Freewill?

[wmc1982]

Yes!

why do you ask?

you don't believe in eternal punishment?

 

[martymonster]

you don't believe in eternal punishment?

Absolutely not!

I used to, untill I was given eyes to see and ears to hear!

 

[wmc1982]

Absolutely not!

I used to, untill I was given eyes to see and ears to hear!

I haven't heard of many people believing that before. Seems to me the scriptures are clear on eternal punishment.

What caused you to believe this? I am just curious.

 

[martymonster]

I haven't heard of many people believing that before. Seems to me the scriptures are clear on eternal punishment.

What caused you to believe this? I am just curious.

I did not just have someone tell Me and then I believed it, I did alot of research on it first.

the thing that lead me to believe that it was absolutely true, was that so many things in the rest of the bible did not make sense otherwise.

also after I came to believe it, my understanding of God's word increased out of sight (for me that is) and I could see what was actually being said.

Jesus's words are not simple take them at face value, they are hidden treasures for those who really want them!

Jesus said himself that His words were hidden from the masses that they might understand and turn and be saved!

Now if there was any such thing as eternal torment in Hell, and God Himself says that He is not willing any should perish, doesn't strike you as bit odd that Christ should say such a thing?

The gospel is completely different from what we have been lead to believe, it is also much more incredible!

the truth does not cause licence to sin!


Hope that answers your question!

 

[Evergreen48]

I'm talking about you can know the mind of God, because speaks His mind all through the bible!

not being able to know the mind of God is another man made doctrine!

Having the mind of Christ is a different thing again.

So, where in the Bible does it say what happens to a five year old who does not choose Christ and then dies?
We can know the mind of God on the things which our finite minds can comprehend. I don't know about you, but as for myself, I have never talked with anyone who has 'been there, done that' and returned to tell about it, or read in the Bible exactly what happens to a person of any age when they die, other than 'the flesh returns to the dust from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it'. And that is rather nondescript, wouldn't you say?

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?"

 

[Pneuma3]

Hello,

Only those with a false understanding of the character of God would believe such.

You can’t be serious here brother. God is LOVE and LOVE never fails and God so LOVED the whole world. That His character Harlin, not the one painted by the eternal tomentists and aniholationists, which do not but malign His character.
What part of LOVE NEVER FAILS do people not understand?

It is not God who causes the "punishment" when someone disobeys His laws, this happens as a natural result of God having to withdraw His Spirit from a person when they choose to commit sin.

According to the free will group it is God who causes the punishment. It’s called cause and effect, be-cause God gave man a free will the effect of this free will is sin.

Have you ever read what Paul states about his will?

How he could not do the things he wanted, saying to WILL is present with me but how to perform what I will I find not.

The good that he would do he did no, but that which he hated is that which he did.

Now can any of you free will advocates show me where Paul has free will here?

And if one who was so close to God as Paul was could not by using his free will overcome the law of sin in his members how much harder for those that know not God.

Satan can then however, move in and wreck havoc in that persons life ie: look at the story of Job, this makes if very clear who it is who causes the destruction in Job's life. It was God who had placed a protective hedge around Job, and yet when God removed that protection to test Job and his loyalty, Satan moved in and worked wickedly for Job's destruction.

It was God in His mercy who preserved Job's life, if He hadn't Satan would have taken that too.

You might want to read the book of Job again Harlin.
God used Satan for His own purpose, Satan never said look at Job God, it was God who directed Satan to conceder Job.
You seem to think what happen to Job was a bad thing, so to did his 3 friend and we know where that mentality got them.

God is a God of love %100 of the time, but to sin He is a consuming fire, only those who choose to cling to their sins will in the end be destroyed when God reveals Himself, sin can not exist in the presence of a Holy God.

Well you are right about one thing sin cannot exist in His presence.
Did you ever think maybe just maybe it is the sin in every man that is removed at judgment?

All are free to choose whether to put their sins away or to continue in them.

Well you better give scripture for such a statement brother, because Paul shows us the law of sin in our members holds our will in bondage and the good things we will to do we cannot do but the things that we don’t want to do are the things we do.

Man has a will, but mans will is not free, according to Paul the will is held in bondage to the law of sin and if you believe what Paul says how can you believe your will is free?

 

[Pneuma3]

I haven't heard of many people believing that before. Seems to me the scriptures are clear on eternal punishment.

What caused you to believe this? I am just curious.

well stick around here for a little while wmc1982 and your sure to meet a few more of us.

 

[martymonster]

So, where in the Bible does it say what happens to a five year old who does not choose Christ and then dies?
We can know the mind of God on the things which our finite minds can comprehend. I don't know about you, but as for myself, I have never talked with anyone who has 'been there, done that' and returned to tell about it, or read in the Bible exactly what happens to a person of any age when they die, other than 'the flesh returns to the dust from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it'. And that is rather nondescript, wouldn't you say?

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?"

Knowing God's mind on certain things is not the same as being able to comprehend what He can comprehend!

If I speak my mind, then you know my mind on that particular thing!

it's really not that complicated!

 

[Evergreen48]

Knowing God's mind on certain things is not the same as being able to comprehend what He can comprehend!

If I speak my mind, then you know my mind on that particular thing!

it's really not that complicated!

Marty, I don't think you know what you are talking about. And I'm sure I don't either.

 

[martymonster]

Marty, I don't think you know what you are talking about. And I'm sure I don't either.

Care to explain why, or is it just because you don't understand so you've decided just because you can't no one can?

 

[Soul Searcher]

Personally I think the sermon on the mount tells us a lot about the mind of God.

 

[martymonster]

Personally I think the sermon on the mount tells us a lot about the mind of God.

exactly!

not to mention everything else that He has ever said in the entirety of the bible!

 

[hairettic]

you don't believe in eternal punishment?

O look another!

 

[martymonster]

O look another!

Pray for Him that his eyes may be opened!

 

[elman]

Pray for Him that his eyes may be opened!

Against his will?

 

[Soul Searcher]

O look another!

We're like coackroaches crawling out from everywhere

 

[hairettic]

coackroaches??? I... am not sure.... I like ...... cockroaches! Is this a metaphor? Or can you beam me up scotty?

 

[Soul Searcher]

Metaphor... ummm .... yes that's it... metaphor first there was one or two and now they are showing up in bunches

 

[hairettic]

So I don't get beamed up.

 

[Soul Searcher]

So I don't get beamed up.

If you are willing to assume the risk, seems the transporters have developed freewill.