Exactly.If people declare themselves anointed, that is not the same as the Lord anointing someone. We all have the Holy Spirit within us and the strength of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
If people declare themselves anointed, that is not the same as the Lord anointing someone. We all have the Holy Spirit within us and the strength of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Can you imagine what it would be like if the Lord was ministering somewhere. He took someone with Him when He ministered. He wanted to touch some people along a path and (within earshot) one of the believers said, "They all claim to be anointed!" "I'm not so sure!" "I get a funny feeling about that one!"
How about if the Lord wanted to touch a group of old ladies in one place and someone said afterward, "They had their money stolen from them!" (They gave willingly.)
So... the Lord and His minister were ministering and someone started to curse them (with just the usual flack the world does, but we know it as a curse), and someone announced they would receive a curse for speaking against what the Lord is working, OR... inversely a blessing for blessing the work of God. But they only heard THE CURSE.
How many precedents do we have in the Word from someone rising up against what God was dong and who He was doing it through. God didn't like it then and even though you have a different Blood Covenant, He still doesn't like it. God never changed just because we have a different covenant.
The Cathars used to believe that the Jehovah in the Bible was a different God than the New Testament God. He seems so different! He's the same. When warnings go forth about not speaking against the servants of God, they should be given heed to.
Those same servants do make mistakes sometimes, and of course God does not confirm that which is not of His Word with signs. He takes care of the justice system, not us.
Sometimes we are uneasy about certain doctrines (for good reason). So if we are given space in the spirit to share that, it's not about the person, it's about the doctrine. If the person needs dealing with, God raises up people to do that. It's not a "gauntlet" a minister has to run just to go minister somewhere. We're called to lay down our own criticisms.
So it boils down to is it the new man in love expressing a judgment you're receiving, and is it the old man rising up to discredit? And we are within earshot of the King.
Can you imagine what it would be like if the Lord was ministering somewhere. He took someone with Him when He ministered. He wanted to touch some people along a path and (within earshot) one of the believers said, "They all claim to be anointed!" "I'm not so sure!" "I get a funny feeling about that one!"
How about if the Lord wanted to touch a group of old ladies in one place and someone said afterward, "They had their money stolen from them!" (They gave willingly.)
So... the Lord and His minister were ministering and someone started to curse them (with just the usual flack the world does, but we know it as a curse), and someone announced they would receive a curse for speaking against what the Lord is working, OR... inversely a blessing for blessing the work of God. But they only heard THE CURSE.
How many precedents do we have in the Word from someone rising up against what God was dong and who He was doing it through. God didn't like it then and even though you have a different Blood Covenant, He still doesn't like it. God never changed just because we have a different covenant.
The Cathars used to believe that the Jehovah in the Bible was a different God than the New Testament God. He seems so different! He's the same. When warnings go forth about not speaking against the servants of God, they should be given heed to.
Those same servants do make mistakes sometimes, and of course God does not confirm that which is not of His Word with signs. He takes care of the justice system, not us.
Sometimes we are uneasy about certain doctrines (for good reason). So if we are given space in the spirit to share that, it's not about the person, it's about the doctrine. If the person needs dealing with, God raises up people to do that. It's not a "gauntlet" a minister has to run just to go minister somewhere. We're called to lay down our own criticisms.
So it boils down to is it the new man in love expressing a judgment you're receiving, and is it the old man rising up to discredit? And we are within earshot of the King.
Great points.
I have an excellent wof Pastor who lets everyone participate on an equal plane.
He treats a church service like it's a ministry training center.
IOW, he helps us grow in our calling, and gives us a safe place to practice each time we have a gathering.
The offerings are prayed over, and the LORD directs the use of the money, not one man.
I do understand what you mean by a one man show, and only the Pastor prospers.
I've been a member in churches where pew warmer is all most people are allowed to do.
A few get to minister in a limited capacity as the "one man" allows.
These Pastors don't seem to realize their job is to equip us for the work of ministry.
IOW, we're called by the LORD to be ministers too. Church should be like a ministry training center, a worship and prayer center, a seek-the-LORD-and-HIS-will center.
"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. " - Ephesians 4:11-13
I wish everyone had a wof Pastor like mine.
He's helped me grow in WOF. When I get stuck (things don't seem to work as per the scripture promises), he has a a gift from the LORD to see what I'm doing or believing wrong. I follow his anointed instructions, and I get unstuck.
Sad but true.Where is that church... its the one i've been looking for...
ugh... I have had some good pastors but they all run the church like it was their private school and we students have to learn whatever the teacher tells us is truth and if we disagree we keep it to ourselves... ugh ugh ugh
We have the right and are expected to test what is being said against the Bible. That is not judgement.
I understand with your Wof background you never speak a negative thing as you believe it brings it into existence for you, but not all or most Christians believe Wof doctrine.
I've experienced a lot of this too. The good and the bad. The only difference is most of my trouble was pre-wof, and most of my successes are because of wof. But I now understand better why you would say things about wof. I'm truly sorry for the trouble you've experienced.Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.
Like me, they had no former training to lead them. We were just a bunch of youthful Jesus people of the 70s. Then, from among us rose several "leaders." We knew very little, so what was it that these men taught? Where did these men gain their particular knowledge to share to seekers in those days? All of it came from owning the largest cassette tape libraries from which they memorized sermons from Copeland and other WOF camps, as well as other error ridden teachings that came out of Ft. Lauderdale's Sheep/Shepherding or Discipleship dynasty: Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, and another couple of them.
Not one of those self appointed leaders received any "revelation." Instead, they just spouted from their large library of WOF and Mumford cassette their nightly messages to young men and women whose time was spent struggling to maintain food on their tables.
Real work was hard to come by on the beach in those days, and still is. Most guys worked construction: hanging drywall, painting, masonry, etc. The pastor, himself, was once a janitor at the local naval base. So, from among us existed an extraordinary lack of general knowledge. Only a handful attended college, which is what I did, by hitchhiking my way to classes.
To hear someone tell us that gaining riches was as easy as giving to God through whoever it was stood before us, well, we had to go for it. Even if we didn't have anything more than a quarter in our pockets, we gave what we could in hopes of gaining a hundredfold increase. Soon, we were told, houses, cars, and those cattle on a thousand hills would begin to manifest in abundance.
One year passed, then another, then another, and still not one sign of that increase manifested to anyone of us. Oh, the pastors were doing well, it was easy to see. Being unable to give much, as I was a struggling college student, I was almost unnoticed, and never was I drawn by invitation into any of the cliques that always arose out of those fellowships. If I couldn't give, I couldn't give, but I did know how to play a standup bass, which I did, during worship.
More years passed, I'd completed my degree and was working on my Masters, when I joined a large group that met in an elementary school gymnasium. By then, I had a better job and was able to give more, which WAS noticed by my new young pastor. What a difference that made! I was greeted when I walked into the meeting like an old pal. No longer was I unfit to fit in. Yep, with a firm handshake and a hug I was welcomed with smiles, and was even asked to lead adult Sunday school.
See the difference? Notice how money makes that difference? Believe me, it does, and it will forever. This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.
Another thing I learned from your testimony is a Pastor has such a great influence over people.
Thank the LORD for good Pastors who truly help their people, not use them.
Thank the LORD for good home groups who follow the LORD and help people who can't find a good Pastor.
The problem is we each have a religious background which has shaped our INTERPRETATION of scripture.
So what do we do when we disagree on the INTERPRETATION?
.
I agree with each of the points you make.I don't feel there is much interpretation to be done. I think most come in with their favorite beliefs. I read the Word. All I base my Christian walk is the Holy Spirit and the Word.
If you read it w/o a slant and look for the meaning most of the time it is right there.
If you read openly not trying to prove any doctrine I don't find most of it hard or open to that much interpretation
I'd love to hear your testimonies.I have been blessed in so many ways by trusting the Lord when I gave or when I could not, He has given 100 return but I can not and will not use the lord like a bank acct or a lottery. I know that WoF is serious business and it gets the bad rap bc people say... give me $77 on 7/7/77 or something and make a mockery of the word. When I give I give in faith, the Lord gives me what I need. I have testimony after testimony how He made a way for us to have a house worth nearly a million $ for 160.000. I was trusting Him to make a way that we could get the house so when the plumbing froze and the house was covered in a blue fungus bc it was winter and it didn't dry properly, no one wanted the house. What no one knew was the house was all cedar and the fungus was killed with simple bleach.
We had no way of knowing that the disaster that blew out the plumbing and cracked all the old cast iron radiators was the Lord's way of getting us our dream house.
AS a new Christian when the Bakkers were saying give $1000 for a lifetime membership to thieir theme park and God will do such and such.. when I went to write that check.. it felt so disrespectful to give so that God would give me cash. I ask for the important things, peace in my home, health, and love. We have all that and much more.
If a person gives to get... the Lord isn't mocked, He reads hearts.... I try to be honest before the Lord and if I know my hearts not right, I give that to Him too.
God bless, andrea
Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.
Like me, they had no former training to lead them. We were just a bunch of youthful Jesus people of the 70s. Then, from among us rose several "leaders." We knew very little, so what was it that these men taught? Where did these men gain their particular knowledge to share to seekers in those days? All of it came from owning the largest cassette tape libraries from which they memorized sermons from Copeland and other WOF camps, as well as other error ridden teachings that came out of Ft. Lauderdale's Sheep/Shepherding or Discipleship dynasty: Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, and another couple of them.
Not one of those self appointed leaders received any "revelation." Instead, they just spouted from their large library of WOF and Mumford cassette their nightly messages to young men and women whose time was spent struggling to maintain food on their tables.
Real work was hard to come by on the beach in those days, and still is. Most guys worked construction: hanging drywall, painting, masonry, etc. The pastor, himself, was once a janitor at the local naval base. So, from among us existed an extraordinary lack of general knowledge. Only a handful attended college, which is what I did, by hitchhiking my way to classes.
To hear someone tell us that gaining riches was as easy as giving to God through whoever it was stood before us, well, we had to go for it. Even if we didn't have anything more than a quarter in our pockets, we gave what we could in hopes of gaining a hundredfold increase. Soon, we were told, houses, cars, and those cattle on a thousand hills would begin to manifest in abundance.
One year passed, then another, then another, and still not one sign of that increase manifested to anyone of us. Oh, the pastors were doing well, it was easy to see. Being unable to give much, as I was a struggling college student, I was almost unnoticed, and never was I drawn by invitation into any of the cliques that always arose out of those fellowships. If I couldn't give, I couldn't give, but I did know how to play a standup bass, which I did, during worship.
More years passed, I'd completed my degree and was working on my Masters, when I joined a large group that met in an elementary school gymnasium. By then, I had a better job and was able to give more, which WAS noticed by my new young pastor. What a difference that made! I was greeted when I walked into the meeting like an old pal. No longer was I unfit to fit in. Yep, with a firm handshake and a hug I was welcomed with smiles, and was even asked to lead adult Sunday school.
See the difference? Notice how money makes that difference? Believe me, it does, and it will forever. This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.
I think it's the LORD who teaches this:
" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15
Yes and have you heard that some are even using the internet to spread the gospel - how unscriptual is that????I'm absolutely certain no one in the body of Christ is destined for ministry in the way we have known it to be over the past numerous centuries. Fulltime occupations that require salaries be paid to pastors, associate pastors, childrens' teachers, music ministers, etc. don't line up with the Word of God. There is simply no place where such a secular-like position can be found in any of the New Testament.
Where would one find such as we have today within the pages of the Bible? Where are the huge churches, the fulltime paid ministries, the big choirs, the mosh pit-like worship services and conventions? Please, someone show me.
The truth is, we have lost our way. All the crusades in the world are organized around the personal agendas of men. They are not supported in Scripture. The disciples spoke in what we would today call town squares and in areas where the public gathered. Not one convention was held in the New Testament, nor were there preparations being made to build cathedrals, monasteries, church buildings or temples.
For the Most high does not dwell in temples made with hands, but in the hearts of believers. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? So then, why make all that fusss over building programs? Instead, peaceably come together in one another's homes, or start your own homebased gathering, and begin to recognize that we are God's hands, feet and voice, and that we too have something to give.
I'd love to hear your testimonies.
This is very interesting to me.
If you knew negative things about Jim Jones, you wouldn't have warned anyone to avoid him?
Love is crossing the road to help people, and love is also warning people of danger. In OT law if you knew of a danger and didn't warn someone, you were guilty of wrongdoing.
We have a Biblical responsibility to warn fellow Christians of wolves in sheep's clothing.
peace,
Simon
Actually JJ was rejected Christ, Christianity, and the Bible in favor of communistic socialism. Just saying because we should not perpetuate the lies that denigrate Christ.
According to Wikipedia, he started out as a Christian, and called his church the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.
Later, though, he rejected the bible: "By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as "fly away religion," rejected the Bible as being white men's justification to subordinate women and subjugate people of color and stated it spoke of a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[5] Jones authored a booklet titled "The Letter Killeth," stating what he felt were the contradictions, absurdities, and atrocities in the Bible."
After that, he claimed to be an atheist.
Jonestown was, supposedly, a communist settlement. More a political thing than religious, although it's still recognized as being a cult.
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