Full Preterist Safe House

Ed Parenteau

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Christ will return on the Mount of Olives, as he ascended, fulfilling prophecy shown in Zechariah in the end on that occasion about Yahweh coming and setting foot on the Mount of Olives, in the end at a battle against God and God's people at Jerusalem. Christ as Yahweh in the prophecy will return to the same location coming from heaven, to the Mount of Olives. An army from heaven is not shown to be definitely the saints returning to earth. You know that there is an angelic army, right? When are those of that army going to be of use?
It is purely from the imaginary doctrines of men the Christ is coming in a physical body of flesh and bones.
John 14: 18“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19“After a little whle the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
Acts 10: 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
In Acts 1: 11They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”
He left in a body that was granted to be seen by a few chosen people but that the world would no longer see Him. Keep in mind that He was received in a cloud out of their sight and that He was coming in the clouds of heaven in the glory of the Father.

One must put it in context of who would be there to see it all.

Matthew 26:
63But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.” (Here Jesus quotes Psalm 110:1
The LORD said to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." (He's letting them who are going to brutally murder him that they are his enemies and he is coming in judgement against them.) Rev. 1: 7BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Here's Jesus speaking to the disciples concerning the persecution they will suffer after He has gone to heaven.
Matthew 10: 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 16:
27For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Then Paul says the same thing except it's from his perspective stated in the first person present tense:
1 Thessalonians 4: 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
 
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parousia70

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Let's look at "like manner". Now, how did He leave? He simply ascended. The observers saw Him til he entered a cloud. So, how will He return ? He will simply DESCEND.

I live in Oregon. How are my physical Eyes Going to see Jesus descend upon the Mt of Olives in like manner as he ascended?
(I'll see it on TV is not an acceptable answer)

Difference will be, He will be in His full power & glory, will be seen by all, even those who pierced Him, from hades, & He will be accompanied by all the saints.

So its not physical, optically visible event across the globe then? since those In Hades don't have physical eyes? (And since people in Japan - or Oregon - can't see Jerusalem with their physical eyes)...
It will be seen by ALL "Spiritually"?
Is that your contention?
 
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robycop3

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If MAN can show an event such as the Super Bowl worldwide as it happens, how much more can JESUS do ? After all HE gave mankind the knowledge of how to do that. His word says EVERY EYE shall see Him, even the eyes of those who pierced Him. That should be enough for any Christian to accept that fact.
 
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parousia70

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If MAN can show an event such as the Super Bowl worldwide as it happens, how much more can JESUS do ?

Remember, TV is not an acceptable answer. Plenty of folks living off the grid with no TV's who never see the superbowl..In fact, most Human beings on earth do not "see" the Superbowl, ever. TV is a poor, incapable vehicle to achieve "every eye shall see".

After all HE gave mankind the knowledge of how to do that. His word says EVERY EYE shall see Him, even the eyes of those who pierced Him. That should be enough for any Christian to accept that fact.

Got it... so you believe it will be some kind of supernatural/spiritual "seeing" and not physical optical seeing, since again, it is impossible for me to optically see Jerusalem form Portland Oregon by looking out my window with Physical Eyes, and those in Hades have no physical eyes...So, as you have concluded, "every eye Shall See" Must therefore mean "every spiritual eye shall spiritually see".

Makes sense.
 
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robycop3

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Remember what Gabriel told Mary when she asked him how could she become pregnant when she'd never 'slept' with a man? He told mher, "With GOD, ALL thinga are possible."

Since Jesus is God, along with His Father & the Holy Spirit, it's possible for Him to cause EVERYONE to see His return, which is what He said would happen. I don't know the nutz-n boltz of how He will do it, but as He said it would occur, that settles it for me !
 
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parousia70

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Remember what Gabriel told Mary when she asked him how could she become pregnant when she'd never 'slept' with a man? He told mher, "With GOD, ALL thinga are possible."

Since Jesus is God, along with His Father & the Holy Spirit, it's possible for Him to cause EVERYONE to see His return, which is what He said would happen. I don't know the nutz-n boltz of how He will do it, but as He said it would occur, that settles it for me !

Then we Both agree "every eye shall see" could ONLY happen by God giving us "eyes to see", and is not something that can intrinsically be 'seen by every eye', without God's supernatural intervention in opening up our spiritual eyes to see it... same goes for those In Hades without Physical eyes...

We agree it was to be a supernatural event, visible only in Judea with physical eyes, but nevertheless visible across the globe with Spiritual eyes only.

Nice to find area of agreement with you Roby :)
 
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Ed Parenteau

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Then we Both agree "every eye shall see" could ONLY happen by God giving us "eyes to see", and is not something that can intrinsically be 'seen by every eye', without God's supernatural intervention in opening up our spiritual eyes to see it... same goes for those In Hades without Physical eyes...

We agree it was to be a supernatural event, visible only in Judea with physical eyes, but nevertheless visible across the globe with Spiritual eyes only.

Nice to find area of agreement with you Roby :)
Just like John the Baptist claiming Isaiah's prophecy being fulfilled here: Luke 3:
4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, "THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.

5 EVERY RAVINE WILL BE FILLED, AND EVERY MOUNTAIN AND HILL WILL BE BROUGHT LOW; THE CROOKED WILL BECOME STRAIGHT, AND THE ROUGH ROADS SMOOTH;

6 AND ALL FLESH WILL SEE The salvation of God."
I guess there was TV back then too.
 
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Jack Terrence

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It says Jesus will come again to the earth in like manner as he went up. You say then that he won't. Right? So you say that passage is wrong? In like manner does not mean entirely in the same way, anyway.
Ton tropon doesn't mean "in like manner." That reflects translator bias. Ton tropon is used 4 times in the new testament and in all other instances it means "as certainly as." It means "as certainly as" in Acts 1:11 also.
 
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Jack Terrence

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And all the other things Jesus then said are just-as-literal
Not true! In the upper room at the Supper Jesus said that he had spoken to his disciples figuratively about many things including things to come.

These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language John 16:25 NKJV
 
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robycop3

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Not true! In the upper room at the Supper Jesus said that he had spoken to his disciples figuratively about many things including things to come.

These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language John 16:25 NKJV
But when Jesus answered their questions in Matt. 24, that was mostly LITERAL.
 
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parousia70

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But when Jesus answered their questions in Matt. 24, that was mostly LITERAL.
Please point us to the passage in Matthew 24 where Jesus LITERALLY Answers their question about when the temple would fall?
 
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parousia70

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He didn't say 'when'. He said it would be destroyed,

So you're saying he did NOT answer that specific question?

He said it would be destroyed in vs 2 of Matthew 24.
The Apostles then, in verse 3, asked him, "WHEN?"

You position is He never answered that question? Neither Literally or Figuratively?

What questions were you claiming He answered literally, and what questions were you claiming He answered figuratively, in your post #290 Above?

which it was, 2 generations later.

Only 2? How long is a generation?
 
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Jack Terrence

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But when Jesus answered their questions in Matt. 24, that was mostly LITERAL.
I would agree with you that Matthew 24 is mostly literal. This is why it must have first century fulfillment. The literal temple was literally destroyed just a Jesus predicted.
 
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robycop3

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So you're saying he did NOT answer that specific question?

He said it would be destroyed in vs 2 of Matthew 24.
The Apostles then, in verse 3, asked him, "WHEN?"

You position is He never answered that question? Neither Literally or Figuratively?

What questions were you claiming He answered literally, and what questions were you claiming He answered figuratively, in your post #290 Above?



Only 2? How long is a generation?
Jesus gave them some signs of His return. Now, the "abomination of desolation didn't occur in the temple then standing, so it's still a future event.

He didn't give them details about the coming beast/antichrist, but he did say there'd be great tribulation, the worst-ever, & that He'd return immediately after it ended.

And all His answers in Matt. 24 were literal.
 
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robycop3

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I would agree with you that Matthew 24 is mostly literal. This is why it must have first century fulfillment. The literal temple was literally destroyed just a Jesus predicted.
But the 'abomination of desolation' didn't occur in it, nor many other things Jesus prophesied. They are still future.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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But the 'abomination of desolation' didn't occur in it, nor many other things Jesus prophesied. They are still future.
1. Who would be there to see it? Basic grade school grammar tells us.
Example: Mark 13: The "you" in vs 14 has as it's antecedent nouns that which is highlighted in vs 3.
3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”
14“But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Or as Luke puts it:
Luke 21: 20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;

Now as to the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION you will find commentators in agreement at Bible hub Mark 13:14 It was the Roman armies with their pagan ensigns.
 
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robycop3

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No, it wasn't. The AOD will be when the antichrist enters the new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem & declare himself to be God.

Neither the great trib nor Jesus' return has occurred yet, and they won't until the antichrist comes & commits the AOD. (Read 2 Thess. 2)

Jesus caused His words he said at that time to be preserved in Scripture. We see He said a great many more things, not only to His disciples, but to many others during His ministry, which were not preserved. He preserved all His words that have significance for us, as well as for those of His time.

Preterism, both full & partial, is phony as a Ford Corvette.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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The AOD will be when the antichrist enters the new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem & declare himself to be God.
100% make believe and unscriptural. 2 Thess 2 doesn't say a new temple yet to be built, but rather to sit in the temple of God. There was one already there. Not a word about the AOD.

Do you not know that in order for Jesus to become our high priest, there had to be a change in the law? And if there was a change in the law and Jesus became our high priest forever, there can never be another temple of God without Jesus having to die again so that there can again be a change in the law.
Hebrews 9:15Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h 16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.
 
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robycop3

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100% make believe and unscriptural. 2 Thess 2 doesn't say a new temple yet to be built, but rather to sit in the temple of God. There was one already there. Not a word about the AOD.
Sir, the AOD simply didn't occur in that temple. I have several encyclopediae in fronta me, & not one mentions anyone entering that temple & setting up his statue, nor anyone entering it & proclaiming himself God from the time Jesus gave the temple destruction prophecy til it occurred.

Antiochus Epiphanes gave us a forerunner of the AOD when, in C. 164 BC he set up a statue of Zeus in the temple & sacrificed a pig on the altar. Nothing like that occurred again in the lifetime of that temple. Thus, it can only be a future event.

Do you not know that in order for Jesus to become our high priest, there had to be a change in the law? And if there was a change in the law and Jesus became our high priest forever, there can never be another temple of God without Jesus having to die again so that there can again be a change in the law.
Hebrews 9:15Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h 16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Horse Feathers ! Jesus' putting the New Covenant in effect had nothing to do with the temple. And what's to prevent another temple of God from being built?

Remember, the Jews fully intend to build a new temple before long. They're already breeding the animals to be used in its rites, such as red heifers. Now, while it won't be a TRUE temple of God, as Jesus won't be worshipped in it, the world will view it as such.

The Roman siege of J & the destruction of the temple was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" prophesied by Jesus against that generation of Jews.

But the AOD, marka the beast, & great trib are all still future, a fact easily deduced from any encyclopedia or history book. Preterism was an old idea popularized by a Spanish jeezit, Luis De Alcazar, who was trying to protect his pope from being labeled the antichrist. (Another false doctrine.)
 
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