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Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

Drudgeon

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Search long enough on the internet, and you'll find screeds against just about anything. Well written as to grammar and syntax though they may be, they are riddled with misconceptions. Here's one I found after a very quick search:

Why I Left the Southern Baptist Convention

To use Skip's words from above: "the writer backs up his charges and speaks from a first-person point of view. The critic may not like the conclusions, but they cannot be rejected out of hand in view of the testimonies to just that effect." In light of these seemingly damning charges, I could devote my life to handing out tracts and annoying people on the internet about the evil SBC and their hellbound followers, or I could take the much more responsible road and accept the possibility that this man is wrong or, at worst, that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I don't want to derail the thread, but a lot of people here get caught up in "someone said it on the internet so it must be true" nonsense, and I'm nothing if not a lover of education.

You're welcome,
Drudgeon
 
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gamewell45

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It would appear that the author would not agree with your rationale and charges. I concur with the author as well.
 
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Simpleman25

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Brilliant post sir!

Thank you for not choking us on a point by point breakdown of your personal opinion on the SBC.
 
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duane washum

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Skip,
It is difficult for me to fathom Simpleman's uses of a dibilitating disease that has sadly broken the hearts of many family members, as one of his attack weapons, all for the sake of satisfying the hatred in his heart toward those who disagree with him. What is equally difficult for me to fathom is this website's tolerance of such matters.

For any readers who wish to read more about the "kill the messenger" concept employed by men such as those whose tactics are readily obvious on this thread, they might want to take a look at this section in the Ephesians 5:11 - EMFJ Discussion Board:
Ephesians 5:11 - Masonic Discussion Board: "Kill The Messenger"
 
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duane washum

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Interesting. You certainly had no problem with the critique on the SBC, though, right? Oh yeah, I forgot. Since that is the only organization I know Skip to be a member of, it is the SBC you have decided to call a cult.

Since you have made that accusation numerous times, would you please spell out your supposed reasons that you feel the Southern Baptist Convention is a cult?

Would really like to know, because one of your "brothers" at another venue has already determined that any group which accepts only one True and Living God, thus rejecting all the false gods, is a cult. Is that your same position, Simple, simply speaking?
 
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Skip Sampson

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duane washum said:
It is difficult for me to fathom Simpleman's uses of a dibilitating disease that has sadly broken the hearts of many family members, as one of his attack weapons
It's not difficult for me: he's a Freemason and you are an ex-Mason. As long as you exist you are living testimony to the evils of Freemasonry, a testimony they cannot tolerate. Thus, any weapon will do.


There are Simpleman25's in all places where evil exists and they do anything they can to bring down those who testify against it. It's all they know. Consider this: His context was different, but his view of tolerance is perfectly applicable to the current discussion, because Freemasonry is only tolerant of us because it has no choice. Our Masonic correspondents dare not discuss openly here, so they run to a moderated hiding place to avoid the criticism of what they believe in.

We also need to remember John 15:18, because it shows us the genesis of their feelings toward us. In Christ, Skip.
 
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Skip Sampson

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The unbeliever would have no chance of entering and the Christian would not need to state his deeds, as he would already have met the entrance requirements. Cordially, Skip.
 
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duane washum

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My Protector and my Rock is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And, in spite of your disdain for it, I have no problem with seeking Him out when in need.
 
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Simpleman25

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Let me help you.

I never said whether I agreed or not with the claim against the SBC. The poster was using that as an example. Your failure to see that doesn't surprise me in the least.

The claim that I have issue with the SBC is absurd. Since I've never made negative comments about them I feel no need to carry on with your lies.
 
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Drudgeon

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What misconceptions did the article contain? Cordially, Skip.

Skip, as you know, thorough explanations of the mistakes of anti-masons can be found all over the internet. I have no desire to endlessly rehash arguments with you. I know you'll count this as scoring points in the ridiculous game you're playing. You have my blessing! So since you're going to continue these ridiculous objections, allow me to respond in kind: Did you read the link I posted? In light off that evidence, who will you be forsaking, God or the SBC?
 
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Drudgeon

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Duane, I don't understand the anger at my posting of the SBC link. I thought fighting supposed heresy was your thing? Maybe there is something infuriating about accusing good men of evil based on an interpretation of scripture that is not universal. All I can say is welcome to our world .
 
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Drudgeon

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One of the things I love about being in the philosophy section is that much of the readership here are well aware of rhetorical devices and logical fallacies. To my non-masonic friends, have you noticed the anti-masons in this thread insulting masons and then playing the martyr/persecution card when a mason finally responds in anger? I'm curious as to whether those outside the debate see this, or whether this is just my bias.
 
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americanvet

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For the record if a man decides to leave the Masonic lodge I have no issue with him as another poster has implied. The Masons with Christian icons have repeatedly stated their belief in Christ in this thread and throughout the site. For those of you who have seen our post you know this. To imply that we don't believe in a God we profess means we could imply the same about them. However, that would not comply with the rules of this site which as a member of I agreed to follow.
 
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Skip Sampson

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Drudgeon said:
So since you're going to continue these ridiculous objections,
What objections? You claimed that articles such as you had cited contained misconceptions, so I asked you what they were. It is typical of Masons to make claims they simply cannot back up, as you have just showed us. Next time, before you accuse someone, make sure you can back it up with facts instead of generalized opinions.

Did you read the link I posted? In light off that evidence, who will you be forsaking, God or the SBC?
As to the first, yes I did; as to the second, neither. The man expressed his own viewpoint and his conclusions are his own. Unlike a GL, the SBC does not see itself as a doctrinal authority whose opinions are binding upon its member churches. The churches are autonomous and the members part of the priesthood of the believer. I'd say the average Southern Baptist remains unconcerned with what the SBC leadership does beyond its mission efforts. Cordially, Skip.
 
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Simpleman25

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generalized opinions


Without generalized opinions you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.



Unlike a GL, the SBC does not see itself as a doctrinal authority whose opinions are binding upon its member churches.


This is where you keep getting it wrong. Over and over again.

I'm a member of multiple lodges in two states. In Oklahoma, for instance, I belong to two lodges. My home lodge is the one I've spoken about. Through our investigation of the candidate, we verify whether or not he's a Christian. This lodge has been here for decades operating under the banner of the OK GL. This lodge is made up entirely of Christians.

My other membership is in a larger community in OK. As far as I'm aware they follow the guidelines of the state GL. That lodge is also made up entirely of Christians. Not by design, like my home lodge.

I know what lodge GL's say. Been there, read that. I also know it's naive to think that men don't talk about politics or religion in the lodge. It's ludicrous to think all these men adhere to that rule all the time. I've stated that the meeting that led me to run for public office was held in my lodge hall. We have a smaller in house lodge that meets for coffee. Mostly retired men. They asked me to one of their stated meetings to ask me to run for office.

It amazes me that those not in masonry continue to question the validity of my comments.
 
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Skip Sampson

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Simpleman25 said:
Without generalized opinions you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Untrue. Specific data upon which generalized opinions are based would be nice to see. The Masons on this forum are long on opinion and very short on facts.


Through our investigation of the candidate, we verify whether or not he's a Christian. ... This lodge is made up entirely of Christians.
At issue is whether or not your practice is allowed under OK GL rules. Here's what your GL has stated:
Do you believe in God?
No atheist can be a Mason. Masons do not care what your individual faith is -- that is a question between you and your God -- but we do require that a that a man believe in a Supreme Being. (OK GL website)
You claim to have violated this, but will not provide the particulars of your lodge so we can see what the GL would say, and do, about it. Your GL has the authority to arrest charters, try Masons and many other legal duties. The very existence of your home lodge is due to GL approval of it, both at the start and at present. Your point seems to be that they turn a blind eye toward such rule violations and I'd like to find out if that's true. If it is, they are lying.


But the fact that you know you are in the wrong is highlighted by this statement:
Simpleman25 said:
My other membership is in a larger community in OK. As far as I'm aware they follow the guidelines of the state GL.
Were the GL as unconcerned as you claim, I see no reason why you would be afraid to have the data forwarded to them for their review. It would indeed be interesting to see if the GL would follow its' own guidelines.

But consider: your lodge is supposedly chartered by the OK GL. In jurisdictions with which I am familiar, the installation of the WM includes a vow from the new WM similar to this: I do not have the OK Constitution, but your lodge should. Did your WM make a similar vow upon his installation? If so, is he not in violation of that vow if the OK GL rule is as I have above-stated? What does that say about his honor and integrity as a Mason?

More to the point, your entire lodge appear to be guilty of unMasonic conduct as you discriminate against nonChristians in terms of membership. Let's see if other Masons chime in publicly on that issue.

Simpleman25 said:
we verify whether or not he's a Christian. ... That lodge is also made up entirely of Christians.
Something to ponder: how do you know they're Christians? And why do you find it necessary to verify their status in your home lodge but not in the other one? Isn't their word good enough? If one of them regularly attended a synagogue, would you have to change your mind and boot them out? By what mechanism would that happen?

simpleman25 said:
I also know it's naive to think that men don't talk about politics or religion in the lodge. It's ludicrous to think all these men adhere to that rule all the time.
Indeed; you get points for honesty. Personally, I think religion is taught all the time while the lodge is open. As to the rest, I'd assumed the prohibition was generally enforced while the lodge was open, but pretty much ignored after it was closed and the brethren were at refreshment, or chillin', so to speak.


Simpleman25 said:
It amazes me that those not in masonry continue to question the validity of my comments.
I merely question why you won't put your claims to the test. As to your apparent violations of GL rules, I believe what you have said and certainly hope it boomerangs back on you. Cordially, Skip.
 
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LilLamb219

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MOD HAT ON


I've done a minor thread clean up. Please, when you post, address the topic and not the member, that way flaming can be avoided. If you notice your post missing it responded to a post that was deleted and trickled down from there.

MOD HAT OFF


Edit - a further clean up was done.
 
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