From WOF to simplicity

[hopeinGod]

I was without an anchor as a Christian during the 70's when the Jesus Movement came rushing into my life in the form, initially, of loving, God-fearing young people who loved to gather, sing simple three chord Scripture songs, and worship. It really wasn't about doctrine in those days; but then, as always, in came a prevailing doctrine: the prosperity gospel.

The message was all about entitlement and how to cause God to move in accordance to one's will and perceived need. Scriptures that were to bring about these miracles were hung on refrigerator doors and mirrors, reminding us to speak into existence what we wanted; after all, our Father owned the cattle on a thousand hills and He was well able and willing to give us above all we could ask or think.

If one didn't see a manifestation of their request, it was ALWAYS told to him/her that the cause was a lack of faith, seldomly because they had asked outside of God's will or to consume that thing upon their lust, but because they had too little faith to move the mountain.

Because I have been dealing with health issues from the time I was born, having barely survived as an incubator baby, health issues were always at the top of my prayer list. All the many messages that I read and heard by everyone from visiting and local ministers to Bosworth's and Osborne's books, I tried applying, but to no avail. For me, it took the finding of a good paying job with excellent health benefits to gain the needed healthcare.

So, I see where economics is by far the biggest hindrance to a person's needs being met. But then, that is the big hook, isn't it? The more you give monetarily, the more money you'll get in return, right? The way, I recall being taught, to gain economic stability one should give money, rather than seek an education, earn a degree, and build with common sense. The answer to everything was to pray and thank, quote Scripture, give, and to attend as often as the doors were open.

The smartest ones in the ministry took the WOF messages and used them to manipulate the thoughts of believers to give to them, and when the small group they were a part of was not offering enough to them, they moved onward and upward, to greater heights, larger crowds and larger donations. That method of gaining wealth has worked for several old friends, a couple of whom are now millionaires.

For me, I find the home church movement to be the start of an answer to the nonsense around what we once fellowshipped. It is there you will find small groups, no overhead, and a chance to learn what it is to seek the Lord in order to bring something to add to a gathering, rather than to merely warm a seat. It makes much more sense. All the other stuff can be done away with; since, as I see it now, none of it is described in Scripture as the format of the early church.

 

[now faith]

I'm sorry you have been exposed to the bad side of religion.

They are still out there making promises of prayers and healing being done if you give a certain amount.

But you should know better!
You have to have discernment and know your bible.

Many have been killed by religion,children raped and a house of horrors
In many religions.
Just because your faith in a group has been marred is no excuse not to
Believe Gods Word.
Home Churches are great but don't think God will not provide.
All the promises of God are yes and Amen,find your deliverance in the Word and make a stand.

 

[hopeinGod]

I know you mean well in your belief that all the promises are yea and amen, NF, but you may not work where I do, where men from the battlefields come home with all sorts of injuries because they were willing to be placed in harm's way in the Middle East. They come home without a leg, no arm, or with half their brain shot out. These men will not see what you label as a promise of deliverance, for they will remain as they are for the remainder of their lives. Legs don't grow out of stumps and new brains do not manifest, and not one person who believes it possible has ever shown up to prove it to be so. So, I think I, because of my work, that I see those verses in a much more balanced way. Your zeal is great to have, but your experience around the suffering may not be as intense or widespread as mine.

 

[now faith]

I know you mean well in your belief that all the promises are yea and amen, NF, but you may not work where I do, where men from the battlefields come home with all sorts of injuries because they were willing to be placed in harm's way in the Middle East. They come home without a leg, no arm, or with half their brain shot out. These men will not see what you label as a promise of deliverance, for they will remain as they are for the remainder of their lives. Legs don't grow out of stumps and new brains do not manifest, and not one person who believes it possible has ever shown up to prove it to be so. So, I think I, because of my work, that I see those verses in a much more balanced way. Your zeal is great to have, but your experience around the suffering may not be as intense or widespread as mine.

I understand your passion,I minister to a young man who fell victim to a roadside bomb,and a older man injured in Vietnam.
We are making progress bless God.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I am glad that I am not WOF. I can barely deal with my own carnal self now.

I can see one getting angry with God if they don't get what they need. I think it attracts the wrong people that are out to 'get' rather than 'give'.

It puts a lot of focus on ones self. I need to get away from self.

 

[now faith]

I am glad that I am not WOF. I can barely deal with my own carnal self now.

I can see one getting angry with God if they don't get what they need. I think it attracts the wrong people that are out to 'get' rather than 'give'.

It puts a lot of focus on ones self. I need to get away from self.

Yes having faith in God is so self absorbed.

God will heal severe head trauma and restore limbs.
Just because you are to unwilling to believe it does not change God.

I know a child who had little or no chance from severe head trauma,they said if she lived she would be a vegetable,well they were wrong.
She is living a normal life and gets better each year.
She is not 100 percent yet it's been 7 years she still walks with a limp but I expect her to be made whole.

My daughter was born without a hand,I want nothing less than her hand to grow.
It takes great faith and it will come to pass.

So you think faith is self centered?
Tell that to the people I minister to,tell them there's no hope and tell the ones who have been
Healed its not real so they can have a relapse.

God nor I care less about either one of the posters opinions here if you both would step up
And give God praise and proclaim his power those you are around would benefit.
But poor you that faith stuff don't work.

 

[now faith]

I know you mean well in your belief that all the promises are yea and amen, NF, but you may not work where I do, where men from the battlefields come home with all sorts of injuries because they were willing to be placed in harm's way in the Middle East. They come home without a leg, no arm, or with half their brain shot out. These men will not see what you label as a promise of deliverance, for they will remain as they are for the remainder of their lives. Legs don't grow out of stumps and new brains do not manifest, and not one person who believes it possible has ever shown up to prove it to be so. So, I think I, because of my work, that I see those verses in a much more balanced way. Your zeal is great to have, but your experience around the suffering may not be as intense or widespread as mine.

Read my last reply.
I know you are so much more able to deny God's power than I am.
So worthy to set limites on God.

You know the doubt in America is the hold up.

Miracles happen far more to other nations the Word is given to people untainted with doubt.

Get some fire under your butt and start asking for wisdom,and faith and proclaim God power.

I'm out no need whine anymore.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Yes having faith in God is so self absorbed.

God will heal severe head trauma and restore limbs.
Just because you are to unwilling to believe it does not change God.

I know a child who had little or no chance from severe head trauma,they said if she lived she would be a vegetable,well they were wrong.
She is living a normal life and gets better each year.
She is not 100 percent yet it's been 7 years she still walks with a limp but I expect her to be made whole.

My daughter was born without a hand,I want nothing less than her hand to grow.
It takes great faith and it will come to pass.

So you think faith is self centered?
Tell that to the people I minister to,tell them there's no hope and tell the ones who have been
Healed its not real so they can have a relapse.

God nor I care less about either one of the posters opinions here if you both would step up
And give God praise and proclaim his power those you are around would benefit.
But poor you that faith stuff don't work.

I don't believe that it is the classic definition of 'faith' the way it is used in the WOF movement. It's a nice, feel good, addition to 'word of', I would call it name it and claim it. That was the words, until someone came up with this version.

This is how the story goes ..... If I believe in God and I believe that God spoke the world into existence. If I believe I am a little god than I too can speak words into existence. I have read key bible verses that seem to say that God wants me to have everything I desire and will give it to me, so I have faith in the fact that if I speak something that I can bring it into existence and God WANTS me to have it! I am only taking what God wants me to have, although there are people in other countries that have a 70% chance their children will not live to age 5, have polluted water and little to no healthcare, but God wants me to have everything I want, cuz I need it.

Your faith is in the power to speak what you want into existence. You have faith in yourself that you have faith when you speak. See.... you.... you... you...

You have faith in you.

 

[hopeinGod]

I don't believe that it is the classic definition of 'faith' the way it is used in the WOF movement. It's a nice, feel good, addition to 'word of', I would call it name it and claim it. That was the words, until someone came up with this version.

This is how the story goes ..... If I believe in God and I believe that God spoke the world into existence. If I believe I am a little god than I too can speak words into existence. I have read key bible verses that seem to say that God wants me to have everything I desire and will give it to me, so I have faith in the fact that if I speak something that I can bring it into existence and God WANTS me to have it! I am only taking what God wants me to have, although there are people in other countries that have a 70% chance their children will not live to age 5, have polluted water and little to no healthcare, but God wants me to have everything I want, cuz I need it.

Your faith is in the power to speak what you want into existence. You have faith in yourself that you have faith when you speak. See.... you.... you... you...

You have faith in you.

Absolutely true. The WOF baloney is all me, me, me, that everything I recieve in Christ is contingent upon my quantity of faith. And what is that amount, anyway? The faith of a grain of a mustard seed? Just how much is that? One or two millimeters in diameter. So then, the person who suffers daily, has only one working limb, hasn't got that much faith, huh?

It's always about the believer's lack, isn't it, with these wolves? "Who is he that sayeth it and it cometh to pass when the Lord commands it not," is found in Lamentations, and as I have seen, there are more times that God says NO than YES. Why? Because I actually work among the truly suffering, not just those with headaches and splinters in their fingers.

 

[Ajax 777]

Absolutely true. The WOF baloney is all me, me, me, that everything I recieve in Christ is contingent upon my quantity of faith. And what is that amount, anyway? The faith of a grain of a mustard seed? Just how much is that? One or two millimeters in diameter. So then, the person who suffers daily, has only one working limb, hasn't got that much faith, huh?

It's always about the believer's lack, isn't it, with these wolves? "Who is he that sayeth it and it cometh to pass when the Lord commands it not," is found in Lamentations, and as I have seen, there are more times that God says NO than YES. Why? Because I actually work among the truly suffering, not just those with headaches and splinters in their fingers.

Right. What gets me, hiG, is how these people shame those who already suffer for not joining in their harlotries. It's like bullies in school picking on the handicapped kid, knocking him out of his wheelchair and telling him God hates gimps like him.

These people honestly don't see their error for the damnable heresy it is. They are ensnared in the tentacles of the world, and they don't even see it. They think spirituality is to jump around and act like the prophets of Baal so their delusions will come to pass, and worse, is even what defines "faith" for them.

 

[hopeinGod]

Right. What gets me, hiG, is how these people shame those who already suffer for not joining in their harlotries. It's like bullies in school picking on the handicapped kid, knocking him out of his wheelchair and telling him God hates gimps like him.

These people honestly don't see their error for the damnable heresy it is. They are ensnared in the tentacles of the world, and they don't even see it. They think spirituality is to jump around and act like the prophets of Baal so their delusions will come to pass, and worse, is even what defines "faith" for them.

I know one fellow, A, that was a former housekeeper who saw the opportunity to make a killing in the WOF stock market. He preached the give and get garbage to those within twenty miles who'd listen to his repetitive "steer sermons" (a point here, and a point there, with a lot of bull in the middle), then he moved on to more churches and overseas, to Brazil, where he made his millions. Actually, the people of Brazil give so much money during their meetings that there is at least one WOF billionaire preacher in that country. Look it up. It will blow you away.

Lots of rolling and barking go on in the meetings, my ex-pastor preaches. He's a close friend of another one of those wolves, Rodney Howard Browne, the one man show at The River, not too far from my house in Tampa, where the truly vulnerable and understudied attend only to roll in the aisles.

You know these wolves eat well, drive the best cars, travel as they see fit, and laugh all the way to the bank -- if indeed they claim their collections at all (consider Phil Driscoll). It's filthy lucre, nothing less.

 

[Willie T]

Interesting. I've been to see RHB. And I've been to Lakeland in the day. And, as you know from living here, we have tons of people of all followings in and out of the convention centers all the time.

I've seen most of them. And ya know what? I still believe what I believe. Pretty much what I have always believed.

Where do people get the idea that their lives are ruined because so-and-so preaches whatever? Who does the believing? Them? Nope! YOU.

What more has to be said?

 

[Alive_Again]

The message was all about entitlement and how to cause God to move in accordance to one's will and perceived need.

If that is what you got out of "WOF" wherever you were, then I'd run too! But that's not WOF. It's never about entitlement. It's about choosing to receive some of what Jesus obtained for you. I'm not talking about "stuff". Most everyone I know who really wants to experience the presence of God wants the spiritual blessings. Guess where they're at? In Heavenly places.

But when you're aligning yourself with the plan of God (here's where Hagin's book on Plan's Purposes, & Pursuits" really explains things). One man's trash is another man's gold. The more you line up with God's will, the more fruit you have. Bingo!

In the physical world, you often see your own need (particularly if you're in lack). The lack seems to be kind of a bad witness. It doesn't really cause others to want to come and be a believer. It seems to say, "Going your way is no better than what I already have." I repeat, it's not about the material things, but material things are definitely needed to fulfill your calling. At times you do learn to "suffer" lack. It's not the will of God. We learn patience. But if it never arrives, it's time to go back and doublecheck why there is a delay in your provision or stewardship.

Scriptures that were to bring about these miracles were hung on refrigerator doors and mirrors, reminding us to speak into existence what we wanted; after all, our Father owned the cattle on a thousand hills and He was well able and willing to give us above all we could ask or think.

The Holy Spirit teaches us foundational precepts (of repentance from dead works and faith). He teaches us to renew your mind and getting the seed of the Word into you and before your eyes and on your lips is part of the beginning steps or precepts to entering into what Jesus actually died to give you (some that don't seem to be happening). Doing the above for the reasons of renewal are never going to go out of style or be retired from. It's the Word of God.

If one didn't see a manifestation of their request, it was ALWAYS told to him/her that the cause was a lack of faith, seldomly because they had asked outside of God's will or to consume that thing upon their lust, but because they had too little faith to move the mountain.

Maybe. That's just one of the possible scenarios. It's up to you to consider and hear what is within you to correct this. Some things don't happen overnight either.

... All the many messages that I read and heard by everyone from visiting and local ministers to Bosworth's and Osborne's books, I tried applying, but to no avail. For me, it took the finding of a good paying job with excellent health benefits to gain the needed healthcare.

Nothing wrong with that. But the foundation to really receiving (even in the health department) is repentance and faith. We've got to be hearing to have faith. That means what God has called you to do. It means keeping the heart. I like what God told Gary Carpenter. He didn't really have faith to receive the physical healing he needed. God showed him how to work on the part of him that didn't believe. It was an active, diligent focus that took a time.

...The more you give monetarily, the more money you'll get in return, right? The way, I recall being taught, to gain economic stability one should give money, rather than seek an education, earn a degree, and build with common sense.

Here is where knowledge was really lacking. People wanted to use their faith, but kind of moved away from the grace and obedience thing in favor of giving to get. It is wrong and most people in the charismatic move for lack of knowledge has done this. It's not just WOF. Opening up the giving channels is a valid precept (a great improvement over what many were walking in). But it moves from grace to focus on what you do in the flesh (with even a spiritual motive). This keeps the Lord from confirming what they're (we're) doing because it's not really the New Covenant way.

The answer to everything was to pray and thank, quote Scripture, give, and to attend as often as the doors were open.

These are always wonderful things. They're all scriptural precepts and without the thanksgiving, etc., you'll come up short in that department. Being part of what God is doing in your house is another.

The smartest ones in the ministry took the WOF messages and used them to manipulate the thoughts of believers to give to them...

It's important to let go the want to judge the motive of some ministers.

For me, I find the home church movement to be the start of an answer to the nonsense around what we once fellowshipped.

I think it is a missing component for many people. It makes it personal and it brings your testimony out and gives the Lord a chance to minister to people individually (if they open themselves to it).

If you're not connected to a larger fellowship, then you stand to miss out on other parts of the 5-fold ministry. If you're not receiving personal prophetic ministry, you'll come up short of the blessing God has for you. The same goes for apostolic ministry (which many churches have no connection with whatsoever).

Absolutely true. The WOF baloney is all me, me, me, that everything I recieve in Christ is contingent upon my quantity of faith. And what is that amount, anyway?

I think you've heard the wrong WOF messages. It's not about us at all. It's not just about faith. It's about walking in love, putting God first and staying renewed, hearing and doing. If we're not doing this, we're still in the wilderness in some areas (hence our not receiving). We have to make up our minds in the wilderness to actually be believers (having faith). I think we're all there in some areas.

The faith of a grain of a mustard seed? Just how much is that? One or two millimeters in diameter. So then, the person who suffers daily, has only one working limb, hasn't got that much faith, huh?

This describes the seed of Christ within us, not a level of valid faith to receive.

You've been presented (probably by the enemy in your own thoughts) a distorted gospel (no one I know of is preaching). It places the emphasis on you which is no good news at all! We all struggle with doing that because when we're not rising up in the Heavenly places, where in this lower realm where "we" live.

This is how the story goes ..... If I believe in God and I believe that God spoke the world into existence. If I believe I am a little god than I too can speak words into existence. I have read k ey bible verses that seem to say that God wants me to have everything I desire and will give it to me, so I have faith in the fact that if I speak something that I can bring it into existence and God WANTS me to have it! I am only taking what God wants me to have, although there are people in other countries that have a 70% chance their children will not live to age 5, have polluted water and little to no healthcare, but God wants me to have everything I want, cuz I need it.

What this might actually sound like is "I'm going to walk out God's plan in my life. I learned in faith school (by the Holy Spirit) that I must renew my mind and bridle my tongue with the Word. My focus is on bringing the kingdom wherever I am at and if I need something, I believe God will bring it. I am told to ask and if I made it through faith school far enough, I know that I will use my tongue to speak blessing into my situation.

I have to continually listen to people who have entered in, who preach the Word to do so, and find good examples of what God is doing and has done. (This is what we should be saying.) If I don't do this, I'll be liable to side with the larger company of unbelievers in the wilderness who will not enter in. They will grumble and murmur until their days run out wondering.

We must all strive to look at God's perspective on life,including all of the sick people we're around and begin to agree with the gospel (even if every last unbelieving believer dies right in front of us).

Your faith is in the power to speak what you want into existence. You have faith in yourself that you have faith when you speak. See.... you.... you... you...

If we're looking into the Heavenly places, then we're not in the picture, except to agree. We don't want to preach the bad news. Accusing others of looking to their own ability by manipulating God is very distasteful and does not really resemble WOF at all. But, it's the accusation going around.

 

[Truthfrees]

I have the opposite testimony.

I came from simplicity (don't know for sure what the Lord wants, so the Lord's will be done, and anything the devil pulls on me must be the Lord's will), to WOF (all the Lord's Promises are yes and amen in CHRIST JESUS - 2 Corinthians 1:20).

Hosea 4:6 says MY people perish for lack of knowledge.

One of the worst things I see in the non-wof crowd is they give credit for bad things to the Lord instead of rebuking the devil so that he will flee. - James 4:7

Jesus said the devil comes to kill, steal and destroy but HE came to give life abundant. - John 10:10

One question I have for the wof bashing crowd:

Don't you have something constructive to do for the Lord?

It seems you spend a lot of time bashing wof. Why don't you get out there and preach the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Or is there no good news in your belief system?

Blaming others for your failure won't hold water with the Lord.

You're accountable to the Lord for what you've done with what HE gave you.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I have the opposite testimony.

I came from simplicity (don't know for sure what the Lord wants, so the Lord's will be done, and anything the devil pulls on me must be the Lord's will), to WOF (all the Lord's Promises are yes and amen in CHRIST JESUS - 2 Corinthians 1:20).

Hosea 4:6 says MY people perish for lack of knowledge.

One of the worst things I see in the non-wof crowd is they give credit for bad things to the Lord instead of rebuking the devil so that he will flee. - James 4:7

Jesus said the devil comes to kill, steal and destroy but HE came to give life abundant. - John 10:10

One question I have for the wof bashing crowd:

Don't you have something constructive to do for the Lord?

It seems you spend a lot of time bashing wof. Why don't you get out there and preach the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Or is there no good news in your belief system?

Blaming others for your failure won't hold water with the Lord.

You're accountable to the Lord for what you've done with what HE gave you.

First of all, we are told over, and over, and over and over in the Word that it is God's will that is to be done, not ours.

How did Jesus tell us to pray? He told us the 'Our Father' prayer is HOW to pray. "thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". What part of us, using the sacred Word of God to do OUR will and NOT His will do you not understand?

That is my objection, so let's stay on point instead of running off on a 'your WOF bashing and find the gospel to preach' tangent.

Are we talking about what issues we disagree with and having a discussion here? If that is the case, please respect and discuss what the real issue is for me (as stated above) and not accuse me of 'bashing' another Christian faith for no reason.

I am open to a discussion if you are.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Interesting. I've been to see RHB. And I've been to Lakeland in the day. And, as you know from living here, we have tons of people of all followings in and out of the convention centers all the time.

I've seen most of them. And ya know what? I still believe what I believe. Pretty much what I have always believed.

Where do people get the idea that their lives are ruined because so-and-so preaches whatever? Who does the believing? Them? Nope! YOU.

What more has to be said?

Quick question. Do you think you are an exception or the rule in believing what you believe and not letting the preaching of very high profile men of God not affecting your beliefs?

I think you would be the exception. Most people that take the time to go to hear a preacher are usually susceptible to their teaching.

I don't like how RHB presents the Holy Spirit to Christ's people, nor do I agree with the transmissions of the Holy Ghost through a bartender in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ. It bothers me.

 

[Willie T]

Quick question. Do you think you are an exception or the rule in believing what you believe and not letting the preaching of very high profile men of God not affecting your beliefs?

I think you would be the exception. Most people that take the time to go to hear a preacher are usually susceptible to their teaching.

I don't like how RHB presents the Holy Spirit to Christ's people, nor do I agree with the transmissions of the Holy Ghost through a bartender in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ. It bothers me.

I think Jesus tells us there will always be throngs of people clamoring to chase after any new thing being preached by anyone. And I also think Jesus told us not to worry about that segment of society, but to continue to concentrate upon our OWN spiritual development.

I've said it before, and I'll keep on saying it...... It is acceptable, even wise at times, to chew any meat offered, just be aware enough of scripture to be able to spit out the bones as you run across them.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I think Jesus tells us there will always be throngs of people clamoring to chase after any new thing being preached by anyone. And I also think Jesus told us not to worry about that segment of society, but to continue to concentrate upon our OWN spiritual development.

I've said it before, and I'll keep on saying it...... It is acceptable, even wise at times, to chew any meat offered, just be aware enough of scripture to be able to spit out the bones as you run across them.

I don't feel that way.

In the Epistles (may have spelled that wrong), Paul consistently tells the new churches that the purpose of the church is to edify it's members who then walk forth in truth and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I believe that one of the main reason that churches exist is to edify the body of Christ. To support and commune with each other. I believe we are always called to bring back into truth our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I know this is not a popular view and most people are out for themselves, but Jesus said that He wants all to be saved. Too many are only out for themselves, rather a very self oriented view and I believe one of the main reasons why the church is not as strong as it could be. It's not just me, going to church for my edification and then bye til next week. It should be about others, their needs. How are they? Are they struggling? Can I help? Can I build up my brothers and sisters in Christ?

It seems your view is the view of most Christians however. I think this is why many Christians don't see much value in friendships with other Christians. Most don't know how to be Godly to each other and treat each other with no more love than non-believers. It's truly sad.

You seem to be very strong in your faith, so I'm sure you've been building your OWN faith for some time and the church has given you edification in some way.

 

[Willie T]

How have you reached out in love to RHB, and the many others we like to berate?

See how that Love thing works? We are to build up others, not just tear down and belittle messages and preachers we feel are wrong.

Remember when the disciples asked Jesus if He wanted them to call down fire on some false preachers? What did He say? He told them they did not know whose Spirit they had in them. Wow. Some heavy words.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

How have you reached out in love to RHB, and the many others we like to berate?

See how that Love thing works? We are to build up others, not just tear down and belittle messages and preachers we feel are wrong.

Remember when the disciples asked Jesus if He wanted them to call down fire on some false preachers? What did He say? He told them they did not know whose Spirit they had in them. Wow. Some heavy words.

That's not the point I was trying to make at all.

If one thinks that God's Holy Spirit is to be passed around like wine, that makes one drunk with holy laughter, roaring like a lion, flipping their head to and fro and other erratic gestures I guess that person may think it was a plight against a preacher.

I don't think that it's necessarily the Holy Spirit he is passing around. I'm not sure he is one of us. His anointing isn't the Holy Spirit I know. People are saved and get the Holy Spirit as a gift from God. It is a very orderly process.

What he is distributing is something many want to experience. Is it godly? I don't know, nor do I want to find out personally.

Spirits can be transferred via touch. Never seen the Holy Spirit when sent from Jesus passed around like a beer. I've never heard of anyone in the Word passing around the Holy Spirit like that.

Next time he comes you show him love and take your family to be anointed. May be a fun family outing and give the grandkids something to talk about at church or ROAR about, unless they raise their leg and pee on a pew first.