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Freewill?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by hairettic, Dec 27, 2006.

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  1. Katmando

    Katmando Regular Member

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    Are you claiming Christ is not the only way?


    Katmando
     
  2. Soul Searcher

    Soul Searcher The kingdom is within

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    Yep.. I remember that thread, at least he stuck to his guns and didn't whimp out over the cute little babies.

    There are few of that kind, thankfully. Yet many who have no problems saying that all over the "age of accountability" [apparently somewhere between the ages of 6 and 16] deserve to be toasted.

    Someday maybe people will wake up and see that to God we are all children and even the wisest of the wise has much to learn.
     
  3. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Christ is the Law of the spirit, which is the tree of life, the one on which the fruit of the spirit grows!


    Christ is the law!
     
  4. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    Goodness! There seems to have been quite a reaction to just a simple statement. I'll try to catch up now. :)
    Isaiah 7: 13. And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
    14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
    15. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
    16. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.


    I think the age of accountability would be when one has matured enough intellectually to realize what is right and what is wrong in the moral sense.. And I don't think there is any set age for that. But there definitely is a time in each person's life who has lived and matured normally beyond infancy, when they become accountable to God for their actions. It may be earlier in the lives of some individuals than others. As I said before, humans grow and develope at different rates of speed.

    But thanks for the info, Benoni. Although I'm not quite sure just where I should file it. :)

    No, of course not.

    Now please explain
    how you arrived at the conclusion that I might be claiming that Christ was not the only way by what I said in this comment.
     
  5. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Evergreen,My son is 16 months old and knows right from wrong.are you suggesting that because He has not accepted Jesus Christ as His personal Lord and saviour (30 second sinners prayer) that He would be subject to eternal torment if He died tomorrow?
     
  6. Katmando

    Katmando Regular Member

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    Hi evergreen,

    Age of accountability claims that if one dies before a certain age one that could not make a mature choice to choose Christ that still can make it to heaven.

    If a five year old does not choose Christ and then dies. What happens?

    Thanks
     
  7. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    Marty, I can assure you that your son who is 16 months old does not know what is marally right and wrong. And I don't know anything about what you are calling the '(30 second sinners prayer).' Furthermore, I do not believe in eternal torment for anyone.

    Now please explain how you arrived at the conclusion from anything I have said, that I might be suggesting all of this stuff.
     
  8. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    The situation with my son is the same situation that occurred in the garden with Adam and Eve!

    My son knows when I say not do something it mean "Don't do it" then when thinks I am not looking He goes and does it anyway!

    I've said if He touches something He'll get a smack!

    now is that not the definition of sin?

    You are defending a doctrine (age of accountability) which was made up by othodoxy to cover their tracks, that's why I thought you believe in the ET doc,

    what was I supposed think?
     
  9. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    The same thing happens to 'a five year old who does not choose Christ and then dies', as happens to anyone else when they die. They are in the hands of a just, merciful and all wise God. I believe He will do with them as He sees fit. I do not claim to know the mind of the Lord, and neither have I been His counseler.

    Katmando, I can't make heads nor tails out of your first paragraph. Could you rephrase it for me? - Thanks - :)
     
  10. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Jer 19:5 They have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I never commanded nor spoke, nor did it come into My mind.


    There you go evergreen, God tells what his mind is regarding such matters.
     
  11. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    I am not defending any doctrine. I've never heard that 'age of accountability' was a doctrine until now. Common sense dictates to me that there is an age that each of us reach when we become accountable to God for our actions. Until that time, we are, or should be, accountable to our parents for our actions. The situation with your 16 month old is not the same situation as occurred in the garden of eden. Thats just plain silly.

    Your son sounds like the typical growing and learning, and exploring toddler. Take the advice of a mother and grandmother and keep things that you don't want him touching up out of his reach. Why cause him undue pain by smacking him if it can be avoided. Go easy on that little bit of clay that you are in charge of molding. The day will come when you will be able to put everything that you don't want him touching back into its proper place. That day will be when he is old enough to understand why you do not want him touching these things.
     
  12. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    What on earth are you talking about, Marty? :confused:
     
  13. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    I'm talking about you can know the mind of God, because speaks His mind all through the bible!

    not being able to know the mind of God is another man made doctrine!

    Having the mind of Christ is a different thing again.
     
  14. Harlin

    Harlin Member

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    Hello,

    Logically that makes no sense, if they had no knowledge of the law until they fell, then they couldn't have sinned, as the law is the knowledge of sin. That one command not to eat the fruit is not considered "the law" that identifies sin, that was one separate command which God specifically spoke to Adam and Eve as a test, a bit like God commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, that was not "the law" which identifies sin, that does not encompass the "law" it was also a test. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command, they also broke the 10 Commandments and hence sinned.

    Where does it say that they only received the "full knowledge of the law" after they fell?, All Adam and Eve received was a knowledge of "good and evil", sin and it's consequences, they had not known the concept of "evil" before committing sin, and yet they had known good. God's law is good, in fact the "perfect law of liberty". Even without sin, one can have a full knowledge of the law.

    I believe the "age of accountability" concept is laid out in scripture, although I am unaware of a specific age when one reaches the "age of accountability" and tend to agree with Evergreen that each person matures differently, God knows the hearts and minds of each.

    God calls babies innocents, (Jer 2:34, 19:4), we all know that even babies can be naughty or "play up" to a degree, however, God still calls them "innocents" when do they become sinners then if there is no "age of accountablity"?

    God Bless,

    Harlin
     
  15. wmc1982

    wmc1982 Aka "Will" :)

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    I think we have free will in daily decisions, but not on our salvation.
     
  16. Harlin

    Harlin Member

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    Hello,

    It is appears obvious that if God did not want those people burning babies to baal, that God Himself would not find burning babies in a lake of fire appropriate either. What a horror that would be, who would want to worship a God that sanctioned burning babies because they weren't old enough to have a relationship with Jesus????.

    Maybe there are some out there who do believe this, however, myself, there is not even a remote chance that the God I worship would ever perform such a sickening act.

    I praise God that my two littlies are safe in Jesus.

    God Bless,

    Harlin
     
  17. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    I'm glad you do not believe in the damnable doctrine known as eternal punnishment!
     
  18. wmc1982

    wmc1982 Aka "Will" :)

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    are you serious?
     
  19. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    It makes perfect sense!

    Adam and Eve had but one rule, do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    they then ate of it, and their eyes were opened!

    the fact that they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and their eyes were opened means they did not know the difference before, and thus could not possibly have know the Law!

    The only law they had that they could break was the one law that God gave them, don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil!
     
  20. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Yes!

    why do you ask?
     
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