What was actually happening is I was trying to give people some hope, because there IS a device out there that can help people go from gay to straight, if that’s what they want. If not, then why are they reading this forum? Here’s another one: TrueHope. It’s a multivitamin that fixes just about every psychological disorder out there. Either of these solutions might not work for everyone but why not talk solutions? Are you willing to stand before God and admit that maybe you could’ve actually helped prevent a suicide? This is serious stuff and every option out there to prevent a SINGLE SUICIDE should be taken seriously!

It seems that all you guys want to do is argue about why people do or don’t need conversion therapy. I’m not trying to make an argument, just trying to share a solution that worked for me, without spending hours of my life trying to convince people I’m not a salesman. I have nothing to gain — just an obligation to God to help out the human race with something I have tested myself and know to work!

Be care, folks, about sales pitches like the one in the previous post.

Don't let anyone say you should change because they say their religion says so.

h

 

[PloverWing]

Why did you ban me? I am not a salesman nor am I trying to sell anything. If you’d taken a closer look at the link I put in there, you’d see the option to “make your own” Bio Tuner. How is that trying to sell something?

Here’s another one: TrueHope. It’s a multivitamin that fixes just about every psychological disorder out there.

Gay young people in conservative communities may find themselves rejected by their families or their churches. They may believe themselves to be rejected by God. A person in this situation is emotionally vulnerable, and some are desperate enough to try "treatments" that don't reliably work. If the "treatment" is harmless -- eating extra lima beans, or going for long walks, or something like that, then, fine, try it if you want to. But if the "treatment" costs money, or does harm to the patient, then I want to step in and try to protect the patient from being cheated or harmed.

Your web site appeared to be selling a dubious product, and the selling part bothered me. Now that I've looked more closely, I see that there is a link that tells you how to assemble a gadget ("Brain Tuner"?) on your own, if you have the right electronics skills and just the right collection of odd spare parts in the house. But if someone looks at your site and says "Never mind all that, I'm no electronics wizard, I'll just buy one", then we're back to selling quack science products to the vulnerable.

As a Christian, I feel it is my moral duty to protect vulnerable people from being exploited financially. It looks to me like that's what your web site is doing.

 

[mala]

the vast majority of people are not left handed. So obviously the claim that being left handed is just a normal human variation is wrong. The very idea that left handedness is normal stands in the face of the history every major religion, and world opinion.

actually us left handed people are quite normal for humans. it's the rest of you right handed freaks that aren't human.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Why did you ban me? I am not a salesman nor am I trying to sell anything. If you’d taken a closer look at the link I put in there, you’d see the option to “make your own” Bio Tuner. How is that trying to sell something?

What was actually happening is I was trying to give people some hope, because there IS a device out there that can help people go from gay to straight, if that’s what they want. If not, then why are they reading this forum?

Most gay people aren't reading this forum. People that defend gay people might post on here. A few gay people might be on here. But most Gay and lesbians live their lives . And never post on here. As for your ban. I have no idea. They seem to be touchy about gay rights and defending it. And being honest about how bad Trump is. Who knows why you got banned.

 

[Just Trying to Help_]

Ok well sorry if my posts offended anyone, guess it was just kind of the wrong conversation to post that in.

 

[SilverBear]

actually us left handed people are quite normal for humans. it's the rest of you right handed freaks that aren't human.

yes, i know that. i was simply using left handedness substituted into mindlights argument to show how poorly thought out the whole thing was

 

[Zoii]

Psychologists used to hold that it was a mental disorder. I wonder if you'd have considered it authoritative back then....

There is no way that it can be a normal part of human sexuality as it goes against the nature and purpose of the sexes themselves. The categories of male and female only came to exist because they are the two sides of procreation. And sexual attraction is about bringing them together.

Being attracted to the same sex is faulty circuitry, by definition. Calling it normal is like looking at someone born with half an arm and saying that is just a different kind of limb.

The analogy to be considered is that religious schools were particularly strict with left-handed children. They considered it not to be normal Faulty circuitry. They enforced right-handedness. Historically left-handedness was considered to be of the devil. Now we know such conversion therapies were unnecessary and actually harmful.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I was not agreeing with the quote. The point was to demonstrate that the socalled science against gay conversion therapy is actually ideologically motivated.

There's actually some pretty basic data that can be looked at to infer which strategies are more effective than others.

So if we take a look at this map showing the gay suicide attempt rate by region:

...there's a very distinct, noticeable difference based on region. If it was an issue, purely of mental state, then one would expect the suicide attempt rate to be uniform across the nation.

The fact that areas of the country that try conversion therapy and religious indoctrination to "fix" people have nearly double the suicide rate of places like the Northeast, where people are a little more accepting, is quite telling indeed. Basically, it's like saying "it's so important that I push my moral code onto others, that doubling their risk of suicide is worth the trade off"


Even if people feel it is wrong, it's still very much a "let's punish this victimless crime I don't like" attitude. If two people are consenting adults, and they're not bothering anyone else, then why does anyone care what they're doing?

My other issue is that the people who crusade against "all things same sex" are the same ones who tend to be particularly lax when it comes to other "sins". Almost as if they want to over-demonize the "sins" that they, themselves, find it easy to abstain from. I've yet to see any churches insist that their overweight members go to "gluttony conversion therapy"...nor have I seen them suggest covetousness conversion therapy when people in their congregation start buying large TV's rather than using their resources to help others. I haven't seen any bakers refuse service to Obese customers wanting to by pastries on biblical grounds.

Seems like they want to take a hard line on anything and everything that falls into their categorization of "sexual impurity", but the rest of the "sins" seem to get a nonchalant "eh, try not to do it, if you do, it's not a huge deal" response.

 

[Mayzoo]

yes, i know that. i was simply using left handedness substituted into mindlights argument to show how poorly thought out the whole thing was

I think he/she was being humorous .

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Be careful, folks, about sales pitches like the one in the previous post. I know that some gay people reading this forum may be desperate to change their sexual orientation.

I doubt it. I think most gay people are learning ,that being gay isn't really a choice. It's not the old in day. Where they have to hide in closets in fear of being found out. Beat and killed. Gay people have lives of their own. And they are living them.

 

[PloverWing]

I doubt it. I think most gay people are learning ,that being gay isn't really a choice. It's not the old in day. Where they have to hide in closets in fear of being found out. Beat and killed. Gay people have lives of their own. And they are living them.

I think you're right for some demographics and some parts of the country. But I still hear stories of parents rejecting their children for being in a same-sex marriage, or people being told that anyone in a same-sex marriage is going to hell. So I think there are still gay people out there who are afraid, or who hate their orientation. I want to make sure no one takes advantage of that fear for their own gain, just in case.

 

[Zoii]

I wondered if any have seen the movies recently released, 'Boy Erased'. It portrays the conversion therapy negatively and untherapeutic. What I found curious, was that the coordinator of the program, who styled the program using religious education, ended up in a gay relationship and married another man.

Just such a curious outcome.