From WOF to simplicity

[Truthfrees]

You take this too personally. This is a discussion thread. Keyword discussion.

Discussion has its purpose. If it is offensive, you may want not want to read those threads that are in the DEBATE section.

Don't however criticize us for debate/discussion. That's not fair.

Actually, the heading on this forum says it's the debate forum to discuss our differences in theology.

Attacking each other, or attacking others, is NOT discussing theology.

It's turning what should be a theological discussion into a personal attack.

If we walk in love, refrain from saying anything AGAINST anyone, AND bring up scriptural topics, we can have a quality legitimate discussion.

What are the specific scriptural ideas we disagree on?

Let's discuss them.

Like "Should we curse each other?"

NO.

Did Benny Hinn curse others?

That's none of our business.

That has turned a theological discussion into something personal.

We can leave the person's name and details out of the discussion.

IF we discuss only the topic, and not a person or group, we will find it much easier to discuss topics and hopefully with love and prayer come to scriptural agreement.

Why do we disagree?

Because some or ALL of us are misunderstanding something the LORD said.

I want to grow in truth, but mentioning names and personal details turns it personal, and SOMEONE is going to get hurt.

 

[Truthfrees]

I love that you were able to see your own 'stuff' while addressing others about their stuff. That is a sign of real growth. I can see where the Lord uses these contentious people to teach us how to deal with challenging people in our own lives. Simply bc if we can't deal with them in a loving manner here, how on GOD's GREEN EARTH!! will we deal with the unbelievers in the real world.
And yes, if I go to an area of the boards that I can not be loving on, I have to stay away.
I'm a former mormon and as soon as I witness to them something within me rises up in outrage over the lie of mormonism and I find myself telling them the truth but without love. No one receives truth when its given without any kindness... so until I can do better, I stay away.
I have found it very surprising to me. I see a lot of good things I learned through those times and the mormons were very nice, I had no trauma bc of it... I just get angry so I know the problem is within me... need to get that root out... ugh.

God bless and thanks for the testimony, andrea

I absolutely agree with what you're saying.

"Speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—." - Ephesians 4:15

"Faith works through love." - Galatians 5:6

Whatever we're doing here, let's do it in love.

GOD IS LOVE.

 

[Truthfrees]

This is it last one you inspired a question.

This is a Charismatic fourm Truthfrees named those who are a part of a movement out side there denominations,or if you consider yourself Charismatic in general terms.

How do you feel when you hear a John MacArthur rant against all Charisma saying it is demonic?
No he does not pick on just one,he clumps us all together in one package.

He says the gifts were for yesterday,speaking in tongues is demonic Paul was trying to straighten out
The evil Church at Corinth.

How do you feel when someone you know follows him?
Do you fear if they find you out your relationship will be broken over tongues and gifts?

That is my parting thought,and the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Exactly.

Where does it stop?

We can bring up ANY name or group and start tearing them apart as Andrea411 says.

We all have stuff we're growing in.

We make mistakes.

We get it wrong.

So why tear each other up over it.

Let's SHARE the TRUTH and HELP each other grow.

Let's not mention names and personal details to shame, embarrass, disparage someone or some group.

We're all family here.

Let's show some patience, love, mercy towards each other, even people we don't like.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Actually, the heading on this forum says it's the debate forum to discuss our differences in theology.

Attacking each other, or attacking others, is NOT discussing theology.

It's turning what should be a theological discussion into a personal attack.

If we walk in love, refrain from saying anything AGAINST anyone, AND bring up scriptural topics, we can have a quality legitimate discussion.

What are the specific scriptural ideas we disagree on?

Let's discuss them.

Like "Should we curse each other?"

NO.

Did Benny Hinn curse others?

That's none of our business.

That has turned a theological discussion into something personal.

We can leave the person's name and details out of the discussion.

IF we discuss only the topic, and not a person or group, we will find it much easier to discuss topics and hopefully with love and prayer come to scriptural agreement.

Why do we disagree?

Because some or ALL of us are misunderstanding something the LORD said.

I want to grow in truth, but mentioning names and personal details turns it personal, and SOMEONE is going to get hurt.

I am attacking no one. What Benny Hinn did and much of what he does is public knowledge.

I'm not responding anymore because I feel that you are judging us. Thanks so much. You should really not be in this section if you only want your own opinion.

If Jesus had never discussed what was right vs. wrong, nor Paul, nor Abraham, nor Moses, nor Peter we would not have the Word.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Truthfrees]

We can't afford to NOT LIKE someone.

We can't have love and anger in our heart at the same time.

Love will heal and bless us and others.

Anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, criticism, etc will defile our heart and ruin even our good relationships.

"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. " - Philippians 4:8

 

[Truthfrees]

I am attacking no one. What Benny Hinn did and much of what he does is public knowledge.

I'm not responding anymore because I feel that you are judging us. Thanks so much. You should really not be in this section if you only want your own opinion.

If Jesus had never discussed what was right vs. wrong, nor Paul, nor Abraham, nor Moses, nor Peter we would not have the Word.

Have a great weekend.

The truth about what Benny Hinn does or doesn't do is not public knowledge.

Out of context secular soundbites and articles do NOT tell the truth.

We're all public to some degree.

This forum is public.

So does that give us the right to tear apart anyone who shows up here and makes a post?

I wasn't trying to judge you. I'll ask the LORD how to make sure I don't come across as judgmental.

I was trying to have a theological discussion about making personal statements about a person or group vs discussing theological points.

 

[Truthfrees]

Actually some of my posts were judgmental.

I'll get the LORD'S help on stopping that.

I'll go back and edit them to make them line up with what the LORD is telling me about loving each other.

 

[Truthfrees]

The LORD'S richest blessings on you all my Charismatic family.

I'm off to worship and bless the LORD.

You're in my prayers.

Catch you later.

 

[Simon Peter]

If you knew negative things about Jim Jones, you wouldn't have warned anyone to avoid him?

Love is crossing the road to help people, and love is also warning people of danger. In OT law if you knew of a danger and didn't warn someone, you were guilty of wrongdoing.

We have a Biblical responsibility to warn fellow Christians of wolves in sheep's clothing.



peace,
Simon

 

[hopeinGod]

Who is it that started thinking names could not be mentioned when writing of the disappointments and extremism we see within the Charismatic church? Paul himself wrote of two men named Hymaneas and Philetus who were speaking things contrary to sound doctrine. Actually, those two mean were teaching that the resurrection had passed already which tended to overthrow the faith of some.

Do you not think those who tend to overthrow the faith of some also exist within the body of Christ in these days? What about those people who hand out methods and formulas for the appropriation from God of anything from a wife, a new car, and a thousand-fold return on the dime they just gave?

I remember a fellow who attended a church where I was also going who gave regularly to the church, an exact ten percent, to be certain. His father owned the largest department store in a large town in New York and often sent him checks in the mail to make his life a bit easier -- all while those of us who had no such pot of gold waiting to be handed to us, worked our buns off to afford the least of the least.

This well-to-do fellow stood up one day during a time of testimony and told the entire church that it was through his giving to the church that the mortgage on his house was paid off in one check, and that God sent that money to him. All along, we all knew that his father came through, as he always did. While we had seed faith, he had his father's bank account, lucky fellow. And yet, he still believed it was his giving that brought him the payoff on his house. What ridiculous nonsense was that?

 

[Simon Peter]

Who is it that started thinking names could not be mentioned when writing of the disappointments and extremism we see within the Charismatic church?

That would be the false teachers themselves.

They were the ones getting criticised, and so they were the ones who started the whole 'touch not thou anointed'...

Meanwhile, they felt free to criticise others, or even curse others...hmmm

peace,
Simon

 

[Alive_Again]

Who is it that started thinking names could not be mentioned when writing of the disappointments and extremism we see within the Charismatic church?

Sometimes it is because what is held to be extreme is only that way in your eyes. We don't see the whole picture and if you're not getting it from God, then you're on thin ice.

Paul himself wrote of two men named Hymaneas and Philetus who were speaking things contrary to sound doctrine. Actually, those two mean were teaching that the resurrection had passed already which tended to overthrow the faith of some.

Paul got it by revelation to speak against them. He knew their preaching was off. I think if anyone said those things now we would hold the same opinion. But before any "utterances" go forth, you have to hear them. Paul spoke with authority. When we do it on our own, we're just sounding off presumptuously.

Do you not think those who tend to overthrow the faith of some do not exist within the body of Christ?

I think it has been demonstrated that Hinn's not overthrowing the faith of anyone. The bit with Peter was judged and we're not to touch that. If he's coming to your church or someone close to you wants to go to his meeting, it is possible to caution someone if you sense you're given room to do so. You can't assume he's out to fleece the Body because of that.

If someone has a doctrine that is questionable, it might be good to seek wise counsel about it, but to make a pronouncement should be done carefully and not capriciously.

What about those people who hand out methods and formulas for the appropriation from God of anything from a wife, a new car, and a thousand-fold return on the dime they just gave?

That's God's business too. Most of the time people are just ignorant and that extends pretty far in the area of finance. You cannot judge their heart condition (unless you're operating in discernment of spirits). You could say that you despise certain "promises" of fortune (I do too), but you can't condemn the preacher (even if it torques your flesh). You're going to have to get past that and let go on the bitter response to that because you pay a penalty within you for doing so. Don't you want to be happy and not carry that? Isn't the freedom option better?

This well-to-do fellow stood up one day during a time of testimony and told the entire church that it was through his giving to the church that the mortgage on his house was paid off in one check...

I hear it too when people say how tithing "works", even though God surely does often bless a tither. It's grace though that "works". He blesses obedience too and you can be ignorant in your doctrine and obedient in your walk, and you can be richly blessed financially.

In response to the "curse". You notice that he didn't curse anyone specifically (at least in the supplied ugly quotation).

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
1 Cor 16:22

So he was referring to the anointing and if he was moving in it, if someone comes against it, rest assured it brings a curse. That's a whole lot different from someone just popping off (i.e., Fools, I'll get you all!"). Doesn't sound like a warm fuzzy blessing does it?

There are occasions in the Word where an anathema is spoken against someone (describes a situation not a specific person). There's a precedent for it.

Benny Hinn: Yes, Lord, I'll do it. I place a curse on every man and every woman that will stretch his hand against this anointing. I curse that man who dares to speak a word against this ministry. But any man and any woman that raises his or her hand in blessing towards this ministry, I bless that man. I bless that home! I bless that family.
...
Benny Hinn: Under this anointing, the words I speak cannot fall to the ground. Under this anointing, everything I say, happens.

The end, there a faith utterance. Obviously people still make mistakes and those words do fall to the ground, but if he's prophesying and it really is by inspiration, then it resembles the blessings of Abraham, blessing those who bless you and cursing those who curse you. It's not specific and it's a case of "You want some!" (scripturally speaking), the you choose which category.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Paul himself wrote of two men named Hymaneas and Philetus who were speaking things contrary to sound doctrine. Actually, those two mean were teaching that the resurrection had passed already which tended to overthrow the faith of some.
​

Paul got it by revelation to speak against them. He knew their preaching was off. I think if anyone said those things now we would hold the same opinion. But before any "utterances" go forth, you have to hear them. Paul spoke with authority. When we do it on our own, we're just sounding off presumptuously.

Can you list the bible verses showing that Paul received a revelation to speak against those who spoke contrary to sound doctrine?

Paul said that if ANYONE preaches to you a gospel that IS NOT the gospel that I preach to you they are a false prophet. Period.

I also do not see why you say 'before any "utterances" go forth, you have to hear them'? That is not true. We make many decisions without hearing anything. What are you talking about here?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

In response to the "curse". You notice that he didn't curse anyone specifically (at least in the supplied ugly quotation).[/COLOR][/B]

So it makes more sense to curse thousands of Christians who see him as being borderline Christian? Random curses.

Thank God God doesn't do that.

 

[Alive_Again]

I snagged these quickly and got RSV, which I don't really use, but it makes the point...

This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." (1 Peter 1:15-20 RSV)

You can take the "deliver to Satan" thing with the same brevity. You can't just do these things on your own. When it comes to exercising authority in the Body, it's a different set of rules than just stepping out armed with your knowledge of the Word.

Remind them of this, and charge them before the Lord to avoid disputing about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. Avoid such godless chatter, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will eat its way like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth by holding that the resurrection is past already. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let every one who names the Name of the Lord depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2:11-19 RSV)

I think that careless judgments do more to eat away and cause more ungodliness than the "good" they are intended to bring.

I also do not see why you say 'before any "utterances" go forth, you have to hear them'? That is not true. We make many decisions without hearing anything. What are you talking about here?

Paul would take his example from Jesus who judged nothing... yet if I judge (that would be the one receiving judgment)... There are many precepts which could be laid out here relating to your flesh and its "rights" dying and the new man rising up in righteousness.

I do realize that "hearing" is not always prophesy and we have a certain "sight" and "hearing" that are not always words. They are a "sense", or a "vision" (different levels of that too), or part of an understanding. You are also led by the peace. It wouldn't be a huge faith walk if you heard a voice you spoke after all day. It's a learned thing and sometimes it's a puzzle, of which you're given a piece of here and there. When it all comes together, the "sight" or "vision" is more complete and a gift may come forth, and the presence of the anointing confirms to you what you're getting. Even then, you may not be called to tell someone else.

Can you list the bible verses showing that Paul received a revelation to speak against those who spoke contrary to sound doctrine?

It's all supposed to be in "newness of life", meaning we drop our own judgments and take up the ones we're given. The safety in that is that we don't see the whole picture. It's real easy to oppose yourself and what God is doing by uttering rash judgments. They can even be "correct" doctrinally sometimes, but it's out of divine order because it's self rising up.

Paul said that if ANYONE preaches to you a gospel that IS NOT the gospel that I preach to you they are a false prophet. Period.

I don't think anyone is doing that! People do differ doctrinally, but those epitaphs don't get passed out that easily.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I snagged these quickly and got RSV, which I don't really use, but it makes the point...

This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." (1 Peter 1:15-20 RSV)

You can take the "deliver to Satan" thing with the same brevity. You can't just do these things on your own. When it comes to exercising authority in the Body, it's a different set of rules than just stepping out armed with your knowledge of the Word.

Remind them of this, and charge them before the Lord to avoid disputing about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. Avoid such godless chatter, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will eat its way like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth by holding that the resurrection is past already. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let every one who names the Name of the Lord depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2:11-19 RSV)

I think that careless judgments do more to eat away and cause more ungodliness than the "good" they are intended to bring.

Paul would take his example from Jesus who judged nothing... yet if I judge (that would be the one receiving judgment)... There are many precepts which could be laid out here relating to your flesh and its "rights" dying and the new man rising up in righteousness.

I do realize that "hearing" is not always prophesy and we have a certain "sight" and "hearing" that are not always words. They are a "sense", or a "vision" (different levels of that too), or part of an understanding. You are also led by the peace. It wouldn't be a huge faith walk if you heard a voice you spoke after all day. It's a learned thing and sometimes it's a puzzle, of which you're given a piece of here and there. When it all comes together, the "sight" or "vision" is more complete and a gift may come forth, and the presence of the anointing confirms to you what you're getting. Even then, you may not be called to tell someone else.

It's all supposed to be in "newness of life", meaning we drop our own judgments and take up the ones we're given. The safety in that is that we don't see the whole picture. It's real easy to oppose yourself and what God is doing by uttering rash judgments. They can even be "correct" doctrinally sometimes, but it's out of divine order because it's self rising up.
I don't think anyone is doing that! People do differ doctrinally, but those epitaphs don't get passed out that easily.

Who? What? Where?

 

[hopeinGod]

Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.

Like me, they had no former training to lead them. We were just a bunch of youthful Jesus people of the 70s. Then, from among us rose several "leaders." We knew very little, so what was it that these men taught? Where did these men gain their particular knowledge to share to seekers in those days? All of it came from owning the largest cassette tape libraries from which they memorized sermons from Copeland and other WOF camps, as well as other error ridden teachings that came out of Ft. Lauderdale's Sheep/Shepherding or Discipleship dynasty: Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, and another couple of them.

Not one of those self appointed leaders received any "revelation." Instead, they just spouted from their large library of WOF and Mumford cassettes their nightly messages to young men and women whose time was spent struggling to maintain food on their tables.

Real work was hard to come by on the beach in those days, and still is. Most guys worked construction: hanging drywall, painting, masonry, etc. The pastor, himself, was once a janitor at the local naval base. So, from among us existed an extraordinary lack of general knowledge. Only a handful attended college, which is what I did, by hitchhiking my way to classes.

To hear someone tell us that gaining riches was as easy as giving to God through whoever it was stood before us, well, we had to go for it. Even if we didn't have anything more than a quarter in our pockets, we gave what we could in hopes of gaining a hundredfold increase. Soon, we were told, houses, cars, and those cattle on a thousand hills would begin to manifest in abundance.

One year passed, then another, then another, and still not one sign of that increase manifested to anyone of us. Oh, the pastors were doing well, it was easy to see. Being unable to give much, as I was a struggling college student, I was almost unnoticed, and never was I drawn by invitation into any of the cliques that always arose out of those fellowships. If I couldn't give, I couldn't give, but I did know how to play a standup bass, which I did, during worship.

More years passed, I'd completed my degree and was working on my Masters, when I joined a large group that met in an elementary school gymnasium. By then, I had a better job and was able to give more, which WAS noticed by my new young pastor. What a difference that made! I was greeted when I walked into the meeting like an old pal. No longer was I unfit to fit in. Yep, with a firm handshake and a hug I was welcomed with smiles, and was even asked to lead adult Sunday school.

See the difference? Notice how money makes that difference? Believe me, it does, and it will forever. This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.

 

[Truthfrees]

That would be the false teachers themselves.

They were the ones getting criticised, and so they were the ones who started the whole 'touch not thou anointed'...

Meanwhile, they felt free to criticise others, or even curse others...hmmm

peace,
Simon

I think it's the LORD who teaches this:

" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15

"I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you." - Genesis 12:3


1. If you read these 2 chapters, (1 Chronicles 16, Psalm 105), you'll see the LORD calls HIS people anointed ones, as well as here: Leviticus 7:36, 2 Corinthians 1:21


2. The LORD calls us kings and priests:

"You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." - 1 Peter 2:9, Exodus 19:6

"He has made us kings and priests to His God and Father." - Revelations 5:10, Revelations 1:6

3. The LORD says HIS kings and priest are anointed ones: Exodus 40:15, Leviticus 16:32, 1 Samuel 2:10, 1 Samuel 16:13

4. The LORD even calls bad priests and kings HIS anointed ones: Leviticus 4:3, 1 Samuel 24:10

5. So which ever way you look at it, we're told not to touch HIS anointed ones, HIS priests, HIS prophets, HIS people.

" ‘I will not stretch out my hand against my lord, for he is the Lord’s anointed.’ " - 1 Samuel 24:10

"Who can stretch out his hand against the Lord’s anointed, and be guiltless?" - 1 Samuel 26:9

"The Lord forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the Lord’s anointed." - 1 Samuel 26:11

"I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord’s anointed." - 1 Samuel 26:23

"How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?" - 2 Samuel 1:14

"Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’ " - 2 Samuel 1:16

"Shall not Shimei be put to death for this, because he cursed the Lord’s anointed?" 2 Samuel 19:21

"Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven With the saving strength of His right hand." - Psalm 20:6

"The Lord is their strength, And He is the saving refuge of His anointed." - Psalm 28:8

" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15

"I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you." - Genesis 12:3

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I think it's the LORD who teaches this:

" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15

"I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you." - Genesis 12:3


1. If you read these 2 chapters, (1 Chronicles 16, Psalm 105), you'll see the LORD calls HIS people anointed ones, as well as here: Leviticus 7:36, 2 Corinthians 1:21


2. The LORD calls us kings and priests:

"You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." - 1 Peter 2:9, Exodus 19:6

"He has made us kings and priests to His God and Father." - Revelations 5:10, Revelations 1:6

3. The LORD says HIS kings and priest are anointed ones: Exodus 40:15, Leviticus 16:32, 1 Samuel 2:10, 1 Samuel 16:13

4. The LORD even calls bad priests and kings HIS anointed ones: Leviticus 4:3, 1 Samuel 24:10

5. So which ever way you look at it, we're told not to touch HIS anointed ones, HIS priests, HIS prophets, HIS people.

" ‘I will not stretch out my hand against my lord, for he is the Lord’s anointed.’ " - 1 Samuel 24:10

"Who can stretch out his hand against the Lord’s anointed, and be guiltless?" - 1 Samuel 26:9

"The Lord forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the Lord’s anointed." - 1 Samuel 26:11

"I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord’s anointed." - 1 Samuel 26:23

"How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?" - 2 Samuel 1:14

"Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’ " - 2 Samuel 1:16

"Shall not Shimei be put to death for this, because he cursed the Lord’s anointed?" 2 Samuel 19:21

"Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven With the saving strength of His right hand." - Psalm 20:6

"The Lord is their strength, And He is the saving refuge of His anointed." - Psalm 28:8

" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15

"I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you." - Genesis 12:3

If people declare themselves anointed, that is not the same as the Lord anointing someone. We all have the Holy Spirit within us and the strength of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[Truthfrees]

Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.

This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.

Great points.

I have an excellent wof Pastor who lets everyone participate on an equal plane.

He treats a church service like it's a ministry training center.

IOW, he helps us grow in our calling, and gives us a safe place to practice each time we have a gathering.

The offerings are prayed over, and the LORD directs the use of the money, not one man.

I do understand what you mean by a one man show, and only the Pastor prospers.

I've been a member in churches where pew warmer is all most people are allowed to do.

A few get to minister in a limited capacity as the "one man" allows.

These Pastors don't seem to realize their job is to equip us for the work of ministry.

IOW, we're called by the LORD to be ministers too. Church should be like a ministry training center, a worship and prayer center, a seek-the-LORD-and-HIS-will center.

"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. " - Ephesians 4:11-13

I wish everyone had a wof Pastor like mine.

He's helped me grow in WOF. When I get stuck (things don't seem to work as per the scripture promises), he has a a gift from the LORD to see what I'm doing or believing wrong. I follow his anointed instructions, and I get unstuck.