Gay Conversion Therapy

[SilverBear]

Wait, wait, wait. This is just a survey of patient opinions? I was confidently assured that these were meaningless a few pages back.

you get a gold star for noticing that

 

[KarateCowboy]

The important thing to remember, though, is that Christians love the sinner.

Your words, not mine.

Wait, wait, wait. This is just a survey of patient opinions? I was confidently assured that these were meaningless a few pages back.

Well, no, no you were not. What I was describing is really not complex, and dramatically different from what you are writing here.

It's not hard to understand what I was saying. I think you get what I was saying. I think you really just don't care. There is no point in me trying to have an honest conversation about things with you when you don't want to be honest about what is being said. As such, I'm going to promote you. Along with the Gold Star you get from @SilverBear , you get official membership in my Ignored Users List. Congratulations.

 

[1000Flames]

If you ignore enough users, you can essentially create your own space! Pretty novel idea. Echo chambers are very comfortable.

 

[KarateCowboy]

If you ignore enough users, you can essentially create your own space! Pretty novel idea. Echo chambers are very comfortable.

Cool. Welcome to the list.

 

[mindlight]

Sorry that just isn't true. Even studies done internally at ex-gay religious programs using strictly adults committed to the process show the same if not worse results. No one changes orientation, not even among adults fully committed to the idea of conversion. Sadly the potential for harm is much much worse for these people. When your motivations for participation are based on your faith - what happens to that faith when you realize that no, you can't pray the gay away?

You might want to reconsider that position since there are ex gays.

 

[mindlight]

I,m not informed enough to dispute what you say. What I can say though is that those practising conversion have not been able to show longitudinal objective evidence of any merit. On the contrary it has faced considerable complaints.

This is the main political and ideological focus of Leftist politics right now. But do not let the propaganda blind you. People who were gay no longer are gay. It happens.

 

[mindlight]

My interest in this topic is why is gay conversion is even attempted. Being gay in itself is it a sin?

Romans 1 26:28 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

In a nutshell the bible does not condone homosexual sexual acts

Jude 1: 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Again the bible does not condone homosexual sexual acts or straight sexual acts outside of marriage. Perversion isnt defined though.

Now this then isnt about homosexuality - its about homosexual sex. Even heterosexual men are known to have committed sodomy or other sexual acts with men or animals. You dont have to be homosexual to commit a homosexual act... ie its well known that men may not be same sex attracted but will commit a same-sex sexual act

So I note theres been a lot of innaccurate comments about how god hates homosexuals etc etc - imo thats innaccurate - he does not condone a same sex sexual act regardless of ones sexual attraction ie straight bi or gay.

On that basis why is there a focus on not being gay - should the focus be on straight men/women and gay men/women not committing a same-sex sexual act.

In any case I dont support any of it and tend to think regardless of what you are thats noone elses business...thats another issue again.

You are right the bible sees all of us as made in Gods image yet somehow broken by sin. The actions we perform are the crucial guide to how we play the cards we were dealt.

For example regular drunkeness is something some people are more vulnerable to than others. As someone who has repented of this I know change is possible cause I have not had a drink in 20 years aside from communion wine which usually tastes awful.

Repentance is key to our response to God. This political ideological attempt to outlaw a form of repentance is deeply antiChristian.
When we stop believing change for the better is possible we start accepting that things are only going to get worse.

The Right to Counseling for Unwanted Same-Sex Attractions

 

[Zoii]

This is the main political and ideological focus of Leftist politics right now. But do not let the propaganda blind you. People who were gay no longer are gay. It happens.

I'm not disputing what you say. what I'm stating is that conversion therapies haven't been able to demonstrate longitudinal objective evidence of efficacy

 

[Zoii]

You are right the bible sees all of us as made in Gods image yet somehow broken by sin. The actions we perform are the crucial guide to how we play the cards we were dealt.

For example regular drunkeness is something some people are more vulnerable to than others. As someone who has repented of this I know change is possible cause I have not had a drink in 20 years aside from communion wine which usually tastes awful.

Repentance is key to our response to God. This political ideological attempt to outlaw a form of repentance is deeply antiChristian.
When we stop believing change for the better is possible we start accepting that things are only going to get worse.

The Right to Counseling for Unwanted Same-Sex Attractions

I agree that adults who are mentally competent and are fully informed of the details of treatment, has the right to access a therapy. That's altogether different for minors

 

[mindlight]

I agree that adults who are mentally competent and are fully informed of the details of treatment, has the right to access a therapy. That's altogether different for minors

Biblically Bar Mitzwa was at 12 which was before the hormonal chaos of a persons emerging sexual identity. Today a parent is regarded as responsible for those years and the child is kept in state institutions pushing leftist ideological agendas through school and then often higher education. If a minor is in agreement with the goals I see no problem here. If it is forced on him then it will not work and especially since the false virtue signalling of his environment will leave him confused.

 

[mindlight]

I'm not disputing what you say. what I'm stating is that conversion therapies haven't been able to demonstrate longitudinal objective evidence of efficacy

As the link I shared demonstrated many of these socalled scientific reviews were composed by biased often mainly gay activist participants. They do not demonstrate what you assume.

 

[Zoii]

Biblically Bar Mitzwa was at 12 which was before the hormonal chaos of a persons emerging sexual identity. Today a parent is regarded as responsible for those years and the child is kept in state institutions pushing leftist ideological agendas through school and then often higher education. If a minor is in agreement with the goals I see no problem here. If it is forced on him then it will not work and especially since the false virtue signalling of his environment will leave him confused.

I cannot speak for the UK - but neither ideological agendas nor schooling has anything to do with the decision to exclude minors from gay conversion in my country. It has everything to do with all medical and psychological treatments needing to demonstrate safety, efficacy and appropriate governance and quality management. This is to stop individuals, companies and institutions doing dodgy practices that are potentially harmful. The practice of gay conversion has not been able to fulfil those standards which has to be regarded as a concern if it cannot demonstrate safety and efficacy.

Now if adults none the less want to proceed so be it. That's a different case for minors, and although you are advocating that minors can make complex treatment decisions at age 12 and should be free to do what they wish, our government disagrees with you; and I suspect yours does too.

 

[Zoii]

As the link I shared demonstrated many of these socalled scientific reviews were composed by biased often mainly gay activist participants. They do not demonstrate what you assume.

Where are you getting that information. Can you please attach the link showing the research into gay conversion was from those that were gay activists - or are you just espousing something you think

 

[SilverBear]

Today a parent is regarded as responsible for those years and the child is kept in state institutions pushing leftist ideological agendas through school and then often higher education.

These are called facts.

 

[Zoii]

These are called facts.

I am happy to discuss facts but no-one to date has shown that evidence.

 

[SilverBear]

As the link I shared demonstrated many of these socalled scientific reviews were composed by biased often mainly gay activist participants. They do not demonstrate what you assume.

I had not looked at this link before but when i read your post i guessed the link was for something from Focus on the Family (and i was right) Focus has a long history of making these false claims.

I read this entire link but stooped counting the number of false statements when I hit 12.

at no point the Focus demonstrate that ANY of "these socalled scientific reviews were composed by biased often mainly gay activist participants."
even if they did manage to demonstrate that it wouldn't show the findings of the research to be false.

 

[mindlight]

These are called facts.

Facts are fine but do not pretend there is not also an ideological input these days. I was a teacher in this system. LGBT propaganda is being forced on school kids

 

[mindlight]

I am happy to discuss facts but no-one to date has shown that evidence.

What is the scientific evidence on homosexuality|is homosexuality genetic|are brains gay?|What causes homosexuality|Get the book My Genes Made Me Do It|Twin Studies and homosexuality|role of epigenetics in homosexuality, brain plasticity and homosexuality,hormones and homosexuality, can sexuality change in mid-lilfe, upbringing and homosexuality|can sexual orientation change?

Ex-Gays? - InterVarsity Press

 

[mindlight]

I cannot speak for the UK - but neither ideological agendas nor schooling has anything to do with the decision to exclude minors from gay conversion in my country. It has everything to do with all medical and psychological treatments needing to demonstrate safety, efficacy and appropriate governance and quality management. This is to stop individuals, companies and institutions doing dodgy practices that are potentially harmful. The practice of gay conversion has not been able to fulfil those standards which has to be regarded as a concern if it cannot demonstrate safety and efficacy.

Now if adults none the less want to proceed so be it. That's a different case for minors, and although you are advocating that minors can make complex treatment decisions at age 12 and should be free to do what they wish, our government disagrees with you; and I suspect yours does too.

The point about the biblical rite of passage was more that it signals a man becomes a man and a woman a woman before their sexual identity goes through the hormonal tests of adolescence. Society then affirms them in their growing gender identity. Full maturity was regarded to occur at the later age of 30. We live in a world where the communities affirmation of right and wrong, identity and belonging is broken or now false.

 

[mindlight]

I had not looked at this link before but when i read your post i guessed the link was for something from Focus on the Family (and i was right) Focus has a long history of making these false claims.

I read this entire link but stooped counting the number of false statements when I hit 12.

at no point the Focus demonstrate that ANY of "these socalled scientific reviews were composed by biased often mainly gay activist participants."
even if they did manage to demonstrate that it wouldn't show the findings of the research to be false.

If you do not believe me then perhaps you can believe your own people in the APA on this. The below is a statement that cannot be substantiated by science and is in effect an ideological assertion that stands in the face of every major religion, the majority of world opinion and historical conclusion and is scientifically false also since the vast majority of people are not gay:

Psychologists understand that same-sex attractions, feelings, and behavior are normal variants of human sexuality

Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Clients