from new beginning thread in announcements- theological/scripture discussion posts

[invisible trousers]

I'm fine with that

 

[SunMessenger]

Wouldn't this conversation be better placed someplace else? It's a big foru.ms.

Look how quiet the thread got. When CaDan speaks people listen !

Only kidding I hope you realize that?

 

[CaDan]

Look how quiet the thread got. When CaDan speaks people listen !

Only kidding I hope you realize that?

 

[yodafett]

Dude, that reminds me of the Supreme Intelligence...

 

[Nadiine]

I understand your concern. We have all been looking at this as a change of CF. At least I was and that is what sent me to the war path. Instead this has a whole new meaning to me. This is not just one place or building anymore. This has turned into an entire neighborhood of Worship. As diverse as diverse can be I grant you that. When I walk down my street I am sometimes saddened , sometimes over joyed and sometimes just bored with all the things I see. This is a neighborhood street now. There are Jews, Muslims, Christians etc etc all gathered here in one very large city of FORU.MS. I walk by places of worship of many diverse faiths almost everyday. I do not have to enter each if I choose not too. That is what these forums are like now.

The beauty of it is that everyone must walk by the Christian Church too and decide if they want to enter or not. We Christians here have the least to complain about because we have the advantage. The entire block of forums is governed by Christian principals as it sits decorated under Christian Banners of Praise.

Do I think more is needed ? I sure do. I also have faith it will come in time. I also am very appreciative of what has started to come already.

God Bless Always...

Sun

Thanks Sun. I understand your position. =)
Of course I've always said Erwin could do what he wanted... it's his site for heaven's sake.
But I think any serious Christian should take note when atheists & so many nonchristians (of which I include some who claim to be Christian due to their doctrinal stances) take so much joy and pleasure from these changes while bible believing Christians get offended and leave in droves.

(that's a pretty good indication of who the choice benefits - at least if we have an ounce of common sense).

Anyways, someone did send me the link to some rules he did lay out that I never saw before. Unfortunately, as I read it, they change nothing about the current issue from 7-7-7.

Here's the link & quote (my emphasis in red):
http://foru.ms/t5972450&page=3
http://foru.ms/faq.php?faq=definition_christian

1. Christian

A Christian, simply put, is a disciple of Jesus Christ:
Acts 11:26 (NIV) "The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

To become a Christian, a person should refer to the following Scripture:
John 3:16 (NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (Jesus), that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Romans 10:9-13 (NIV) "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.""
Acts 2:38 (NIV) "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

2. Nicene Christian

Subforums can go further in depth and use additional Creeds and/or Scripture to separate Nicene Christians from Non-Nicene Christians, or may choose to set the optional sections as absolutes if they so choose, for example, to prohibit Nestorianism, Chiliasm, etc.

A Nicene Christian, is one who ascribes to the Nicene Creed (as follows with Scripture references):

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

Yet, there is some variance amongst Nicene Christians.
* Some, but not all add the filioque
* Some, but not all adhere to Baptism for the remission of sins.
* Some, but not all attribute Mary as the mother of God.
* Some, but not all, believe Christ will reign for a literal 1000 years ending before the final judgment.
* Some, but not all believe Jesus did but God did not die on the Cross
* Some, but not all will not ascribe to creeds, yet their beliefs are in many cases summarized by the Nicene Creed, but out of deference to Sola Scriptura, they will not agree to any creed created by man.

For purposes of Foru.ms, the above statements for purposes of being identified as a Nicene Christian are optional. Examples of Nicene churches are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Baptist, Reformed, Anglican etc.

3. Non-Nicene Christian

These are members who identify themselves as Christian, but for any number of reason cannot accept all or part of the Nicene Creed, outside of the previously mentioned options. Examples of Non-Nicene churches are Unitarian, Latter-Day Saints (Mormon), Jehovah's Witnesses etc.

So, you can deny the Bible is truth and still be a Christian as far as Erwin cares.
That's ok, God put His laws in all of us to know right from wrong - it's called rebellion whether they admit the Bible is right or not!
Romans 1:18-32.

This is just another sign of the times God promised would come. Tolerance for truth and righteousness is ending while tolerance for sin is increasing.

Thankfully, we know the end of the book!!

 

[CaDan]

So, you can deny the Bible is truth and still be a Christian as far as Erwin cares.
That's ok, God put His laws in all of us to know right from wrong - it's called rebellion whether they admit the Bible is right or not!
Romans 1:18-32.

This is just another sign of the times God promised would come. Tolerance for truth and righteousness is ending while tolerance for sin is increasing.

Thankfully, we know the end of the book!!

You realize you're not going to win this argument unless you have something other than invective, right? Although I am not even sure you are arguing here.

 

[Nadiine]

You realize you're not going to win this argument unless you have something other than invective, right? Although I am not even sure you are arguing here.

I don't have to "win" anything - it's not my site. If that's what ERwin wants, that's what he'll do. And he'll stand in front of God one day and answer for himself.
I'm responsible for myself and what I condone & promote openly.

Biblically, it tells us this is exactly how the world is going to go, so I'm not exactly shocked that we're seeing this - dismayed, yes, shocked? not really.

No I wasn't arguing anything by it, just relaying the info as someone sent me a link to it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Thanks Sun. I understand your position. =)
Of course I've always said Erwin could do what he wanted... it's his site for heaven's sake.
But I think any serious Christian should take note when atheists & so many nonchristians (of which I include some who claim to be Christian due to their doctrinal stances) take so much joy and pleasure from these changes while bible believing Christians get offended and leave in droves.

(that's a pretty good indication of who the choice benefits - at least if we have an ounce of common sense).

Anyways, someone did send me the link to some rules he did lay out that I never saw before. Unfortunately, as I read it, they change nothing about the current issue from 7-7-7.

Here's the link & quote (my emphasis in red):
http://foru.ms/t5972450&page=3
http://foru.ms/faq.php?faq=definition_christian



So, you can deny the Bible is truth and still be a Christian as far as Erwin cares.
That's ok, God put His laws in all of us to know right from wrong - it's called rebellion whether they admit the Bible is right or not!
Romans 1:18-32.

This is just another sign of the times God promised would come. Tolerance for truth and righteousness is ending while tolerance for sin is increasing.

Thankfully, we know the end of the book!!

Its not about winning or about who is "right" but rather about love because "love" doesn't discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is better to judge ourselves before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people (believers and unbelievers). "Each one should test his own actions. . . ."(Galatians 6:4a).

 

[SunMessenger]

Its not about winning or about who is "right" but rather about love because "love" doesn't discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is better to judge ourselves before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people (believers and unbelievers). "Each one should test his own actions. . . ."(Galatians 6:4a).

In the words of Chris bot Jim...

I like the way you talk.

Great Post. Right On Point !

 

[drstevej]

How to Become a Christian

The central theme of the Bible is God's love for you and for all people. This love was revealed when Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into the world as a human being, lived a sinless life, died on the cross, and rose from the dead. Because Christ died, your sins can be forgiven, and because He conquered death you can have eternal life. You can know for sure what will become of you after you die.

You have probably heard the story of God's love referred to as the "Gospel." The word Gospel simply means "Good News." The Gospel is the Good News that, because of what Christ has done, we can be forgiven and can live forever.

But this gift of forgiveness and eternal life cannot be yours unless you willingly accept it. God requires an individual response from you. The following verses from the Bible show God's part and yours in this process:

God's Love Is Revealed in the Bible

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." --John 3:16 (NIV)

God loves you. He wants to bless your life and make it full and complete. And He wants to give you a life which will last forever, even after you experience physical death.

We Are Sinful

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." --Romans 3:23 (NIV)

You may have heard someone say, "I'm only human -- nobody's perfect." This Bible verse says the same thing: We are all sinners. We all do things that we know are wrong. And that's why we feel estranged from God -- because God is holy and good, and we are not.

Sin Has a Penalty

"For the wages of sin is death." --Romans 6:23 (NIV)

Just as criminals must pay the penalty for their crimes, sinners must pay the penalty for their sins. If you continue to sin, you will pay the penalty of spiritual death: You will not only die physically; you will also be separated from our holy God for all eternity. The Bible teaches that those who choose to remain separated from God will spend eternity in a place called hell.

Christ Has Paid Our Penalty!

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." --Romans 5:8 (NIV)

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God, has paid the penalty for all your sins. You may think you have to lead a good life and do good deeds before God will love you. But the Bible says that Christ loved you enough to die for you, even when you were rebelling against Him.

Salvation Is a Free Gift

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

The word grace means "undeserved favor." It means God is offering you something you could never provide for yourself: forgiveness of sins and eternal life, God's gift to you is free. You do not have to work for a gift. All you have to do is joyfully receive it, Believe with all your heart that Jesus Christ died for you!

Christ Is at Your Heart's Door

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." --Revelation 3:20 (NIV)

Jesus Christ wants to have a personal relationship with you. Picture, if you will, Jesus Christ standing at the door of your heart (the door of your emotions, intellect and will). Invite Him in; He is waiting for you to receive Him into your heart and life.

You Must Receive Him

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." --John 1:12 (NIV)

When you receive Christ into your heart you become a child of God, and have the privilege of talking to Him in prayer at any time about anything. The Christian life is a personal relationship to God through Jesus Christ. And best of all, it is a relationship that will last for all eternity.

Receiving Him Now

If you want to receive Jesus now, and accept His gift of salvation, it's a matter of believing in Jesus Christ, repenting of your sins, and turning the rest of your life over to Him. This is not a ritual based on specific words, but rather, a prayerful guideline for your sincere step of faith.

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”

If you decided to become a Christian today, welcome to God's family. Now, as a way to grow closer to Him, the Bible tells us to follow up on our commitment.

Get baptized as a public statement of your new faith in Christ.
Tell someone else about your new faith in Christ.
Spend time with God each day. It does not have to be a long period of time. Just develop the daily habit of praying to Him and reading His Word. Ask God to increase your faith and your understanding of the Bible.
Seek fellowship with other Christians. Develop a group of Christian friends to answer your questions and support you.
Find a local church where you can worship God.

If you are making this commitment to Christ today, please let us know by clicking here.

 

[Nadiine]

Its not about winning or about who is "right" but rather about love because "love" doesn't discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is better to judge ourselves before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people (believers and unbelievers). "Each one should test his own actions. . . ."(Galatians 6:4a).

Is TRUE Love devoid of truth? Without Truth, what is God's love?
It may be about love - all humanity is built with that essential need and GOD IS LOVE.
All need God, or they'll hunt for different ways & means of attaining it (from someone) to fulfill that vacuum.

What good is it to preach Christ, YET PREACH THE WRONG ONE or the wrong way to Him? (ie. sin all you want folks, God is love").

And as I read your posts, you're not even grasping what the issues are imo. You're thinking I/we are over here trying to separate everyoen out, I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH WHICH GOD AND THE WAY TO GOD to be of any help to any unsaved here!

Not to mention, the universalists that are welcome to be Christian members PREACH THAT YOU DON'T EVEN NEED SALVATION, YOU ALREADY HAVE IT. Kinda defeats the whole salvational message, wouldn't you say?

Those are the points being made, not "get away from those impure lost people, you'll get cooties".

I'm getting a little weary of the allegations youre making becuz they aren't even accurate as to my positions (or others)

 

[JimfromOhio]

So, the "method" may be wrong but God is not limited to method because He is able to convict people to be saved regardless.

 

[Nadiine]

In the words of Chris bot Jim... Great Post. Right On Point !

Ya, he's ON POINT - but only in general.
SADLY, HE'S NOT UNDERSTOOD THE POSITIONS (DESPITE THE EXHAUSTIVE EXPLANATIONS AD NAUSEUM) AND IS USING THE STATEMENTS ON THE WRONG ISSUE.

They don't apply where he's using them becuz he's misunderstood the reason of the argument made

 

[JimfromOhio]

Is TRUE Love devoid of truth? Without Truth, what is God's love?
It may be about love - all humanity is built with that essential need and GOD IS LOVE.
All need God, or they'll hunt for different ways & means of attaining it (from someone) to fulfill that vacuum.

What good is it to preach Christ, YET PREACH THE WRONG ONE or the wrong way to Him? (ie. sin all you want folks, God is love").

And as I read your posts, you're not even grasping what the issues are imo. You're thinking I/we are over here trying to separate everyoen out, I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH WHICH GOD AND THE WAY TO GOD to be of any help to any unsaved here!

Not to mention, the universalists that are welcome to be Christian members PREACH THAT YOU DON'T EVEN NEED SALVATION, YOU ALREADY HAVE IT. Kinda defeats the whole salvational message, wouldn't you say?

Those are the points being made, not "get away from those impure lost people, you'll get cooties".

I'm getting a little weary of the allegations youre making becuz they aren't even accurate as to my positions (or others)

Not actually "allegations" but rather illustrating what the Bible is saying. I am trying to express the "two sides" of the coins. Spiritual growth requires Christians learn from our mistakes. While examining our mistakes, we must be careful to avoid two opposite errors: the first is being too easy on ourselves and the second is being too hard.

Truth what we hold in reality and what holds us in our day-to-day living. How do we convince a world that God is alive? By His aliveness in our lives, by His work in producing reality in our experience and testimony. As long as we remain in this twisted world, the we will continue have problems and in reality as history shows, we cannot escape them. God would rather see us accept the problems as opportunities to exercise our spiritual virtues.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Ya, he's ON POINT - but only in general.
SADLY, HE'S NOT UNDERSTOOD THE POSITIONS (DESPITE THE EXHAUSTIVE EXPLANATIONS AD NAUSEUM) AND IS USING THE STATEMENTS ON THE WRONG ISSUE.

They don't apply where he's using them becuz he's misunderstood the reason of the argument made

Not misunderstood but rather seeing this differently. I experienced similar situations in the past. Many of us have different experiences through the Holy Spirit about important moments of our lives and that therefore, everyone is different.

 

[SunMessenger]

Ya, he's ON POINT - but only in general.
SADLY, HE'S NOT UNDERSTOOD THE POSITIONS (DESPITE THE EXHAUSTIVE EXPLANATIONS AD NAUSEUM) AND IS USING THE STATEMENTS ON THE WRONG ISSUE.

They don't apply where he's using them becuz he's misunderstood the reason of the argument made

You are such a wonderful follower of Christ. I love you for that. Is it necessary for us to convince anyone ? Is it our mission to do that as Christians ? We can not enter others minds a push some switches and make it happen. We can love each other and in doing so bring the word home.

Sometimes words take a long time to sink in so to speak. At least with me they do.I find my best thinking is done during the quiet moments when we consider all the wonderful facts presented to us. An instant win in anything , even argument, never lasts. We need to keep driving the word home but we do need to be careful not to run them over with it while doing that also. You''re the best. God Bless ...

Sun

 

[CaDan]

Is TRUE Love devoid of truth? Without Truth, what is God's love?
It may be about love - all humanity is built with that essential need and GOD IS LOVE.
All need God, or they'll hunt for different ways & means of attaining it (from someone) to fulfill that vacuum.

What good is it to preach Christ, YET PREACH THE WRONG ONE or the wrong way to Him? (ie. sin all you want folks, God is love").

And as I read your posts, you're not even grasping what the issues are imo. You're thinking I/we are over here trying to separate everyoen out, I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH WHICH GOD AND THE WAY TO GOD to be of any help to any unsaved here!

Not to mention, the universalists that are welcome to be Christian members PREACH THAT YOU DON'T EVEN NEED SALVATION, YOU ALREADY HAVE IT. Kinda defeats the whole salvational message, wouldn't you say?

Those are the points being made, not "get away from those impure lost people, you'll get cooties".

I'm getting a little weary of the allegations youre making becuz they aren't even accurate as to my positions (or others)

Frankly, the position I have seen you argue (if argument it is) is that this forum must allow only the promotion of Nadiine (tm) theology or else YOU ALL GO TO HELL!!!!!111!!!!

 

[Nadiine]

Not actually "allegations" but rather illustrating what the Bible is saying. I am trying to express the "two sides" of the coins. Spiritual growth requires Christians learn from our mistakes. While examining our mistakes, we must be careful to avoid two opposite errors: the first is being too easy on ourselves and the second is being too hard.

Ok, and I can give you dozens of "illustrations" about protecting the sheep and the plethora of warnings the same Bible gives of the damages that false teachers/prophets bring to souls too.

BOTH are true - we don't REMOVE one principle to embrace another. Compromise to 'win souls' is not God's way and never has been.

I never said or even implied that 'everyone' shouldn't be able to join this site. I welcome everyone! The issue here is WHO IS POSTING AS A CHRISTIAN AS PER THE SITE'S DEFINITION OF ONE.
If you leave it wide open (as Erwin has), wait for the eventual infestation of false teachers coming with another gospel.
His change is only 6 days old, give it some time.

Truth what we hold in reality and what holds us in our day-to-day living.

Yes, well people here online can't "see" me day to day except to see my posts... (unless if they do see me, I don't have a "Nadiine from Foru.ms" tshirt to announce myself)

How do we convince a world that God is alive? By His aliveness in our lives, by His work in producing reality in our experience and testimony.

Again, your generalities don't fit my position - you can preach True things all day long, but they don't apply to what my argument is as if I'm NOT doing what I need to be doing to witness God or something.??

As long as we remain in this twisted world, the we will continue have problems and in reality as history shows, we cannot escape them. God would rather see us accept the problems as opportunities to exercise our spiritual virtues.

Would God like compromising one principle to fulfill another?
I had been asking for Erwin to post a definition for this site, and as of just an hour ago, I found he has now.
I merely posted them here for everyone to see.
Unfortunately, it doesn't solve any of my concerns (if anything, it raises MORE).

I am exercising my spiritual virtues - in asking that he not COMPROMISE one of God's key principles in order to "reach people" - in doing so, he may well have done more harm than good in bringing them to a place with more danger than there was prior to 7-7-7.
(WHICH ISN'T TO SAY NO GOOD CAN COME).

We had seen Erwin make a few changes for the better TOPICALLY, so I continued pushing for the important change. I don't regret that either.
God holds me responsible for what I say openly. Now that Erwin's done changing anything, I find no more need to ask for change - Lord knows it's already posted 400 times if he needs to hear me.

I at least think that's better than if I just bailed CF in anger and didn't bother speaking out for change.

 

[cygnusx1]

Frankly, the position I have seen you argue (if argument it is) is that this forum must allow only the promotion of Nadiine (tm) theology or else YOU ALL GO TO HELL!!!!!111!!!!

well if it's repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and salvation ......... then yes!

 

[Nadiine]

Frankly, the position I have seen you argue (if argument it is) is that this forum must allow only the promotion of Nadiine (tm) theology or else YOU ALL GO TO HELL!!!!!111!!!!

No doubt that's all you WOULD see CaDan, and your intolerance is so noted (yet again).

Jhn 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.