Hello,
You can’t be serious here brother. God is LOVE and LOVE never fails and God so LOVED the whole world. That His character Harlin, not the one painted by the eternal tomentists and aniholationists, which do not but malign His character.
What part of LOVE NEVER FAILS do people not understand?
Deadly serious, I believe that the second death is an eternal death, eternal separation from God (Rev 20:6,13-15) Not eternal torture. (PS, I am a sister, not a brother lol)
According to the free will group it is God who causes the punishment. It’s called cause and effect, be-cause God gave man a free will the effect of this free will is sin.
Well, I am not part of any "freewill group" as such, and I do not believe that God brings about punishment just because He gave us freewill.
What I do believe is that we reap what we sow, if we use the talents God has given us for evil, then that is what we will reap and if we use them for good, then that too is what we will reap. God isn't some tyrant sitting up there on His throne waiting to punish those who are disobedient. God is like a loving Father, chastising and teaching His children to fashion them after His own character and the character of His Son. However, if they persist in their disobedience to the point that they will not be reproved, and repent, the consequences are that God will eventually leave them to their own devices. That is when Satan steps in and destroys them, and uses those disobedient children to influence others too.
Have you ever read what Paul states about his will?
How he could not do the things he wanted, saying to WILL is present with me but how to perform what I will I find not.
The good that he would do he did no, but that which he hated is that which he did.
Now can any of you free will advocates show me where Paul has free will here?
And if one who was so close to God as Paul was could not by using his free will overcome the law of sin in his members how much harder for those that know not God
Yes, we are in bondage to sin, and yes, even though we might want to do those good things ourselves, we know we can't, it is through the strength of Christ alone that we can become conquerors.
It is obvious though, that we still have the will to actually
want to do those things, we want to go against our natural carnal flesh, which is saying otherwise, and want to choose to follow the way of good, but can't in our own strength, but, in our great insufficiency we can reach out to Christ and He will give us the strength to put action to those wants. We choose to respond to the drawing process of God, even though our whole being is saying otherwise, we want to have our hearts of stone changed to hearts of flesh, God doesn't do this without our wanting to have it done.
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Rom 8:7-8
We are told to "
seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness....." not to let God drag us to Him because we cannot freely decide for ourselves to "seek" for Him.
Part of God drawing us to Him, gives us the opportunity to make a moral judgement, to taste and see that the Lord is good. We are not compelled against our will, or forced to search for God and see His goodness, He reveals it to us as we continue to search for Him. We are free at any moment to stop searching, and to cease building our side of the relationship with God.
You might want to read the book of Job again Harlin.
God used Satan for His own purpose, Satan never said look at Job God, it was God who directed Satan to conceder Job.
You seem to think what happen to Job was a bad thing, so to did his 3 friend and we know where that mentality got them.
Satan went to present himself to the Lord, scripture tells us what he does that for:
"....for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night" Rev 12:10
Satan was there accusing the brethren, then God says:
"Hast though considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in all the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God and escheweth evil?" Job 1:8
Satan then states in a round about way that the reason Job fears the Lord is because God has protected him on all sides, and has blessed him greatly. Satan tells God to take away all he has and Job will then curse God.
God then
allows, not causes Satan to take away all that belongs to Job, but tells him that he is not to touch his person. If God had not stopped Satan from touching Job, Satan would have totally destroyed him.
The lesson is, God did
NOT cause that destruction, it was only when His protection was removed that Satan was
permitted to cause any destruction to Job. Yes, God did not interpose, Job was sorely afflicted, and his friends sought to make him acknowledge that his suffering was the result of sin, and cause him to feel under condemnation. They represented his case as that of a great sinner; but the Lord rebuked them for their judgement of Job.
I do not agree with their mentality.
Well you are right about one thing sin cannot exist in His presence.
Did you ever think maybe just maybe it is the sin in every man that is removed at judgment?
Not for a moment, because when Jesus comes a second time, His reward is with Him, to give every man according as his work shall be. Rev 22:12 Plus, why would God wait until the judgement to remove mans sins when He can do that now?
Man has a will, but mans will is not free, according to Paul the will is held in bondage to the law of sin and if you believe what Paul says how can you believe your will is free?
"And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" John 8:32
If Christ had not made atonement for mankind, after the fall Satan would have forever held them under the bondage of sin. However, since Jesus has come to set us free, freewill has been restored to mankind again, and we are free from the bondage of sin we are able to willfully through Christ keep the perfect law of liberty.
God Bless,
Harlin