• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    53.3%
  3. I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    This is a good point.... yes we need to be cautious......
    but the fact that this is such a massive opportunity to reach people means that our caution ..... if too extreme......could shut this potentially very fruitful door.

    Please notice the number of views that the video linked in post # 117 got. 37,471,119..... the Colton Burpo case is inspiring people to think about heaven and take the Bible more seriously.
     
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Exactly!

    It is almost like........... don't you say nothing bad about my Mom!!!!
     
  3. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

    +751
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    UmHmm, exactly. This brings back memories of when my kids was lilttle and in school. They were raised around guns, so we talked a lot about use of force and when is it ok to throw the first punch. ANd the only answer was, if someone talked bad about their mom, and she wasn't there to handle the situation herself... The only time you can ever punch a kid first. Well, I got the call one day. Supposedly, my kids had both jumped a boy for no reason and both beat him up! Eek...would I come down right now to the princi[ples office?

    SO on the drive over there, I'm thinking about it...the kid's aren't like that, to beat a kid up and start trouble...and then I remembered telling them that they should stick up for their mom if some kid was talking smack about her on the playground, and somehow, I realized that that is probably exactly what happened. It's the only thing that would explain it. So I get to the school and as soon as I walk in, I get informed that both of my kids are suspended. Everybody is there, the kid, his parents, the principle...and all eyes turn to me as I walk in, and suddenly, I feel very much in the spotlight.

    The principle raises both of his hands to me as if to say, well, explain this why your kids both jumped on a boy...??

    So I did. I said, hey look, I've taught my kids that the only time it is ok to throw the first punch...is if some kids is talking disparagingly about their Mother, so I'm guessing that the kid said something bad about their mom...what about that boy? Is that what happened? And I looked at the boy they beat up....

    The boy suddenly begins studying the floor real intently...and gives the smallest shake of his head in the affirmative, and all eyes were on him and seen it! They all looked at me, then looked at the boy, then at each other, and it got real quiet in the room while everyone digested that..and it was over. Suspension reversed, immediately. Now the boy got suspended...because everybody knows...don't talk about my momma! They all found it perfectly acceptable for a reason to jump a boy, lol!

    I felt so relieved! I wasn't sure how they would take that but it was all I had, lol! I felt good and proud of my boys then...but it illustrates this point perfectly. No! There's no forgiveness for talking down my Wife/Momma...so we have the unforgivable sin...
     
  4. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

    +2,721
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Is this a lesson you still stand by? Start violence when certain words are uttered?
     
  5. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

    +751
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Uhh, yes. The only time for a first punch. Anything besides this would have to be defense.

    Doesn't that make sense to you? I mean, can I come face to face with you and talk bad about your wife? Would you let me get away with it? I know that it is politically correct to let people walk all over you nowadays, but I don't see how that changes anything. It was either a good idea in the beginning and it still is...or it never was.

    I was a little worried about it even back then. They was already spouting that non-violent rhetoric to the people. This all transpired in the early 90's. Violence is never really good for it to happen, but sometimes that's all people know and respect. Yeah, I have to stand by what I taught my kids, even now. I would not let you disrespect my Wife (if I had one, lol), and I wouldn't expect you to just stand there and do nothing if I were stupid enough to walk up in front of you and start talking down your wife, or daughter even.

    Yes sir.
     
  6. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

    +2,721
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Those filled with the spirit are slow to anger and quick to show mercy. This is the opposite of resorting to violence whenever a specific subject is mentioned, every time it is mentioned, all the time.

    I would like to think this would apply to me if you uttered words you felt were negative about me or my family (saying this to their face and hurting them is a different story). I teach my children to laugh at or ignore children who say anything negative about me or their mother. I tell them the only reason to get angry is if the things were true. When you have bullies, they usually pick things that bother you to say....If you limit the things that bother you, you limit the amount of ways someone can try to hurt you.

    If you let the words of others control your actions, then they control you. I like to keep my heart and mind guarded.

    So let's see, you and I are on opposite ends of this one. What if every parent told there kids a group of words or subjects that was ok to start fights over? Some which you don't agree with, just like I don't agree with you here, and others you do agree with........ The world and schools would be a big justified boxing rings.

    I see no fault in you teaching your children what you taught them and living by that yourself.

    I believe it a better way hold ones peace and to let the lord fight your battles.....and sometimes he can use your own fist to fight them as well.....But these cases would be More likely to avoid physical harm and not just to protect pride or manhood.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives

    Have you seen any of the videos that Rev Howard Storm did?

    When we see somebody on camera.... we get a good idea of whether or not
    they are acting....... and my impressions is that Rev Howard Storm is being
    extremely humble..... extremely honest....... and just wants to see others benefit
    from what he learned from his brush with death.


     
  8. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,399
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    My first experience with a near death experience [NDE] was in 1970 in a military advance course of soldiers who had all had one tour in Vietnam and most were preparing for a second tour. One of the soldiers told us of a NDE in Vietnam when he was seriously wounded. I was very skeptical and was for many years. Fast forward to 2010 I was in a VA hospital for a simple 45 min. laparoscopic hernia repair, it went south and turned into a 5 hour open surgery. I had acute kidney failure, a-fibrillation, ileus [bowel blockage] and sepsis [major infection of the abdominal cavity.] I no longer doubt NDEs but I am not making money from it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives

    Wow.... thank you Der Alter!

    I have never had one myself.... but I am convinced that in 90% or more of the cases that I have read... .the near death experiencer was reporting what they saw and experienced to the very best of their ability.

    Actually...... I have gotten the impression that 99% of the NDE cases that I have read, the person recounting their experience was being as truthful and honest as they possibly could be.

    I am impressed that a huge percentage of people who remember an out of the body experience during a brush with death take five or ten years to process the experience before they begin telling people about what they saw. If they were simply trying to make money........ they would begin much sooner to tell others.
     
  10. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

    +751
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    He looks kind of familiar. I might have seen him before. I just watched it and I agree with you. He acts like a man who's been there seen that and don't care what anyone says, lol. I believe him. That was good.

    He says, many people may have these experiences but just can't remember it...Hmmm, that sorta clicked when I heard it. I bet that is true. Afterall, scripture says that He knew us before we were in the womb, so our memory is obviously being restrained from us. Scripture says God likes doing that too! Restraining people's eyes and minds so they wont recognize Him and stuff, so why not?
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives

    This film does a good job of covering the scary near death experiences.

     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    I am reading the updated movie version of Heaven is for real right now and I was amazed that the angels who met with Colton..... .who sang to him to make him feel less fear.... refused to sing "We Will, We Will Rock You" when he asked for it.

    He was three years and ten months old at the time of his NDE......
    the same angels did sing him "Jesus Loves You because the Bible tells me so."
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,141
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Just a few days ago I read some comments from 'Heaven is For Real' (the updated movie edition), that seem to me to demonstrate amazing understanding for a four year old:


     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +4,882
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    John 3:13 says, “No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.” And John 1:18 says, “No one has seen God at any time.”

    "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (Matthew 24:24).
     
  15. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

    +2,721
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The version i read says that no MAN has ascended.....I think this is important. The people who claim to have gone have gone in spirit...not as a man.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +4,882
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The problem is that these extra books or stories that makes an account of Heaven are to be treated as if they are like Scripture. They are not Scripture! God has warnings against those who would add to His Word.

    "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" (Revelation 22:18).

    "Let the lying lips be put to silence." (Psalms 31:18).

    Taylor (of the Living Bible) lost his voice and still speaks in a hoarse whisper. A psychiatrist who examined him suggested that the voice failure was Taylor's psychological self-punishment for tampering with what he believed to be the Word of God.

    Also silenced was Philip Schaff, collaborator on the New Greek Committee and director of the American Standard Version, which formed the foundation of the New American Standard and The Living Bible. Paralleling Taylor's pathology, Schaff's son finds the same "frog" in Philip Schaff's throat.

    Westcott's biographer cites that in 1858 "he was quite inaudible" [Life of Westcott, Vol. I, p. 198] and by 1870 "His voice reached few and was understood by still fewer." [Ibid., p.272]

    J.B. Phillips tells in his own autobiography, "I was still doing a fair measure of speaking in schools and churches until the late summer of 1961. And then quite suddenly my speaking, writing and communication powers stopped. I was not in panic but I was certainly alarmed, and when a few weeks rest brought no improvement I cancelled all speaking engagements for the rest of the year [age 55.]" The Price of Success, the title of his autobiography, is apropos. [J.B Phillips, The Price of Success [London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1984,] see pp. 163-196]

    These men (mentioned above) tampered with God's Word and they all lost their voice!

    Coincidence?

    If you believe in such things.


    Source Used:
    King James Bible 1611 Proofs
    (Note: I only agree with the quoted portions of the article I quoted. I strongly disagree with this website's belief in Eternal Security).
     
  17. he-man

    he-man he-man

    +287
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    John 3:13 no man has ascended unto heaven except Jesus.
     
  18. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

    +971
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    UK-Independence-Party
    We need to try and work out what Jesus actually meant by these verses, because on face value, they are both clearly contradicted by the following verse plus others elsewhere.
    Exodus24v9Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
    Very specifically, they went up.
    Very specifically, they saw God!

    It is my belief when Jesus says "No man has ascended into Heaven" he is simply referring to climbing up on the strength of his own self righteousness, rather than God raising him up by grace.

    When Jesus says "No man has seen God" I suspect that he is referring to the Father. There are a number of appearances of God in the OT, which can only refer to Jesus prior to his incarnation.
    This is hardly relevant to this thread as it could equally apply to any leader of a church for the last 2000 years.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +4,882
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    John 1:18 is in reference to seeing the face of God the Father.
    No man can see the face of God the Father and live is what it is saying.

    John 3:13 is also true in the fact that no man has ascended to Heaven but the Son of Man (Jesus). This was true during the time Jesus said this and it is still true today.

    In the Pre-Trib Rapture is when the dead in Christ will rise to meet the Lord in the air. They will join Jesus and then be in Heaven with Him. But the Rapture has not happened yet.

    No. People who seen Heaven and talk about another Jesus that is not described in the Bible are talking about a false Christ that the Bible warns us against.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +4,882
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    It's also silly that Jesus is very attractive and looks white in these visions, as well. However, the Scriptures say that he was not overly attractive. The Scriptures also say Jesus was a Jew. Ancient Jews did not look like Gentiles. So just based off these facts alone, it is pretty obvious that these visits to Heaven are false.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
Loading...